HOST: Visiting us in the Hunter today, the Prime Minister Julia Gillard, she joins us in studio. Good morning.
PM: Good morning.
HOST: This is a traditional Labor stronghold, we've been having the debate prior to your arrival this morning, are you going to receive widespread support today, or a great deal of negativity towards your new tax?
PM: Well, I'm happy to take it as it comes and I'm happy to be out there speaking to people about what this means to them and their family. There's been a lot of misrepresentation here, a lot of fear generated. Australians are very smart people, they'll be thinking about it, they'll be working through the details. I particularly wanted to be talking to people who work in coal mines, there's been a number of very irresponsible claims suggesting that the coal industry was going to shut down. Of course that's not true, there's a strong future for coal mining in this country, it will continue to grow, employment will continue to grow and I want to be out and about telling people about that directly and taking any questions they've got.
HOST: OK, but talk the people of the Hunter through the logic, the specific purpose of this tax is to curtail carbon usage and creation. We are, if you equate coal with carbon, the biggest carbon export port in the world. How can that not have a negative impact on economic growth in this region?
PM: Well, first and foremost the aim of this is to cut carbon pollution. I believe climate change is real, it's caused by human activity, it's caused by carbon pollution and we've got to cut it. The aim is to cut it by at least -5 per cent by 2020, 160 million tonnes. So, but putting a price on carbon we'll see the behaviour of around 500 of our biggest polluters change and we will be asking the coal industry to look to do what it can to make its processes cleaner and we've been investing in assisting with cleaner coal.
But, of course, we'll still mine coal and we'll still export it overseas. Other nations will continue to buy Australian coal, even as they too look to grow and to move to a cleaner energy future.
HOST: Again, though, logically does that not mean at best a contraction, at worst a reduction, in local industry?
PM: I don't see how that logically follows at all. What we're talking about-
HOST: -Well, if China takes less of our coal-
PM:-Let's go to the question to China and there's no suggestion that it will take less. China is a rapidly growing country; it's been through a big period of industrialisation and that's going to continue, it's on a journey of lifting hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. So, China's going to continue to grow and consume coal. I will consume more energy from all sources-
HOST: -Carbon still gets burnt, Prime Minister-
PM: -But let me actually talk to you about what's being achieved in China. So, they're growing as a nation, with many people coming out of poverty, but China itself is aiming to look for cleaner energy source too - so growing, still taking coal, but looking for cleaner energy sources, and against a business as usual case, they are looking to cut their emissions by 22 per cent in 2020, against a business as usual case, we are looking to cut out emissions by 23 per cent, or -5 per cent, against the 2000 base.
So, the world is changing, but the world will still have a role for coal. So, there will still be coal mining here and the prosperity that comes from it.
HOST: When you're talking to Melbourne or Sydney, that's one equation, but here, just yesterday the Australian Coal Association has launched an advertising campaign, saying 5000 direct mining jobs will be at risk, 18 coal mines at risk of closure if the tax goes ahead. That speaks very directly in this market place, in this part of Australia, in a way that it doesn't in big cities in other areas.
PM: Well, let's directly assess that and can I say this to you: I say the same things in every part of the nation and I'll come back to that in just a moment. I say the same things in every part of the nation and what I say about coal in every part of the nation, is it's got a strong future. Coal prices have doubled in recent years, from around $150 a tonne, to $300 a tonne. Our coal companies are making profits in the order of $1 million per worker, the burden from putting a price on carbon, per tonne, will be less than $2, in circumstances where coal prices have doubled to $300. So, let's be clear about what this means for the industry, big coal companies like Peabodys are engaged in huge new investments in Australia, because they're hard headed business people and they know that there's a good future in mining coal here.
HOST: OK, Ben speaks partially to your point there, in this question, he says: Prime Minister, will a family of seven with a smaller carbon footprint per person than a three person family get compensated as well on electricity costs, as a smaller family. I don't want you to answer that question, what I do want you-
PM: -I can very quickly answer that question.
HOST: It's certainly speaks to the level of confusion as to what it means for the individual.
PM: It does and everybody who wants to know exactly what it means for them should get on our cleanenergyfuture.gov.au website. It will talk to you about tax cuts you're eligible for, it will talk to you about the family payments increases you're eligible for, up to $110 per child and obviously a bigger family have more eligibility under the family payments regime.
And, in terms of the aim here of cutting carbon pollution, something very significant happened yesterday. I know Australians do think that climate change is real and do want to cut carbon pollution and as we've had this debate around the country, both sides of politics have been saying ‘look, we support cutting carbon pollution by five per cent by 2020'. Yesterday Tony Abbott back flipped and walked away from that. yesterday Tony Abbott apparently decided cutting carbon pollution is crap. Yesterday Tony Abbott apparently decided that he's going to bandwagon with Lord Monckton and say this nation should do nothing about cutting carbon pollution.
Well, I think Australians do want to cut carbon pollution. They've got a lot of questions for me about how carbon pricing will work and I'm very happy to be answering them.
HOST: You and others in the government have accused Tony Abbott of being a political animal, of not taking the big picture, of not having a vision for a greener future for Australia. Is not the reverse true; is this not the perfectly awful time for a government in your position to be trying to introduce such complicated and difficult plans?
PM: Let's look at this, hopefully through the prism of the day before Tony Abbott's back flip. The day before both sides of politics were saying that they wanted to cut carbon pollution by five per cent by 2020. So, then if you're going to say let's cut carbon pollution, climate change is real - the question is: do you start soon, or do you start later when it will be harder and do you do it in the most efficient way?
Well, if we're going to get it done, I'm for starting soon and doing it in the most economically efficient way. Up until yesterday, Mr Abbott appeared to be saying start late and do it in the most costly way you can think of, around $720 per family, would be the charge that he's looking for. Yesterday, he now appears to be saying, we'll he doesn't want to be doing anything at all, and he needs to answer for all of that.
HOST: Prime Minister, I know it's been a tough couple of weeks. Are you aware that there making a sitcom about your life from today?
PM: I am aware of that, yes.
HOST: Have you had any input in what life is like at home with Julia and Tim?
PM: I haven't had any input. I have seen Amanda, who will be playing me, in that show Double Take a while back and I thought she was hilarious and did a very good job. I'll be looking forward to seeing it and it may come in handy having a double, because there could be days where that extra commitment I could field her to go and do.
HOST: Evidently there are sex scenes set in the Prime Minister's office?
PM: Lots of work gets done in the Prime Minister's office. Lots and lots of work.
HOST: I will look forward to you vouching for the authenticity or otherwise of the sitcom.
PM: Something tells me that if it's going to be laugh a minute, then it's not going to be very true to real life. But being Prime Minister's a lot of work and a pretty serious job.
HOST: And we appreciate being here to answer our questions in the Hunter today. Enjoy your time here.
PM: Thank you.