BONGIORNO: Good morning Prime Minister.
PM: Good morning Paul.
BONGIORNO: I notice you are wearing a black and white jacket there, Prime Minister. Despite your pleas yesterday, we have a draw. Do you agree with the captain of Collingwood- after the match, very disappointed? It's really a farce, isn't it? The AFL surely needs extra time for a Grand Final if there's a draw.
PM: Well, first Paul, no one should take any implication from the wearing of a black and white jacket. And I do have a purple top on, so there we have it. It was obviously a very, very tense day yesterday. The AFL, its history, its tradition is to play the Grand Final again, so everybody is heading towards next Saturday now.
BONGIORNO: You don't think that they're a bit Neanderthal with this attitude? Maybe it's time to update themselves.
PM: I'm sure there's going to be any amount of debate on this topic given yesterday's result, but heading into yesterday's Grand Final, if anybody had been asked what will happen if there's a draw, the answer would be the game's played again. So heading for another four quarters of football, it's an eight quarter Grand Final in that sense, Paul. Very, very pressurised for the players, but gee, we saw some extraordinary football yesterday.
BONGIORNO: Very diplomatic Prime Minister. Moving to other issues. That poll in the News Limited papers today- 78% of Australians would like to see the ban on euthanasia legislation in the two territories overturned. Are you with the majority? PM: Look, I think this is a question that people will work through as a matter of individual decision, not looking at the newspaper polls but looking at what they think is the right thing to do. Paul, there's obviously two tranches to this question. Number one - the question of the capacity of territories to legislate like states and whether people have a view about euthanasia. People will resolve this issue for themselves. There will be a conscience vote. I'll resolve it for myself, but I'll reserve my position until I've seen the full details of what it is that Senator Brown proposes.
BONGIORNO: What's your attitude in principle?
PM: Look, in principle, Paul, I do find this a difficult question. Sort of- intellectually you would say, well, people should be able to make their own decisions. But I find it very hard to conceptualise how we could have the sort of safeguards that we would need if we did say that euthanasia was legal. I find it almost impossible to conceptualise how there could be appropriate steps and safeguards. So I'm, you know, conflicted on it in that sense. I think it's a very difficult question.
BONGIORNO: Well going to raw-knuckle politics, if I can put it that way- Mr Somlyay, the Liberal MP, has now withdrawn his bid to be Deputy Speaker. Do you have another Liberal up your sleeve?
PM: Well Paul, I think all this means that as we head towards Parliament opening on Tuesday, and then parliamentary business proper on Wednesday, that increasingly we're seeing that Mr Abbott believes his role is to wreck. He's acting like a bull in a china shop thinking his job is to smash everything he sees up. I don't see it like that. I believe Australians want us to get on with the job. They want us to make this Parliament work. I will be asking myself every day, what can we build, what can we do positively in this Parliament.
That's why I entered into the agreement on parliamentary reform. That's why I am standing ready to honour the agreement on parliamentary reform. And I think it's deeply disappointing, deeply disappointing, that Mr Abbott would say yes to parliamentary reform, sign the agreement, see his representatives engage in the group hug, spruik parliamentary reform himself, and then trash it when it doesn't suit him.
BONGIORNO: So, by the sounds of it, you're still looking for someone else to pair with your Speaker?
PM: Well, we will present Harry Jenkins as our candidate for Speaker. Obviously, who is the Speaker of the Parliament is a decision of the whole of the House of Representatives. And of course Paul, we're looking to honour the agreement as best we can in circumstances where Mr Abbott says my job is to be a wrecker. That's all he wants to do. Smash things, trash things, break them up. +
BONGIORNO: Well, Tony Abbott's case against your credibility is based on this unequivocal statement you made five days out from the election.
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PM: There will be no carbon tax under the Government I lead.
BONGIORNO: Now Prime Minister, I accept that things have changed as a result of the election. But you and your Deputy Prime Minister have said that there will be no equivocation over the fact that you are heading for a surplus within three years. Why can't you give the same straight out commitment to no carbon tax?
PM: Well Paul, I think we've got to be a bit realistic here. Circumstances have changed. Obviously, during the election campaign, I was announcing the Government's position. Of course, the Government has its policies and plans. We also have a House of Representatives where we can't just go to the House of Representatives and say here is the Government's position and five minutes later it's passed by the House. That's not the circumstance we find ourselves in.
I would also say Paul, significantly too, we've seen the head of BHP, Marius Kloppers, make a very important speech on arrangements for carbon pricing and the view of a business like BHP about the need for certainty. What that means of course, is we will work constructively in this new Parliament. That's what I've said we would do. With the Greens, with the Independents, and indeed, that offer is open to the Liberal Party. We're putting together a committee that is open to representatives of all sides of politics who agree that climate change is real and we need to price carbon in order to reach the targets that we've set ourselves in 2020. Now, Mr Abbott, if he wants to take a constructive approach, could see his political party be part of those discussions.
BONGIORNO: Prime Minister, it's time for a break.
