MITCHELL: Prime Minister, Mr Rudd, good morning.
PM: Good morning, Neil. I'd go for Clint Eastwood.
MITCHELL: Would you?
PM: Yeah, I'm just an old fan.
MITCHELL: You a Clint Eastwood fan, are you?
PM: I've watched most of the dreadful Westerns that Clint Eastwood's been in, so, no, I think he'd pull a crowd.
MITCHELL: What was your favourite?
PM: Oh, don't ask me. I just think he's been a lot of fun out there in Western land for a long period of time. He's come to be the cowboy from central casting.
MITCHELL: Now, serious business - in Delhi, I know you've been raising the question of the attacks on Indian students in Australia. The local media in Delhi has been critical that you haven't apologised. I mean, do you apologise for the attacks on those students?
PM: Well, what I said here, bluntly, Neil, last night, is that as Prime Minister of the country I accept responsibility for the enforcement of our law enforcement system, but frankly I don't think these debates about apology take you anywhere, one way or the other, and so I'm concerned about practical action on the ground.
Remember, we've got acts of violence which occur every day, regrettably, on our streets across Australia. Foreigners and Australians become the targets of those attacks, so foreign students in Australia, unfortunately, become also part and parcel of the, you know, criminal statistics of Australia in terms of what's going on in our streets. I don't think it actually aids the debate or, more practically, aids the action, if we end up in a fairly arid debate about apologies or non-apologies.
The bottom line is I take responsibility for the system, and we're bringing in some practical changes, and I've discussed that of course with various of the State governments.
MITCHELL: Some of the Indian commentators do seem to believe that they're broadly racial attacks. Do you believe they are, or are they opportunistic street crimes?
PM: No, my view, and I've put it here, consistently again yesterday is that I do not believe that racism is at work in Australia on these matters at all. I believe that what you're looking at is the fact that is if you've half a million foreign students in Australia in any given year, and this has been growing over many years now, 100,000 of whom come from India, that's one fifth, then simply if you look at the criminal statistics, that is, the number of homicides in a given day in Australia, the number of assaults in Australia in a given day as a proportion of the population, if you've got half a million students it follows that they are going to end up as part of those statistics. It's unfortunate - it's really unfortunate - that that is the case.
So, I think what you have with foreign students is opportunistic attacks, you have people carrying a little bit of money they earn late at night, back home on the train, and opportunistic attacks could be launched against a foreign student, an Indian student, a Chinese student, or an Australian student, particularly if you're on the trains late at night.
MITCHELL: There was an Indian student who fled this country after pleading guilty to a particularly horrendous case of culpable driving, drunk and speeding and unlicensed. Julie Gillard did say she would raise this when she was in the country. I don't know that she did. Is that an issue you have raised with the Indian officials?
PM: It's something I spoke directly with our High Commissioner about here, and they are directly engaged with the Indian Home Office that is effectively the Indian ministry responsible for tracking people down within their law enforcement system. That is on track at the moment. It's being worked on. I got assurances on that when I arrived here, and so therefore we expect that the Indian Government will be responding in due course to our request. The details concerning this case, as you know, from the Gold Coast, I believe, are quite horrendous.
MITCHELL: Yeah, the victim of the Gold Coast, happened in Melbourne. So you don't raise-
PM: No, the person from the Gold Coast.
MITCHELL: Person, that's right. You don't raise it directly with the Indian officials. It's done through the High Commission.
PM: It is, it's done through the High Commission, and I actually sought assurances that all the proper processes had been enforced at that level, but let me tell you, if there is continued delay on this then we will be raising it at further levels, but the assurances I've received from the High Commission is that this is being dealt with through all the proper channels now and with the level of importance which we in Australia attach to the resolution of this case.
MITCHELL: Just before we leave the students, I read some confused reports that you were launching a 'home for dinner' - Australian families taking Indian students home to dinner. Is that right?
PM: Rotary in Australia, who I think are a fantastic organisation, have put together this proposal. We're just backing them in. It's the right thing for them to do. I think sometime today in Australia, Rotary International will be launching this. We just want to back them in.
What's the bottom line? We've got a whole lot of students in Australia, foreign students. I think it's great that you've got organisations like Rotary working at community level to make these folk feel welcome at home and welcome while they are in Australia, so full marks to Rotary. As I understand it they are going to be putting all that out later today.
MITCHELL: OK, Prime Minister, on the asylum seekers, we're told there could be 20 people, as many as 20 people from the Oceanic Viking who agree to go ashore today following the offer from the Australian Government. However, that offer's pretty generous. Alexander Downer has said this looks like giving people incentive to try to come to Australia. Why is that offer, which is housing, jobs, English lessons, resettled within a month, isn't that giving in to what is effectively blackmail from these people?
