HOST: Prime Minister good morning, welcome.
PM: Good morning Barrie
HOST: Well Tony Abbott's talking there about a shattering defeat for Labor off the back of the latest opinion polls. Does that sort of rhetoric make your nervous?
PM: The Leader of the Opposition's grown so arrogant here Barrie that he's forgotten Australia's a democracy. The Australian people will decide the election in 2013. I will go to that election having delivered big reforms to tackle climate change and in health and education with a budget in surplus, having helped people with cost of living pressures and rolling the NBN out around the country. The Leader of the Opposition will go with his plan to bring back Work Choices, to smash the budget surplus, to take money out of education and health and to rip up the NBN. We'll let the Australian people decide.
HOST: The point he makes though that if you were to lose you'd be so demoralised that you give up the fight on a lot of those policies including the price on carbon.
PM: Well all of this seems to me a bit rich Barrie. We've got a Leader of the Opposition who won't tell us basic things about his policies and plans for the nation and he's somehow asking me to speculate about the days beyond the next election. Well I won't do it. I'll keep leading the nation in accordance with my vision for this country's future, enhancing our prosperity and using that prosperity to bring new opportunities to every Australian- new choices in life, new education opportunities, a better chance and a better start for Australian kids.
HOST: But is it unreasonable though to ask what you would do on a carbon price if the Coalition was to win the election because that would surely be seen, if there's ever going to be an issue at the next election that would be almost the referendum issue, it would be that. Would you not regard that as a clear mandate for Tony Abbott's policy over yours?
PM: I'm not going to speculate about the next election and Barrie by the time of the next election carbon pricing will be in place, we will be tackling this big challenge of climate change, we will be moving towards a cleaner energy future and Australians can judge it then. And of course we'll continue to be talking about and campaigning on carbon pricing, but I suspect the next election will be about a lot more, Barrie. It will be about the Leader of the Opposition's plans to return Work Choices, it'll be about keeping the economy strong, which is what I'll be advocating. It will be about enhancing opportunities for Australians which is what the Government will be delivering and what we will continue to put before the nation for their judgement.
HOST: But if you ask that question of Bob Brown he says ‘Well I'll stick with what my constituents want', in other words ‘I will go on supporting a carbon price'. So would that be your position or do you accept the Government's mandate?
PM: Barrie, every day I'm in politics I'll do what's right for the nation's future. But I'm not going to sit here two years before the next election allowing Mr Abbott to say the debate is about the days beyond the next election. The debate is about right here, right now and whether or not our nation is up to the challenge of tackling climate change and pricing carbon. And Mr Abbott in that debate has been deliberately misleading the Australian people. For example, he's claimed more than 20 times that petrol prices would go up as a result of pricing carbon and I'm in a position today to say to you petrol prices will not be touched by carbon pricing. Families, tradies, small business people do not have to worry about a petrol price increase. So let's have a debate on the facts about carbon pricing right now.
HOST: And is that forever? That, including when it transfers onto an ETS?
PM: The design of this scheme is that petrol pricing- petrol will be out now and out for the future. And to explain that to you Barrie, I represent an outer urban electorate, I know what it's like for people to have no choice but to jump in their cars to get places and I do too want to acknowledge the role played here by Tony Windsor. He has put forward a powerful case for people in country Australian who've got no choice but to jump in their cars to get places and I hear that all the time from regional members like Warren Snowdon in the Northern Territory who I spent some time with last week. So we are not going to have petrol included in the scheme now or in the future.
HOST: Okay, so Tony Windsor's happy but is this one in the eye for Bob Brown and the Greens?
PM: Well we are working to finalise the details of carbon pricing. It will be a different package from the carbon pollution reduction scheme. It will be a package focused on doing the right thing by our environment-
HOST: But we know that petrol's out. How have the Greens taken to that?
PM: Well the scheme overall, and we're working to finalise it still Barrie, so there are still some discussions and conversations to come, but the package when you see it as a whole, when we're in a position to announce every detail, I believe will stack up to the test of doing the right thing by our environment, the right thing by our economy and the jobs that Australians have and the right thing by Australian families struggling with cost of living pressures who will get the benefits of tax cuts, payment increases and will not see petrol prices increase as a result of pricing carbon.
HOST: But the Greens and others have said in the past that petrol's a bit pollutant. It takes a fair bit of the purity out of the system?
PM: Well I think when all of the details are available the package should be judged as a whole. But I do believe it's good news for Australian families and small businesses, tradies, it's good news for people in outer urban communities and particularly in regional communities that petrol is not going to be included in this scheme.
HOST: Now what of the point that GeorgeMegalogenis raised about these quarterly payments to the self-funded retirees and the pensioners, when will that kick in?
PM: Well what we've said today is self-funded retirees who have got a Commonwealth Health Care Card will get the same assistance as pensioners. We will deliver that quarterly, they get quarterly supplements from the Government -
HOST: But starting when?
PM: - and it will be added in.
HOST: Starting when?
PM: It will be started as the carbon pricing scheme is started.