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BONGIORNO: You're on Meet the Press with the Prime Minister. And welcome to the panel, Steve Lewis from News Limited and Michelle Grattan from The Age. Good morning, Steve and Michelle.
GRATTAN: Hi Paul.
LEWIS: G'day Paul.
BONGIORNO: This week saw a new focus on Australia's policy of detaining illegal immigrants and asylum seekers who come in boats. Rooftop protests at Sydney's Villawood detention centre were quickly linked by the Opposition to detention centres bursting at the seams, thanks to an increase in the number of seaborne refugees.
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MORRISON: If there are 5,000 people in detention, it's not because of the policy of detention. It's because of the policy that has encouraged so many to actually get on a boat and come here.
BONGIORNO: Michelle Grattan.
GRATTAN: Prime Minister, apart from the policies that you've already announced- which we'll come to in a minute- are you going to look at some new specific measures to try to stop the flow of boats?
PM: Well, as I announced during the election campaign, indeed, in the days leading up to the election campaign, my view is the solution here is to have a regional protection framework and a regional processing centre. And we will be pursuing that with our neighbours, including with East Timor. What that would do is take away any incentive to get on a boat. And we don't want people risking their lives at sea, getting on leaky, rickety boats and we don't want to see the evil trade of people smuggling profiting from people's desperation and misery. So that is the solution that I am focused on.
GRATTAN: More urgently, you've got to face up to the problem of what to do about the processing of the Afghan people. Now, there's been a freeze imposed on that, but that's about to come to an end, and you have to decide whether to renew it or start processing those people. What is your inclination?
PM: Well, this isn't a question of inclination, it's a question of the best country information we can get about Afghanistan. And obviously, that country information is assisted by the work of the United Nations High Commissioner on Refugees and the information they help nations like Australia with when it comes to country circumstances. So, Michelle, I'm not going to prejudge. We will work through- the Minister for Immigration in the first instance- and then of course the Government as a whole, what to do at the time of the end of the processing pause.
LEWIS: Prime Minister, there are around about 5000 people currently in detention. Do you know how many of those are children? And does the number of children currently being held in detention centres around Australia actually worry you?
PM: Well I think we just need to be a little bit careful here Steve when we use the word detention. Yes, of course, we have a policy of mandatory detention, of making sure that people are detained. We need to have proper health checks, security checks and proper processing. But we also have a set of values, a value statement that guides how family groups, particularly children, will be treated, and the kind of circumstances in which they will live. So of course, when you look around at the country, it is possible for families to live in quite different circumstances from the high-security detention images that people see on their television screens.
LEWIS: So they're being held in motels as opposed to behind barbed wire? PM: Well, they're being held in accommodation that we believe is suitable for families and suitable for children. As a political party in opposition, we said we did not believe that children should be held behind razor wire in high-security detention. And so, we have worked to have more appropriate accommodation for family groups and for children.
GRATTAN: But there has been a lot of criticism from mental health experts for example, including the head of one of your own advisory bodies, about the effect that this policy and the uncertainty people face is having on people, and- including on children.
PM: Look, I understand that there is ongoing debate in the community. There are some in our community who would prefer we did not have mandatory detention. Of course, the Government's policy is for mandatory detention, so that's always going to be contested. Then, of course, when people are detained, we take advice about the best way of providing services to people, including health services. And obviously we do work with mental health experts on that.
BONGIORNO: Well Prime Minister, despite assurances from the top brass that our troops in Afghanistan are well supported, stories keep coming out of the ranks that this isn't the case. The Defence Force Association makes this point.
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JAMES: The Australians and Afghans involved did very, very well in it. But at the end of the day, they had to withdraw because their ammunition was running out and they didn't have sufficient force to destroy the enemy force. Now, if they'd been able to do that, they possibly wouldn't have had to fight a battle the next day and the day after and the day after that. So that's the big lesson from this.
LEWIS: Prime Minister, my colleague Ian McPhedran this week has exposed the concerns of soldiers and other senior members of the military about the state of play for our troops in Afghanistan. Have you sought personal assurances that our soldiers want for nothing, that they are absolutely well supported?
PM: Well, on an ongoing basis, the Government reviews force protection. I of course did read the story that you refer to which had the details of an email from a soldier. I also watched- and I'm sure you would've too, Steve- the press conference the next day from the Chief of Operations about the circumstances of that battle, where quite a different view was put. And he made the point that people in a combat situation can walk away from the same incident with very different perspectives about what had happened, but that the, you know, Army works through a process where they collect the various views of what's happened during the battle and produce a synthesised view of what has occurred. On force protection, of course the Government is committed to providing our troops the force protection they need. There was a force protection review that led to us stepping up and investing $1.1 billion in force protection. We keep the area under constant review through our National Security Committee and we will continue to do so.
GRATTAN: And what about policy more generally? Stephen Smith has promised that he will be arguing for more police resources to go to Afghanistan, but there's also American pressure to have more troops. Are you at all inclined to be sympathetic to that request?
