HOST: Kevin Rudd is in Perth for the next three days. He joins us on the program this morning. Mr Rudd, thanks for your time.
PM: Good morning, Simon. Thanks for having me on the program.
HOST:Mr Rudd, I wanted to ask you about this gas and oil condensate slick off our Northern coast. The stories running around this morning are that it's now 3,000 square kilometres in size, in area. Can the Federal Government do more to assist with the clean up, or to assist with trying to get the gas leak turned off?
PM: The Federal Resources Minister, Martin Ferguson, in fact as I'm advised, flew over the site last Friday. There are a number of things under way. First, of course, your listeners will be aware of the use of dispersants, both from the air and from the sea, targeted at the oil patches concerned. Secondly, the company, of course, is making various arrangements to drill a relief well. Thirdly, in terms of the investigation and causes, there is of course a National Offshore Petroleum Safety Authority investigation underway.
In terms of the location, as I understand it the nearest point to the Australian coast is in excess of about 148km off the coast, and as I'm advised, the area is some 25 nautical miles by 70 nautical miles, and within that area there's about 25 percent oil coverage. The Government is following this exceptionally closely. It's appalling that this has occurred, but we are working to deal with the situation as it unfolds.
HOST: Are you concerned that it could be six weeks before the leak is even stopped? That's an optimistic estimate. It may be sometime longer than that. Is it worthwhile deploying some extra resources or taking extra measures?
PM: We will take whatever additional measures are necessary based on the technical advice to deal with this appalling incident, and we are therefore waiting for any further recommendations from the Minister and his Department, working, of course, with other relevant authorities, but I would say that anything additional that can be done, both in terms of dealing with the slick that has occurred, dealing with the relief well and associated matters, we will take any further measures as are necessary.
HOST: I guess the problem with it, Mr Rudd, is that the company has to provide a lot of the information on this, and they are the cause of the spill. They are hardly likely to 'fess up to Mr Ferguson or to you or to the Department. We need some help here, because it doesn't reflect well on them.
PM: No, I therefore draw your attention to the fact that we do have the National Offshore Petroleum Safety Authority investigating the matter now. Therefore, absolute transparency will be required on the part of the company to the regulators. Otherwise, the company would not be being consistent with Australian legal and regulatory requirements.
We will therefore be taking every necessary measure in response to appropriate and considered technical advice to deal with what I agree with you is an appalling incident.
HOST: Mr Rudd, did you see the story on Channel Seven with regard to Schapelle Corby's state of mind? Did you see the story from the psychiatrist that she may be insane, and if you did see it, would you consider that she should be brought back to Australia for treatment?
PM: First of all, no, I did not, but secondly, when it comes to Schapelle Corby or any one of the other hundreds of Australians who are currently imprisoned abroad, either in Indonesia or in other countries, the responsibility of the Australian Government to look after each and every one of their well being to greatest extent that we can, and that means provision of consular support where we can provide it, other forms of support where we can do so, and where it's practically or physically possible, interstate or international prisoner transfer.
The practical problem on the latter score is, firstly, no prisoner transfer agreement exists between Australia and Indonesia, and I'm advised that none exist between Indonesia and any other country. Negotiations are underway.
And, of course, the second question is if and when we succeed in concluding those negotiations, which would be a world first for Indonesia, whether Schapelle Corby would be consistent with Indonesian Government determinations.
HOST: Is she getting the best possible care in Indonesia, Mr Rudd, in terms of mental health?
PM: Well, in terms of the conditions within prison systems around the world, and again I draw your listeners' attention to the fact that hundreds of Australians are currently in prisons which are of different standards to Australian prisons right around the world, we take our consular responsibilities seriously, which, in this case, through the Consulate-General in Bali, to provide her with every possible level of consular support. Obviously this is a very difficult time, as it is for any other Australian who is put in prisons abroad.
HOST: Her sentence is long, though. Hers is a special case, wouldn't we agree, 20 years, and a celebrated case, a case that most Australians would be aware of. Did anybody from the Federal Government at least ask the question, after the interview was aired, as to whether some additional support could be forthcoming for her?
PM:With or without any press attention, I just again emphasize the fact that despite the fact that the cases of hundreds of other Australians who are imprisoned abroad may not make it into the Australian media, our job is to provide maximum support for all of them, whether they make it into the Australian media or not.