PM: Well, first of all, can I just say about Mr Downer, who's provided the commentary, that in his period in office we had some 250 boats come to this country, bringing about 15,000 individuals. They issued something in excess of 10,000 temporary protection visas, 90 percent of whom ended up permanently resettled in Australia, so let's put all that into context.
Secondly, on the details concerning this individual vessel and those who are on board it, the key thing is to make it absolutely plain, absolutely clear cut, that the Australian Government will not be responding to any protest activity on their part or any threats on their part in terms of any change to our border protection policy.
MITCHELL: But they've got exactly what they wanted.
PM: Hang on, well, let me go to that. What you refer to there is the engagements between Australian and international officials and the individuals who are on board this vessel concerning the processing of whether or not they have refugee status. Secondly, what it indicates is that when it comes to anyone who is successfully processed, it goes then to the sorts of conditions which would apply, but it does not go to the question of where the resettlement country in question would be. There are 16 resettlement countries around the world. Australia is one of them. The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, working with us and working with the other resettlement countries, could send these individuals to any particular country, and we do not know where that would occur at this stage. So when you talk about what conditions would apply, they could be applying to individuals on this vessel who end up in Canada, or end up in Scandinavia, or end up elsewhere, but that's yet to be determined because the status of each individual hasn't been determined yet.
MITCHELL: So they haven't been promised a position in Australia? They haven't been promised settlement in Australia within a month?
PM: What we've said here, let me just go to the document concerned. It says that procedures will differ slightly depending on your circumstances. If UNHCR has found you to be a refugee, Australian officials will assist you to be resettled within four to six weeks from the time you disembark the vessel, and that refers to UNHCR processing and resettlement wherever in the world.
It goes on to say if you have already registered with the UNHCR, Australian officials will assist with your UNHCR processing. If you are found to be a refugee you will be resettled within 12 weeks from the time you disembark from the vessel. Again, resettled wherever that happens to occur around the world.
MITCHELL: But we're also offering English lessons and welfare payments. How can we offer that on behalf of other countries?
PM: Well, what we do with the International Organisation of Migration, and also with UNHCR, is that we provide a whole range of services, as we have done in years past, to asylum seekers in detention centres in Indonesia. That's been done for a long, long time in the past, including when Mr Downer was foreign minister. It is normal operating procedure, and it will be the case in the future.
The key thing is to send an absolutely clear cut message that these are the processes to go through, this is the way in which individual cases are handled, and any view on the part of any of those on this vessel that if you engage in protest activity, threats of violence, threats of self harm, that that is going to change our policy on border protection, then they are dead set wrong.
MITCHELL: But they've been offered resettlement within four to six weeks. That's much faster than otherwise would be available.
PM: Well, the amount of time it takes to process individuals really does vary. For example, in Christmas Island, if you are taken to Christmas Island then the overall timeframe would vary depending on the individual concerned. It really does depend on the availability of UNHCR staff, it depends on the overall complexity of the individual case, but as I said, if there is a view on the part of any on this vessel that this is the way to ensure that our border protection policy will be changed, that is wrong, and furthermore, the processes outlined here go to resettlement around the world, but let me go on.
If they are found not to be refugees, then none of these processes apply. The problem is at this stage of the process the individual status of those concerned has not been determined.
MITCHELL: Are you denying that these people are getting special treatment?
PM: When I look at what's been provided here, it is consistent with UNHCR processing, both in Indonesia and elsewhere around the world. The time for processing, on average, will just vary with each individual case, depending on its complexity.
I go back to the point here, Neil, that is any assumption that any individual so processed will automatically end up in Australia, is wrong. The resettlement processes apply here to all sixteen resettlement countries around the world. Who does the sorting of all this? The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees.
MITCHELL: But the bottom line, are these people on the Oceanic Viking getting special treatment?
PM: Absolutely not. This is consistent with the overall approach we adopt to processing of individuals at any centre around the world. But what we're doing is using the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and then in partnership with resettlement countries around the world, and this goes on all the time, individuals will be sent where you know, opportunities or where possibilities or where vacancies exist around the world.
We have done this, including under the previous Australian Government for many, many years. That's how it works with resettlement countries. But I'll just again reiterate the bottom line here, that anyone who thinks that by engaging in rolling protest activity, rolling threats of violence, rolling threats of self harm, that that's going to in any way advance their individual case, they are dead wrong. Our border protection policy won't be changed.
