HOST: The Prime Minister Julia Gillard says the decision from Fair Work Australia gives certainty to the travelling public.She's also denied newspaper reports that Qantas chief, Alan Joyce tried to contact her hours before he grounded Qantas to say he would be willing to keep the planes in the sky if the Government intervened directly in the dispute.
The Prime Minister is speaking here to our reporter Stephen Dziedzic.PM: Well, arrangements are being made by Qantas now to put planes back in the sky so that will happen during the course of today. That is happening because last night the industrial umpire terminated industrial action.That happened because the Government took the issue to the industrial umpire so we have succeeded in what we wanted - getting planes back in the sky, workers back to work and that is a win for the travelling public that has been so inconvenienced by all of this over Melbourne Cup weekend and a win for the million people who work in tourism in Australia.HOST: Why didn't the Government directly order the end of industrial action instead of going to Fair Work Australia?PM: There is a section in the Fair Work Act, Section 431 that enables a minister to make a declaration. That section has never been used in Australian industrial history, not once, not ever and if we had used that section we would have ended up in a circumstance of legal uncertainty where the minister's declaration could have been taken to the courts with all of the time delays and uncertainties that would have meant for Qantas, its employees and the travelling public.What we chose to do was to take the matter to the industrial umpire and our application has been granted, industrial action is at an end.HOST: But why, why legal uncertainty? Why is this section 431 written into the Act if it can't be used?PM: Well, it has been in industrial law for a long period of time and never been used in industrial relations history. So using a section that has never been used before would have put us in a world of legal doubt. Instead we took the course that was going to get the matter before the industrial umpire and that has succeeded to do exactly what we wanted it to do - to get industrial action ended and the planes back in the sky.HOST: But if there are passengers being inconvenienced, millions of dollars every hour that the planes are grounded, why not go to the section that seems to give you the quickest resolution possible?PM: Well, you're making an error in saying the quickest resolution possible because you are not factoring in the prospect that the ministerial declaration would then have been the subject of legal proceedings with all of the uncertainty that that would have meant.HOST: Prime Minister, did Alan Joyce try to contact your office in the hours before his 5pm announcement on Saturday?PM: Alan Joyce will make clear later today that those reports in today's newspapers are misleading. Already Qantas has contacted my office this morning to say those reports are misleading.Alan Joyce contacted the Minister for Transport around 2pm on Saturday and said that he was going to ground the planes at 5pm. I want to make it clear my view is that Qantas did take an extreme step on Saturday when it had other options open to it including making the same application to the industrial umpire that the Government made which has resulted in the end of industrial action and planes going back to doing what they should be doing - flying passengers around.HOST: So there was no attempt from Mr Joyce to contact your office? Have you checked with your office staff on this?PM: Of course I have and Alan Joyce did contact my chief of staff. He did not make a request to speak to me about these matters. He understood that I was at CHOGM. But in any event he had made it crystal clear to the Minister for Transport that he would be grounding the planes at 5pm - no ifs, no buts.HOST: When you drafted the Fair Work Act did you anticipate that a company would be able to self-sabotage itself in order to end a protracted industrial dispute?PM: I anticipated that companies may engage in lockouts so we drafted the act to deal with industrial action that could harm the national economy and the section of the Act that we drafted has worked to end industrial action, as it should.HOST: But it has ended it after enormous cost and after a large number of passengers, thousands of passengers have been grounded for a substantial amount of time. Did you anticipate that this is a tactic that could be used and do you think that we are going to see a troubling precedent being used here?PM: I think you are making an error to suggest that this is the first time that we've seen lockouts happen in Australian industrial history. That is not true. Under earlier versions of industrial relations law before the Fair Work Act, you could see industrial disputation with big costs and consequences and you could see the industrial umpire ending that disputation because it could damage the national economy.The Fair Work Act has worked exactly as it should in this case. We took an application to the industrial umpire, the industrial umpire has ended this damaging industrial action. Now it will be up to the parties, Qantas and the unions, to sort themselves out over the next 21 days and if they can't sort themselves out the industrial umpire will impose a solution upon them.HOST: Business groups argue that this was the showdown that we had to have, that because they are constrained under the Fair Work Act, they don't have the flexibility that they need, that we've got a situation upon us now where companies will have to be taking steps like this in order to get the unions on side. Do you accept that analysis?PM: Frankly, the analysis you've just put to me is complete nonsense, complete nonsense. Under the Fair Work Act we are seeing industrial disputes going down, they are not going up. So yes, we've had a high profile dispute this weekend, I understand that but we are not across the nation seeing industrial disputes go up.HOST: But business leaders are warning, Prime Minister, that we are going to see more disputes like this because there has been a rumble of uncertainty for some time on this.PM: Well, that is complete nonsense. Everybody knows their legal position under the Fair Work Act. Industrial disputes have not been going up under the Fair Work Act. The Fair Work Act took away the hated WorkChoices legislation because that enabled workers to be ripped off.Some of the workers most at risk in our society, to walk into work one day and be told that their pay was going to be cut, that they weren't going to get their penalty rates any more, their overtime was gone, that they'd lose public holidays and other conditions that they relied upon. That was wrong and the Fair Work Act ended that.On industrial action, before the Fair Work Act and now it was possible for unions to take protected industrial action. Before the Fair Work Act and now it was possible for employers to lock workers out so it was possible to see the kind of industrial disputation we've seen this weekend.Fair Work Australia has done what it should do and ended that industrial action. But I do want to make this very clear - I believe the action that Qantas took on Saturday was extreme. On Friday Qantas was reassuring that they were negotiating the dispute and obviously they were doing that because they saw the prospects of getting to a negotiated settlement. Then on Saturday at 2pm with very little warning to Government or any member of the travelling public, Qantas grounded the planes.They did that in circumstances where they had other options open to them. They could have taken exactly the same application to the industrial umpire the Government took and got industrial action brought to an end. They could have gone to the industrial umpire and sought assistance with arbitrating the dispute, working together with the industrial umpire to get it resolved.Instead they took the action with very little notice to anyone of grounding the planes and stranding passengers around Australia and the world.HOST: One of the main actors in this, Tony Sheldon from the TWU is a candidate for the ALP national presidency. Did the Government dither on this because it didn't want to offend powerful union allies?PM: What a very silly suggestion. The Government went to Fair Work Australia, got industrial action ended, everyone's industrial action - the unions' industrial action, Qantas's lockout.