HOST: Prime Minister, good morning.
PM: Good morning Deborah, thanks for having me on your program.
HOST: You're welcome. Kristina Keneally says she's prepared to work on a compromise. Victoria remains opposed. South Australia's in your camp. West Australia definitely not. Now Monday is looming, and you have to ask- is nuclear disarmament easier than this?
PM: You know what I find, talking to working families, pensioners, carers right across the country- is that they're just crying out for reform to the health and hospital system. And for growth in funding to the system for more doctors, more nurses, more hospital beds. We said we'd act on this prior to the last election. We said we'd have an independent commission of inquiry which ran for 18 months to come up with recommendations for the future of the system. That was delivered in July last year. We then spent six months consulting more than 100 hospitals around the country, I did about 25 of those myself.
And now we're down to the Council of Australian Governments meeting. Of course there's going to be disagreement. But I think the overwhelming message from Australians is that they know the current system's not working. They know it needs to be reformed. They're tired of the overlap, duplication and waste. They want to see more Australian Government investment in the future of hospital beds, doctors and nurses. And that's what we intend to do.
HOST: It's been interesting to watch your bedside diplomacy on this. Every night on the news there's an image of you walking into a hospital ward somewhere and saying, almost always, can I park myself here, as you sit down on the bed. Now you've obviously tried to win people's hearts on this, and you have had a bounce in the polls, apparently due to this-
PM: Do you know something? It's often easier to talk to people in a hospital bed sitting on the bed with them rather than hovering over them.
HOST: I know, but they're a captive audience, Prime Minister.
PM: No, no, listen- we make a point- just for the purpose of your listeners, we make a point of only speaking to people who are happy to have a conversation. So that is discussed with the nurses and doctors in advance, we never put people on the spot.
HOST: No, of course, and I understand this, but I wonder whether or not you think that it really will be the main election issue for you?
PM: Well look, I can't think of many more important things for working families right across the country. People look at the system, they know it's not working, they know we need more doctors, more nurses, more hospital beds. They're looking for a plan to do that. We've put forward one, a new National Health and Hospitals Network for the first time funded nationally, run locally, through local hospital networks. And for the first time, the Australian Government becoming the dominant funder of the public hospital system of Australia. That's our plan. We've put it out there. We're arguing it.
Obviously, some of the states- or the Victorian Premier in particular- is running an argument that effectively says the current system is okay, just send us another blank cheque in the morning. I don't think that is right, because what we need to do is not have business as usual with the same old hospital system and the same old problems. What we need instead is to reform the system, to get rid of duplication, waste and overlap, and then to grow the system through the Australian Government taking on the dominant funding role for the future. That's our plan.
HOST: Can I ask you about electoral reality? The Victorian Premier is facing an election soon. Kristina Keneally's facing an election soon. You're facing an election soon. If you called a referendum on this, you might have a situation where you and Labor Premiers are fighting with each other, as all of you are headed towards an election. Now, are you really prepared to pull that off?
PM: I think my responsibility as Prime Minister of Australia is to act in the national interest. And I hear, loud and clear, from people right across this country, small rural hospitals, regional hospitals like the one I was at up at Port Macquarie just the other day, Gosford Hospital yesterday, Lismore Base Hospital the day before- they were all saying to me that they want to see action. They want to see the current system changed, and they want to see greater Australian Government investment in the system, once it's changed.
So, my job is to act in the national interest. We will do that. If the Premiers come with us cooperatively, that's great. I'd prefer to do it that way, because it's easier to get things done that way. But I've been clear, since prior to the last election, if we can't get there cooperatively I'd have to seek a further mandate from the Australian people. I've been absolutely upfront about that since I've been elected.
HOST: Then, when might an election be?
PM: Well, that's a good question to throw on Sydney ABC Radio at 8:38 in the morning. Can I just say- I'll let you in on a scoop- it'll be sometime before April next year, that's when our term expires. Look, I believe the path ahead for health and hospital reform is to try and get it right with the Premiers. I've had a lot of discussions with them. Mr Brumby, Premier Keneally, I had a good discussion with her the other night in the Central Coast. Premier Bligh I met in Brisbane only a few days ago. Premier Rann I've been talking to as well. And Premier Barnett, from Western Australia, before he flew to the United States a week or so ago.
But we're actually maintaining a high level of (inaudible) contact, political contact, trying to work this through. But I'm just being very clear about the fact that, frankly, to take for example Premier Brumby's solution, which is to say the current system's fine, just send me another blank cheque to the state health system, is not the right way to go. I don't believe the Australian people would wear that. They want the current system fixed. They want then, after we deal with the problems of duplication, waste and overlap, the Australian Government then to become the dominant funders of the system. Because, you know something, at the end of the day, state and territory budgets cannot cope with the demands of the health and hospital system for the long term future, anyway.