MITCHELL: Prime Minister I know it's very early, just quickly, the Opposition Leader released his policy today and said he would return to a temporary visa situation for three years. After three years people would be returned to their country, if it was safe, if not they could stay in Australia. What's your response to that?
PM: I've just been handed this press statement from Mr Turnbull. What stuns me is after two years we don't get a policy, we get four dot points of principle. I'm all for a policy debate on what to do with border protection policy but this is a press release with four dot points of principle. What does he say in it? One, we will once again secure our borders. Well that's the policy which had 250 boats arrived under them with nearly 15,000 people. Two, he says all processing offshore. Well they didn't do that when they were in government either. We had about ten per cent of those boats coming to Australia who reached the mainland. In the case of this Government we have had, it think, out of 44 vessels, one which has so far reached the mainland. So that's the second point.
Another point he says is that they'll adopt a compassionate and fair refugee and humanitarian program. Well, hold the phone, that's what governments around Australia have been committed to in one form or another for a long, long time. Then fourthly, the point he's actually been saying through his spokesman for months, and there's nothing new in this at all, is describe a new non-permanent visa for unauthorised arrivals which he describes as a 'safe-haven visa'.
Well this, depending on the release and subsequent detailed policy statement, represents the return to a Howard government temporary protection visa. That's the one which saw, after it was introduced in 1999, some 9,000 irregular arrivals come to Australia on nearly 100 boats.
Secondly, by the time we got to mid-2007 nearly 10,000 had been granted temporary protection visas. But here's the clincher, nearly 90 per cent of those people granted temporary protection visas under the Howard government were subsequently granted a permanent visa to stay in Australia. So let's just be very clear about all this.
MITCHELL: Prime Minister, just quickly on another issue, you were in Afghanistan for Remembrance Day which is very important. The Acting Prime Minister Julia Gillard didn't go to any Remembrance Day service. I would have thought she'd go to the War Memorial. Isn't that perhaps an oversight?
PM: I haven't seen what Julia's program was that day. The critical thing, I believe, for Australia and attending this important Remembrance Day event is that representing Australia, I was with our troops in the field demonstrating the Government's, the nation's absolute support for what our brave men and women are doing in uniform, on the battle front. And secondly, on that occasion, with our American ally reflecting our honour of all those who have put their lives on the line for Australia.
MITCHELL: You'd be a bit surprised Julia Gillard wasn't at the War Memorial wouldn't you?
PM: Well, my understanding is that around that particular day that Julia was already committed to a nation conference with 161 principals from schools, also the Assistant Defence Minister Greg Combet represented both myself and Julia.
The key thing is, there's an event in Australia or around the world which is attended by the Prime Minister of Australia. That event in this case, was attended by myself in Afghanistan at Tarin Kowt with hundreds of our men and women in uniform in attendance. That reflected on behalf of the Government and the nation, our commitment to them and all those who have preceded them, wearing proudly the uniform of Australia.
MITCHELL: I got the impression from what you said that we're not actually winning in Afghanistan are we?
PM: Neil, I just believe in being blunt. That is, the insurgency led by the Taliban in the southern parts of the country is intensifying. That this is a real problem in provinces like Kandahar and Helmand which lie to the south of Oruzgan where the Australian troops are.
So it means that we need a national strategy in Afghanistan which is adjusted to the new realities. That's what General McChrystal, who is the supreme commander of the international assistance force in Afghanistan, discussed with me when we were in Tarin Kowt. We spent several hours discussing it. The Obama Administration will provide their response to that in due course. Plainly, nationally, a new strategy is needed. What we are doing within our province is to give effect to the training mission we established, which is to raise up a fourth Afghan National Army Brigade to take on security functions in the province.
MITCHELL: Thank you very much for your time, I know it's early morning. You'll be please to know Sabi the wonder dog will, I've spoken to the head of quarantine, she could be back in Australia within six months and then in quarantine for 30 days.
PM: Well actually Neil , you've given me news. Thank you for that because my next level of anxiety was what's going to happen with AQIS in getting Sabi back.
MITCHELL: Well Sabi apparently can go and live in the Australian base in Kuwait for six months while they monitor her. If she's OK and doesn't show anything she goes into quarantine here for 30 days and then she moves into The Lodge.
PM: I've got to talk to Abbey about that but anything's possible. Sabi the wonder dog, I think, it's just such a great story and, you know, there's a lot of hard things happening in Afghanistan but these are important symbols of getting our way through and I know all of our blokes and our women in uniform think it's just a fantastic outcome so, thank you, for that good news that AQIS is properly processing this matter.
MITCHELL: Thank you very much for your time.