HOST: So from July next year? You don't feel you need to deliver it perhaps three months ahead of time so that they've got the money there when the first bills start to hit the table?
PM: Well people will be able to see all of the dates of delivery, but the ongoing mechanism will be the quarterly supplement.
HOST: And the same with the tax cuts, they'll come in at the same time?
PM: Well we have said that Australians will get the benefit of tax cuts, you'll see all of these details, Barrie, after carbon pricing is finalised. This is a major reform, a big scheme, we're still working to get every detail right but the principles here that Australian families can rely on - petrol will not be covered in the scheme, households will be compensated, nine out of ten households will receive tax cuts or payment increases or a combination of both. Today we've confirmed the way in which self-funded retirees with Commonwealth Health Care Cards will get assisted.
HOST: So all of the details then are how far away? A week or so?
PM: Barrie I'm not here to confirm the date, we're working hard to finalise the scheme.
HOST: Why did you re-open the debate about when a tax is a tax, surely that could not have been helpful?
PM: I was trying to make a broader point Barrie, and you know, people can quibble with the words and you know, that's politics, day by day. But the important point under all of this is whatever terminology you use, whether you talk about a fixed price scheme, whether you talk about a fixed price scheme that works effectively like a tax or whether you just call it a carbon tax. Whatever words you use to describe it, that will be for a fixed period of time. It will be temporary and the emissions trading scheme, which I support, John Howard supported, Malcolm Turnbull supported. The emissions trading scheme will be permanent.
HOST: But what you said is that Tony Abbott calls it a tax when in fact everybody calls it a tax. You've called it a tax.
PM: And I'm happy to say- yes I have called it a tax. I was seeking to make a point that Tony Abbott is out there misleading the Australian people about a set of fundamentals here. As Leader of the Opposition he certainly believes in that word - opposition, Barrie. And what he is doing in this debate is trying to persuade Australians that a carbon tax will be permanent - that's not true. He's been trying to persuade Australians that petrol prices will go up - that's not true. He's been trying to persuade Australians that they won't get assistance - nine out of ten households will get tax cuts or payment benefits or both. And he's been trying to say to Australians somehow he's got a magic pudding and everything he does comes for free. Well it doesn't, it comes at a cost of $720 a year. Let's get the facts on the table.
HOST: Another rally in Sydney yesterday, we noticed that the ‘ditch the witch' placard got another run. There were people turning up with Pinocchio noses and so on, it's all pretty charming stuff. How do you feel when you see that?
PM: I've seen the Leader of the Opposition go to a rally attended by Pauline Hanson. I've seen the Leader of the Opposition open a conference that Lord Monckton was speaking at. Not much about the modern Liberal Party surprises me Barrie.
HOST: But does it seem though for you, is it a lack of respect for the office when these sorts of events are held? Do you see it that way?
PM: I think that in the contemporary political debate and I'm not talking about people who go and hold placards at rallies, I'm making a broader point. I think in the contemporary political debate we've seen a bit of a lack of respect for reason, for that fact that we are a nation of reason, a community of reason. We've dealt with big reforms in the past, tough reforms, hard reforms by having a discussion nationally based on the facts. We're still up to doing that. As a nation we can get that done, we'll get it done in relation to carbon pricing and do the right thing to make sure we cut carbon pollution, look after our environment and have the clean energy economy we need for our future prosperity. That does require people to get the facts on the table.
HOST: We'll you're about to put the facts on the table on carbon pricing. That wait is almost over but there are others where the wait still goes on. So let's go to them one by one. The mining tax, now that's still not legislated, what's the timetable for that?
PM: Well Barrie I'm not going to allow you to characterise that as something we're somehow waiting. We are going through an appropriate process. On the day I put my hand out to the big miners in this country and shook hands and said ‘That's a deal', I decided that every step that we needed to take to bring the mining tax into reality would be taken with the maximum consultation. And I don't make any apologies for having had a policy transition group that laboured over a number of months and included people, draft legislation which people will now have the opportunity to respond to. We're going to go through all of that process, get the legislation into the Parliament and deliver the outcome on time, which is in the middle of next year at the start of the next financial year.
HOST: Well I think we can characterise the asylum seekers deal with Malaysia as something that we're waiting on because that was announced some weeks ago - still waiting?
PM: Look, the approach I took there was when I was in a position to signal to the nation, our nation, that we were in discussions with Malaysia about this innovative proposition to break the people smugglers business model and to get 4000 more genuine refugees to our nation. I decided when I was in a position to tell Australia about that and to have Prime Minister Najib of Malaysia tell Malaysia about that, that we should do it. So we put out a joint statement, very transparent, this is what we're trying to achieve. Now we're in advanced discussions about achieving it.
HOST: And waiting for how long, weeks, months?
PM: Well we are in advanced discussions, we're working with Malaysia and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees as we always said we would.
HOST: So it could be weeks?
PM: Well Barrie, you're not going to be able to get a timeframe out of me. We're working to deliver this with Malaysia and we're in very advanced discussions.
HOST: A lot of people behind you in the Parliament would probably like an answer to that right now?
