Melbourne
FAINE: Julia Gillard, good morning to you and congratulations.
PM: Good morning Jon, thank you very much.
FAINE: It's an Australian political cliché but do you have blood on your hands?
PM: Well, it is an Australian political cliché and of course I've been asked it in the last few days. Jon, I took a tough decision, it was a tough decision, but I thought it was in the best interests of the nation, the best interests of the Government, that we got back on track. I thought a good Government had lost its way.
FAINE: We've heard that several times now, when did Kevin Rudd and his Government go off the rails? Precisely when and why didn't you do anything about it as they started to go off the rails?
PM: Well Jon, you've heard it several times because it's the truth, I feel it very deeply. Obviously as Deputy Prime Minister I was vice-captain of the team and I endeavoured to play my role as vice-captain of the team to the best of my ability. I've said - and this remains Jon -I'm not going to canvass private conversations I had as Deputy Prime Minister but it became clear to me that from that position I couldn't do the things that needed to be done to get the Government back on track with a renewed focus on strengthening our economy and delivering real services, the services working families, hard working Australians need.
FAINE: So he wouldn't listen, he just wouldn't listen to you?
PM: Well you're inviting me Jon to go I think through discussions that are private discussions. I believe Kevin Rudd -
FAINE: Well we need to know. We the people who voted for a Government that we were told was Kevin07, we need to know what actually happened? You can't just say these were private conversations when it's the Government of the country that's been rolled.
PM: Jon, people voted for Kevin07, they voted for a new team, and they got a new team. And of course Kevin Rudd delivered so many important things that he had promised Australians, writing amazing new chapters in Australian history including through the apology to the Stolen Generations, ratifying Kyoto, and then of course he stepped up to the plate to do what needed to be done to keep Australians working during the global financial crisis and global recession.
But in recent days, as is a matter of public record, obviously the Government has had a set of issues and problems that have caused Australians to be anxious and caused me to become concerned that we needed to get a good Government back on track with a renewed focus on a strengthening economy and a renewed focus on delivering services. And that's exactly what I'm doing.
FAINE: One minute he's chairing Cabinet, the next minute you don't even want him in the Cabinet at all. Was he going to be disruptive influence if you appointed him to a job?
PM: I had some discussions with Kevin Rudd on the weekend and I certainly said to him, as I said publicly yesterday, I will be absolutely delighted if we are re-elected, to have Kevin Rudd serve as a senior member of our Cabinet with a senior portfolio.
For the time between now and the election I put a premium on stability, on making sure we kept people focussed on doing the job for Australians and that's why I announced a very limited reshuffle yesterday -
FAINE: So he would contribute to instability if he was a Minister in the Government today?
PM: No Jon, in this time period I thought the best thing was for Kevin to take a bit of time out, heaven knows he's earned it, I've never seen anybody work as hard as Kevin Rudd has worked in the last two and a bit years -
FAINE: And only a week ago he said he would work harder, he doesn't want a break but you think he needs one.
PM: Well I thought it was appropriate in this time that Kevin have the opportunity to spend time with family and friends. He's advised me that he will seek re-election as the Member for Griffith -
FAINE: The reality is, Julia Gillard, you wanted a break from him rather than him wanting a break from being a Minister.
PM: Well Jon I think that's a fairly unkind remark. What I thought was it was in the best interests of the Government to have a limited reshuffle. I thought it was in the best interests of Kevin, who's you know, obviously been through a very, very difficult period - I mean nothing about this has been easy for Kevin Rudd - that the appropriate thing was for him to have some time out from the intensity of the direct hurly-burly of politics.
Now Jon, we're going to move at some point during the second half of the year to election day and in the days beyond, you know, the essential thing is what happens at the election. If we are re-elected, and I expect it to be a hard, close contest, but if we are re-elected then I will be very, very pleased to see Kevin serve as a senior Minister of the Government.
FAINE: Tell me what's wrong with this scenario that's doing the rounds at the moment. You negotiate frantically for a week or so with the mining industry, then you zip off, have breakfast with the troops in Afghanistan, drop in in Indonesia on the way back, climb up on one of those big mining trucks in the Pilbara in a fluoro vest with a hard hat on, go and reopen a closed hospital in Queensland that you blame Tony Abbott for and then go and visit Bill Shorten's mother-in-law to call an election?
PM: Jon, you obviously have an aspiration to be in politics yourself, I'll have to see if there's an opportunity for you anywhere around the Government.
FAINE: But tell me what's wrong with that scenario in rough terms?
PM: Well my scenario Jon, the one I'm focussed on, is making sure that we're doing the things we need to do to get the Government back on track. You're right to identify dealing with the Resources Super Profits Tax as one, and the Government is negotiating and very focused on reaching a genuine outcome about the Resources Super Profits Tax.
Then of course in the weeks to come, I will have something to say about climate change. I think there is a concern in the Australian community about what is happening next on climate change and I want to be talking to people about that, and then my aim is to be delivering steady, good Government.
FAINE: We'll come to some policies in the future in a moment, one more question about the turmoil we have just experienced, if you lose the election when it comes, and I think August, do you stand aside?
PM: Jon, I'd have to say I haven't given that a moment's thought or reflection. My aim is on doing what we need to do to make sure we're addressing some of the problems that the Government and the nation faces. For example I think the Resources Super Profits Tax has caused uncertainty and concern, that's why I'm focussed on negotiating to a good solution there.