Secondly, in the case of not just Ms Corby, but other Australians who are currently incarcerated in Indonesia, our job also is to look at the practicalities of such things as an international prisoner transfer agreement between Australia and Indonesia that has not existed in the past and therefore, on the practicalities of the application of such an agreement to Ms Corby, we've got to get all that right first.
In terms of support within the prison where she is, as I've said, I have every confidence that our Consulate-General is doing everything physically possible to support her and other prisoners in what is obviously a very, very difficult time.
HOST: OK, but after the interview was aired, from someone who's been described as a leading psychiatrists in Australia, no questions were asked as to her welfare and the treatment she was receiving?
PM: Simon, I do not have the formal detail or the chronology of when Australian officials spoke with Indonesian officials or those of the prison in Bali, and when they may have occurred and what the content of it may have been. What I can say is that we take her wellbeing and the wellbeing of every one of the other Australians in prison overseas in Indonesia and other countries seriously, and we provide whatever level of support we can, and can I say on any given day our officials around the world are engaged in similar visits, similar support exercises, similar representations to authorities, in countries right around the world.
HOST: Mr Rudd, next time I go to vote in a federal election, down at my local school, there could be a plaque or a sign on the ground that says 'new extensions provided by Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard and the Labor Party'. You wouldn't be the first political party to do that, let's be clear about that, but there's some concerns that this new signage may breach electoral laws.
PM: Well, first of all, no signage, under those circumstances, should under any circumstances, should refer to people like myself or the Deputy Prime Minister by name, that's the first thing. The second is, your right to point out that long-standing previous practice, including under the previous Coalition Government, has been to display appropriate signs which underpin the origin of the funding for the particular project.
But on the question you raised specifically about Australia's electoral laws, the Government will always act in response to the provisions of the Australian Electoral Act and the Australian Electoral Commission, and will do so in the future as well.
HOST: So you'll wait for a ruling on that?
PM: That's the right thing to do, but remember, as you rightly point out, the Government's not Robinson Crusoe on this one, and that is, taxpayers have a legitimate expectation to know how their taxes are being used, for which particular project, but that also has to be done in a manner which is absolutely compatible with Australian electoral law and the advice of the Australian Electoral Commission, and we will be entirely attentive to whatever that advice may be.
HOST: Mr Rudd, prior to the last election, and I think since, it's well known that you were pretty gung-ho on carbon emissions. You'd like to see Australia lead the way or set an example in terms of reducing carbon emissions. Are you satisfied that the Gorgon project off our North-West coast will safely store carbon dioxide?
PM: Well, as you know, one of the conditions that we've attached to the Gorgon Project, which as you point out is of massive economic consequence for Western Australia, and massive economic significance for the whole of Australia - $50 billion over the next 20 years - one of the conditions we've attached is carbon sequestration.
And therefore, the technical advice is that given the geography and the geomorphology of the area, the most appropriate place to sequester this, or put it under ground, is in and around Barrow Island. And therefore, what the Western Australian Government and the Australian Government have done together is provide an appropriate underpinning indemnification for that process.
Carbon capture and storage more generally, you'll be familiar with this Simon, is of general importance to the Australian economy because we are the world's largest coal exporting country. We are rich, of course, in natural gas. Therefore, the success of this technology worldwide is of fundamental importance to the future of the Australian resources sector.
That's one of the reasons why the Australian Government has launched a Global Carbon Capture and Storage Institute, which I launched jointly with President Obama in Italy last month, in July, but also why the Australian Government itself is investing $2.5 billion with industry to make sure these projects work, because the future, long-term future, of major resource projects in the coal and the LNG sector are fundamentally dependent on how the technology is rolled out, not just here, but worldwide.
HOST: Mr Rudd, I know that your credentials in this area, your push on carbon capture and reducing carbon emissions are well publicised and published, but why wasn't this carbon storage, this carbon capture, covered as part of the environmental planning process? I spoke to Mr Garrett when he signed off on the deal last week. He freely admitted that it's a deal between the State and the Federal Government in terms of indemnification as you just said, but it wasn't covered off during the environmental approval process. Why not?
PM:Well the provisions of the EPBC Act, the Environmental Protection of Biodiversity Act, the requirement under Australian law has been dealt with appropriately by the Environment Minister, Peter Garrett. And there's a whole series of internal, shall I say cooperative arrangements which occur within that Act between the WA and Australian governments for environmental protection.
I'm confident that the Minister has, and his State counterpart, properly discharged their responsibilities. When it comes to CCS, let's be frank about the fact - we are at the edge worldwide, at least of at-scale projects, of rolling these out.