PM: Well Barrie this is taking the time necessary to get the details right and to have the appropriate discussions with Malaysia and with UNHCR, the International Commissioner for Refugees.
HOST: Okay, the resumption of the live cattle trade to Indonesia, I presume that is still your short or medium term objective? How long away will that be?
PM: It's certainly my objective to resume this trade with the animal welfare issues addressed. And Barrie let's just go back and explain why we are in the position we are today. We, without suspending the trade, we could not have said to Australians that we had a circumstance where Australian cattle going on boats to Indonesia would not end up being subject to the kind of cruelty we saw on Four Corners. So we had to suspend the trade so that we didn't risk a repetition of that kind of cruelty.
Now I've spoken to people in industry and they've said to me they don't want to see their cattle treated like that. Certainly Australian's don't want to see animals treated like that. But the aim here is to resume the trade as soon as possible with the animal welfare guarantees in place. That's what we're working to do, we won't wait one extra day, we are absolutely working full-bore on that. In the meantime we are providing some short term assistance to people in the industry who need that assistance right now.
HOST: But those in the industry right now whose livelihood depends on this, they really need a clearer signal than that about how long they need to wait before they can resume their business?
PM: Those in the industry need two signals. They need a signal from me that it's the objective of this Government to resume the trade as soon as we possibly can with the animal welfare concerns catered for and I can certainly signal that to the industry. The other signal they need, Barrie, is that this is going to be an industry for the long term and it can only be an industry for the long term if we get the animal welfare issues right now. The worst thing for this industry would be to resume and just have this problem again in 12 months time and then in two years time and then in three years time. We've got to fix it now, get the tracking and tracing in place now so people can be reassured about animal welfare standards and that is what we'll guarantee when we resume the trade which we are aiming to do as quickly as possible, that it will be a sustained trade for the long term.
HOST: Now you've thrown Work Choices in, clearly you've decided that that's going to be an issue at the next election. But surely with issues like this there comes a time when all sorts of prescriptions have to be reviewed. There's a lot of pressure coming on from small business, they want it reviewed. What's wrong with both sides of politics having a fresh look at it?
PM: It's not me who's thrown Work Choices in Barrie, it's a combination of Peter Reith and Nick Minchin and Eric Abetz and I think Malcolm Turnbull was out having a bit of a talk about it.
HOST: They're not talking Work Choices, they're just saying tweaking it a bit to take care of some of the concerns that small business have.
PM: Barrie, Work Choices isn't just a name, Work Choices is a policy about making it easier to sack people. About ripping away basic conditions like penalty rates and overtime. Already we've had Liberal Party spokespeople say ‘Yep we want to make it easier to sack people'. That's what happens when they're talking about unfair dismissal laws, all of that's a pretty way of saying - you can get sacked, you can get sacked unfairly, get no remedy, no ability to raise the issue at all - too bad you've just lost your job, that's it for you and your family. That's what they're talking about. And we know from Work Choices it starts with talking about sacking people more easily and it ends with penalty rate and overtime rip offs that cost real people, real money.
Under Work Choices casual and part time sales assistants, the kind of work a lot of women do, their pay packets were hit by 12%. Working women, full time working, those on Work Choices agreements were getting $87 less a week than those on Collective Agreements, the kind of agreements I support. Real people with real families talking about real money and it is the Liberal Party that is hankering for a return to this policy. The debate they've just had at their national conference, Peter Reith versus Alan Stockdale- Peter Reith wanted them to be honest about returning to Work Choices, Alan Stockdale wanted to return to Work Choices but not talk about it. Common underlying theme here: let's go back to Work Choices.
HOST: Andrew Wilkie during the week said that when he wrote up the agreement with the Government he had them change the wording because it was an agreement between him and Labor and he said ‘No, this is an agreement between me and Julia Gillard'. Does that make you feel a little more secure because that's the way the Independents see this agreement?
PM: Look my leadership of the Labor Party is not ultimately about how the Independents see their agreements with me or with the Labor Party. It's more about my leadership and my vision for the country and my Labor colleagues are working with me to deliver our vision of a strong economy, keeping our economy strong understanding that even as our economy is strong there are many families who feel they don't get the benefits in their daily lives of that strong economy. That's why our vision is keeping the economy strong but sharing the benefits and opportunities that should come with that strong economy with all Australians.
HOST: The other thing that he said that if you went he'd be hard pressed to support a successor. Now I guess that's a compliment for you, but it doesn't say much for the rest of them?
PM: Barrie, I'll let you get intrigued by all of this, I'm not intrigued by all of it. My daily interest is in leading the nation in this period of economic transformation, making sure we share the benefits of prosperity and making sure too that we are up to dealing with the challenges of the future. We've got a strong economy, there will never be a better time to tackle climate change than right now. It's what we need to do to cut carbon pollution, have a better environmental future and a better economic future. We can't get left behind as the world moves to clean energy jobs. Now is it tough? Yep, you betcha it's tough. Am I determined? Absolutely, we're going to get this done Barrie.
HOST: Thanks for coming in this morning.
PM: Thank you.