Then I'm focussed on delivering good stable Government, that's what I've got my eyes on Jon, not hypothetical scenarios for the day after the election.
FAINE: You've done your share of negotiations, both as a lawyer, as a policy advisor and as a Minister in the Government. Why would mining industry executives make concessions when they know your time pressures, your deadline and all they have to do is tough it out?
PM: I think there's some goodwill abroad and I think that's the -
FAINE: Not when billions of dollars are at stake.
PM: Oh, Jon, I think there is some goodwill abroad and I think we can harness that goodwill to get to a solution. The debate about the Resources Super Profits Tax had become a very heated and sometimes acrimonious one. I think we've already taken some substantial steps to get a better sense of goodwill and collaboration into the debate. I think me deciding to cancel the Government's advertising, the mining industry reciprocating with its gesture of goodwill and cancelling its advertising, I think all of that has helped.
I think that there is goodwill. I think the mining industry wants to see us a strong and prosperous nation for the future. I want to see Australians getting a fairer share. I think we can find a meeting of minds here.
FAINE: Do you believe in God?
PM: No, I don't Jon, I'm not a religious person. I was brought up in the Baptist church. As is now very well known I think, we're Welsh migrants, we're Baptists. I grew up going to Mitcham Baptist Church, we lived two doors down from the Reverend there, Ian Porter, and I was great friends with his daughter Helen.
So I grew up going to Baptist youth group and all the rest. But during my adult life I've, you know, found a different path. I'm of course a great respecter of religious beliefs but they're not my beliefs Jon.
FAINE: For years now we've had Prime Ministers who make a ritual of Sunday morning going to church, being seen to be and filmed going to church, and both John Howard and Kevin Rudd courted successfully the vital Christian vote. How are you going to in any way attract those voters and that support?
PM: Jon, I am not going to pretend a faith I don't feel, and for people of faith I think the greatest compliment I could pay to them is to respect their genuinely held beliefs and not to engage in some pretence about mine.
I think it's not the right thing, and I'm not reflecting on past Prime Ministers here, I'm definitely not doing that, but I'm trying to answer your question as frankly as I can - I've never thought it was the right thing for me to go through religious rituals for the sake of appearance.
You know, I am what I am, and people will judge that. For people of faith, what I would say to them is I grew up in a, you know, Christian church, a Christian background, a Baptist church, I won prizes for catechism for being able to remember Bible verses. I am steeped in that tradition, but I've made decisions in my adult life about my own views.
FAINE: Are you worried about the Christian vote?
PM: Look I'm, you know, worried about the national interest, about doing the right thing by Australians and I'll allow, you know, people to form their own views on whatever is going to drive their views.
What I can say to Australians broadly of course is I believe you can be a person of strong principle and values from a variety of perspectives and I've outlined mine to you.
FAINE: How can you meet global emissions targets, and specifically the ones we've signed up to, without a price on carbon?
PM: Jon, we are going to need a price on carbon, correct, absolutely right. And I have said that we want to move towards a broad and deep consensus about a price on carbon.
The reason a price on carbon works to cut emissions is it transforms the way you do things, it transforms the way you run your economy, it transforms the way we live as individuals in that economy and in that society.
If you're going to make changes that broad and that deep then you need a community consent to it, an understanding of it, and frankly I don't think we have that at the moment, so we'll be working towards that community consensus.
FAINE: Do you have a conflict of interest with your partner Tim Mathieson working for Albert Dadon and the Ubertas group which is one of the key lobbyists for the pro-Israel side of the Middle East debate in Australia, and a former Ambassador to the Middle-East writes a letter to the Fairfax newspapers today saying that you don't criticise Israel because of those connections.
PM: Look I've seen that letter to the newspapers and of course that is not right. I've made up my own views about Israel and made them publicly known well before there was any suggestion that my partner would work in a property group associated with Mr Dadon.
Indeed the statements that got national attention here and some criticism about were the statements I made at the time of the Gaza conflict when I was Acting Prime Minister which was of course well before there was any suggestion that my partner would be employed in this way. So - simply not an accurate recording of history Jon, and not an accurate recording of how I've formed my views.
FAINE: Will Tim Mathieson continue to work for the Ubertas Group?
PM: Well, you know, Tim's his own person with his own life, with his own job. I of course have taken advice, I took it at the time that Tim first took that job, to make sure that, you know, I don't sit at a Cabinet table or make a decision that would be inappropriate given that he's employed in that way and I've made all of the necessary declarations and disclosures.
You know Jon, I think maybe me sitting in this chair talking to you today as Prime Minister is saying very visibly to the nation we're in a bit of a different age. Kevin obviously was an example of that, Kevin was the first Prime Minister as I understand it, to have a partner with her own career and a formidable and successful career it is.
Now of course I'm the first woman, I'm obviously the first person to have a male partner, he's got his own career and own job and I hope that people would understand that, that he's got a right to live his life too.
FAINE: Did Stephen Baker get too long a time out from the tribunal for 12 weeks from last week's punch-up?
PM: Given all of the things I've said across my working life about people respecting umpires, particularly industrial umpires, I don't think that I can, I don't think that I can criticise an umpire, a tribunal in any setting now Jon.
FAINE: Well I thought I'd ask a football question in there somewhere.
PM: There'll be some upset fans though, that's for sure.
FAINE: Your next interview awaits, I'm grateful to you for your time this morning and look forward to a chance when you can join us to take talkback in the studio.
PM: Thanks very much Jon.