HOST: My guest this morning is the Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd. Mr Rudd, the- another issue which is looming large in people's imagination at this stage, anyway, is the idea of population growth in Australia. Now Sydney, Australia's largest city, is obviously the honey pot for enterprise and population growth. We absorb a lot of people already. You've initiated this debate. How do you think people should envisage life in a country with projected growth of, let's say, the 35 million that Treasury expects by 2050?
PM: Well let's put it all into its context. Firstly, what the Intergenerational Report produced by the Treasury said is that based on historical policy settings about natural growth and about the historical average of immigration growth, that by mid-century the country's population would increase to about 35 million. That also assumes that population growth would be slower over the next 40 years than it has been for the last 40 years. So let's just put that into its factual context.
The second point is, what do you do, therefore, in terms of making sure that you've got sustainable population levels for Australia in the future. That's why we've appointed Tony Burke as Australia's first ever Minister for Population. He's been sworn in.
[LINE DROPS OUT]
HOST: But first, we've got the Prime Minister back. Prime Minister, thank you very much for joining me again.
PM: Sorry about that Deborah. Probably my fault. But we could blame ABC funding I spose.
HOST: Well we can do something about that right now if you'd like.
PM: Sure Deborah.
HOST: But listen, after hearing the promo that we played in the meantime about Kerry O'Brien's interview with Barack Obama, you've missed an opportunity, obviously, to be at that meeting in Washington for the reasons that you've set out. But it was put to me yesterday that while Washington can completely understand why you've made that decision, you might look back in years to come on your Prime Ministerial scrapbook and say 'I wish I'd been at that meeting of international leaders, this was a meeting that might change the world'.
PM: Well look- I think the challenge here Deborah is-
[LINE DROPS OUT]
HOST: Thanks again Prime Minister.
PM: Third time lucky, and I'm sure that one was my fault. But you were talking about the United States nuclear summit. Let me just make a couple of quick points. You were- by the way, before the line dropped out, I was talking about population policy for Sydney. Look, the key thing is to develop Australia's first ever sustainable population policy. That's why we've appointed Tony Burke, who's also a Cabinet Minister here, from Sydney. Secondly, to look at future population levels, and how you would actually adjust Australia's infrastructure and service planning to meet those levels, and across different regions.
On the question of America, can I say the nuclear summit's important. But Australia's credentials on the question of nuclear disarmament are well established. And this is an area where we're going to have to do a lot of work in the future as well.
HOST: The- I think the other burning question as well is also about sustainability, just to return to that very important matter. The management of food producing land on the outskirts of Sydney, and the problems of urban sprawl are very real, and of great concern to many people who live in Sydney. Are you addressing this?
PM: Well it's not for an accident that I've appointed the Minister for Agriculture, also, as the Minister for Population, Tony Burke, who also is a Member responsible for a seat in Parliament which comes from the Sydney metro area. Here is a senior Cabinet Minister who has a wide view about sustainability and agriculture more broadly, and fisheries and forestry, as well as understanding the growth constraints of Sydney and large cities across Australia.
This is an Australian first, having an Australian Minister for Population, developing our first ever population strategy which looks at different possible population levels in the future, and how you can meet that with proper planning for infrastructure provision, for transport provision, dealing with urban congestion. At the same time, dealing also with the needs of food, of water, and the other parts which make up sustainable population policy.
HOST: Another part of that picture is energy. Now, Australia has great reserves of energy, great reserves of coal. But delivering that to people in a way that is efficient and able to be actually afforded is becoming a matter of grave concern. The absence of Government leadership since Copenhagen on the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme has left lots of people trying to guess at investment planning and budgeting decisions now. Why have you gone so quiet on this issue?
PM: Let me be absolutely very clear about it. The Government's policy in terms of emissions trading is absolutely clear. Secondly, what we did with the Copenhagen conference was throw everything at obtaining a comprehensive global agreement. We didn't get everything that we, or many other nations wanted, including President Obama in the United States. But can I say, what we did was produce a Copenhagen Accord to which now, I'm advised, a very large proportion of the participating economies have now signed up to.
And one of the things they've signed up to is accepting a global target, that we cannot have global temperature increases exceed two degrees centigrade. That's one of the things that emerged through the actions of Australia and other countries at Copenhagen at the end of last year. The other thing is this, though. You talk about political leadership. What happened at the end of last year was that there was effectively a political coup within the Liberal party when Mr Turnbull said that he'd negotiated an arrangement to pass the Government's Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme in the Parliament. They changed their leader by one vote, having previously voted to support the Government's scheme. And we now have a Liberal party led by Mr Abbott, who says, quote, that "climate change is absolute crap", unquote.
Now, you talk about the question of political leadership on this. I'm constrained by a political Opposition now who have control of the Senate, who have stated they think climate change is crap. Our position's clear. I think some of these questions should be directed to Mr Abbott.
HOST: Prime Minister, thank you very much for joining me this morning, and for persisting with those dropped lines.
PM: Yeah, my apologies for that, I'm sure it's because we're on the move. Thanks for having me on the program Deborah.