They are challenging, new technologies. We'll be up front about that. They've been done for some time, as I'm advised, in various parts of the North Sea. I've had discussions about that with the Norwegian Prime Minister, Jens Stoltenberg. They've been done in one or two other projects at-scale around the world when it comes to gas.
But we have to move forward in this new area. As I said, the future viability and employment and economic and jobs consequences of large-scale resource projects, where states like Queensland, Western Australia, and prospectively South Australia have such key interests, we've got to get this right.
So the Ministers have done the right thing within the purview of their current Acts. I believe the two Governments, the Australian and WA governments, have done the right thing, in terms of the indemnification necessary concerning this new technology as well.
HOST: PM, when was the last time you purchased a book in Australia, and how much did you pay for it?
PM: You know something, Simon? I buy books about every weekend. What would be my last purchase price? I've got no idea, probably $29 or $39 - the usual sort of $9.95 at the end of it. What was it? I'm currently reading a book which was authored by a guy called John Keane, it's a biography of a fellow called Thomas Paine. I think I bought it in Abbey's bookstore in Sydney, but I stand to be corrected. I could have bought it in Canberra.
HOST: Do we pay too much for them in Australia? This business of the lifting of the importation duties on them, do we pay too much for books in Australia? What's your personal view?
PM: Nice try, Simon. I'm going to work my way through this one systematically. We've thrown this out to the Productivity Commission to provide us with a report on it. It's come back with its report. I have not had a chance to go through it yet. There have been a lot of other things on the Government's agenda.
We'll take this in our normal, measured way, work through the arguments for and against and come up with the right decision. But I've got to say to you, I have not put my mind across all the arguments on this one yet, and it's entirely normal that people in the Australian community are going to have different views, conflicting views, some overlapping views on this, but we'll get it as right as we can.
HOST: Alright. They do seem expensive on occasion, but there's always second-hand bookshops and borrowing one, I suppose.
PM: Well, there's interests here to work out, which is the cost to individuals buying books on the one hand, and the future of the Australian publishing industry on the other, Australia's long-term cultural interests. These are all factors which go into the mix. We've got to be mature enough to say that all these factors are involved, and not sort of turn a blind eye to any part of them when we work our way through a decision. So I actually welcome the debate, I think it's the right thing to do.
HOST: Mr Rudd, does Malcolm Turnbull have narcissistic personality disorder, as described by one of your colleagues?
PM: You know, Simon, I'm in Western Australia. I'm here for my 11th time as Prime Minister. I've got a lot on my plate. I'm going out to announce a new GP super clinic for the City of Cockburn today. I'm conducting a public consultation with Charles Gairdner Hospital today, and that's on the future of the health and hospital reform plan for the nation. Talking to the resources industry tomorrow. I've got plenty on my plate. I'll let the Liberal Party, shall I say, provide appropriate commentary on themselves by themselves. I don't think they need any assistance from me.
HOST: Alright, I'm not actually sure what it is. I might have it myself. I don't know. PM, finally-
PM: It's a horse at Randwick, isn't it?
HOST: Yeah. The AFL, the footy finals are upon us. Who are you getting on - not necessarily betting on, but who does your heart say we will the AFL Grand Final?
PM: Well, as you know I'm a Brisbane Lions man - and could there be any other possible outcome? - but going into how things are currently shaping up, I've been looking at the Saints' form. Of course, they've had a few challenges of late. But in terms of who's going to make it to the Grand Final - anyone's pick just at this stage. But I think it's going to be exciting for everybody, exciting for everybody. It's a wonderful thing.
My big problem, by the way, is that the G20 Summit in Pittsburgh hosted by President Obama, which Australia is a member of, is convened up until late Friday, and with the best will in the world, I won't be flying back and being in Melbourne, here in Australia, for it.
HOST: That is un-Australian isn't it? Holding the G20 the day before, up until the Grand Final?
PM: Well, I did mention this to the White House. You know - had they heard of the AFL Grand Final? Couldn't they shift it, as an element of the global timetable to meet the AFL. It met with a fairly, sort of, stunned silence.
HOST: Mr Obama doesn't care about the Brisbane Lions either, I suspect?
PM: Well I think if you were to put the Superbowl on that day, maybe they'd have a different view.
HOST: Yeah, I think they would. Mr Rudd, thanks for talking to us today, and thanks for talking to the listeners. We do appreciate your time.
PM: Simon, it's good to be back in Perth. Thank you.