PM: Well, when you say American pressure, Michelle, we have not received a request to increase our numbers of troops in Afghanistan. We engaged in a very major increase around 12 months or so ago. We believe the numbers are about right. What Stephen Smith has been talking about is adding to our training capacity for training police and, obviously, we will work through that question. But when it comes to the deployment in Afghanistan, as Prime Minister, as a Government, we are committed to the mission in Afghanistan. We are committed to seeing it through. I believe our numbers of troops are about right and we will continue steadfast in the pursuit of the mission. It isn't easy, obviously. We've seen soldiers lose their lives. We've seen a lot of tragedy. But we remain committed to getting the job done. And the job is training the Afghan National Army so that they can provide stability and security in Afghanistan and for the Afghan people.
BONGIORNO: Time for a break. Coming up, it's been a big week for Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd and we ask who's top dog in Foreign Policy.
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BONGIORNO: You're on Meet the Press with the Prime Minister. Rivalries at the top of governments are nothing new. There was Hawke and Keating, Howard and Costello, and now the Opposition says there's another lethal rivalry between Gillard and Rudd. The new Foreign Minister certainly allowed the limelight in New York.
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ABBOTT: Kevin Rudd still feels deeply resentful, Alan, about the fact that he was politically assassinated, when in his view, he remained the best person to lead the Labor Party into the election.
BONGIORNO: Well Prime Minister, do you feel Kevin Rudd breathing down your neck?
PM: Paul, we are working together, getting on with the job, working as a team. I'm working with each of my Ministers, and of course, working closely and constructively with Kevin Rudd on foreign policy questions.
BONGIORNO: You're going to four international conferences in the next month or so. Will Kevin Rudd accompany you on those trips?
PM: These are leaders' events so I will be attending them. Obviously, Kevin will have a travel program as Foreign Minister. Paul, you should expect the arrangements between me and Kevin Rudd to be exactly the same as arrangements between Prime Ministers and Foreign Ministers in the past.
LEWIS: Prime Minister, one of the conferences will be a trip to Brussels. As I understand it, you'll be flying to Brussels for around about 24 hours and then back to Australia. That's a- would leave a large carbon footprint. Why is this particular meeting so important?
PM: Well Steve, as you well know from the point of view of journalists, it can be hard to win this one. If you go very quickly, you talk about carbon footprint. If I was gone for a long time, I can just imagine the headlines that you yourself would be writing. This is an important meeting. It's the first time Australia has had the opportunity to sit at a table, at this particular table, which brings together the leaders of Asia and Europe. Why is that important? Because it is bringing together so many of the economies with which we trade. Increased trade means increased jobs for Australians.
LEWIS: You're not known as a foreign policy specialist, but you will get the chance to meet with the British Prime Minister, the US President, etcetera. How do you reckon you're going to go mixing it with those sorts of world leaders? Do you reckon you'll be able to hold your own, and forge a new identity on the global stage?
PM: Well, people obviously come into this position as Prime Minister from a variety of life paths and life journeys. Obviously, Kevin came in with a great deal of expertise in foreign affairs, having spent much of his life as a diplomat. When we look at prime ministers past- Bob Hawke, Paul Keating, John Howard- they didn't come in through that that prism of foreign policy but each of them carved out a particular role on the world stage. Obviously, I will be looking to be in these international meetings as a feisty advocate of our national interest, of Australian interests on the world stage.
GRATTAN: Ms Gillard, just in that role as feisty advocate, as Paul mentioned you've got several conferences coming up. What will be the priorities you will be pushing at those conferences?
PM: Well, the clear priority for the Government and for how we intersect with these world events is keeping our economy strong. I mean, the globe is still in a tentative recovery phase from the global financial crisis. Our economy of course, is coming out stronger than major economies around the world. And that means we've got a unique opportunity to keep building economic strength, because we are coming out of the global financial crisis so strong. But that means, very much on the agenda of these international meetings- whether it's the G20 or other meetings- is what the world needs to do as we emerge from the global financial crisis is to get the global economy as strong as possible.
BONGIORNO: Prime Minister- just before we go, and briefly, it's moving into The Lodge day- have you been reluctant to move in there? Why has it taken you so long? PM: Not a question of reluctance. Before the election I said, and I think it was proper, that I wouldn't move into The Lodge until I'd been elected by the Australian people. Since the election, there's just been some very simple mundane matters of repair work, like securing some asbestos, that's better done when no one is actually living there.
GRATTAN: And can you tell us a bit about the role of the First Bloke? He's given up his job in Melbourne, I think?
BONGIORNO: Just very briefly, Prime Minister.
PM: Well of course, Tim will be with me in the Lodge as my partner, supporting me the way he does. You should expect to see him, too, continue his advocacy for men's health. He's someone who, very much, has taken up a passionate advocacy about making sure men look after themselves, go to the doctors and do all the right things.
BONGIORNO: Thank you very much, Prime Minister.