MITCHELL: On the line from Darwin is the Prime Minister. Mr Rudd, good morning.
PM: Good morning Neil.
MITCHELL: Is it time to start restricting social interaction?
PM: Neil, I think the important thing to do, as you have just quite responsibly said to your listeners, is wait till the advice of the medical authorities. The Commonwealth, from the beginning of this, has been working with the states through the Chief Medical Officer and we have sought to upgrade measures every step of the way, consistent with the advice from the health professionals.
Therefore, when it comes for example, for actions on school closures, that's in response to the advice of the health professionals, similarly actions in relation the use of antivirals, decisions concerning the purchase of vaccines, done in response to the health professionals. That's what we will do into the future.
So on your specific question about public venues, let's simply wait for advice. I think that is the responsible course of action. And I think all your listeners, all Australians, are legitimately concerned about this influenza across Australia, swine influenza, as are people around the world.
The challenge for us is to make sure we work our way through this calmly and methodically and act in response to each piece of advice that we receive, bearing in mind that on critical questions such as the stockpiling of antivirals, Australia is probably per capita the best prepared country in the world.
MITCHELL: Are you looking at mass immunisation?
PM: What the Health Minister, I believe, announced yesterday was that the Government had placed an order with CSL for swine flu vaccine. The vaccine is expected to be developed in a few months.
Doses will be purchased for about 10 million people, based on current expert advice, sufficient to contain spread and protect those at risk of complications. That is when it comes to the vaccine. The antivirals, which both Relenza and Tamiflu, as you know we have already stockpiled something in the order of eight or nine million courses and the Minister announced yesterday a further 1.8 million courses would be added as well.
MITCHELL: How would you decide who to vaccinate?
PM: On that question again Neil, we always respond to the advice of the health professionals. And therefore I think it is important to wait until we have first of all, an (inaudible) vaccine if developed, CSL are engaged in that work now and it's detailed complex scientific work, and secondly the health professionals will advise in terms of where it is going to be most and best used.
I think that is the right course of action. Similarly for example with decisions on the release of doses of Tamiflu or Relenza from the national stockpile to various states and locations, that is done on the basis of the advice of the health professionals as well.
MITCHELL: Okay but do you have a procedure where you say, okay this is when we move to this level as the World Health Organisation does, where we will ask people to restrict social engagement, that sort of thing?
PM: Well there is a spectrum of measures which go through each gradation of the influenza spread and as I said before we would take each of those steps calmly and methodically on the way through.
This, as I said just before in our interview Neil, I can understand people's concern about this. Flus, when they hit Australia each year, I am advised, affect around about 10 per cent of the population. We must therefore do, as the Chief Medical Officer said the other day, our absolute best to make sure that we can do better than that. And of course the proper deployment of antivirals and vaccines is one way of doing that.
Other containment measures, for example school closures and other decisions, are part and parcel of the process as well.
MITCHELL: Do you travel with Tamiflu yourself?
PM: No I don't. Well not that I am advised that I do anyway. So when I travel abroad, I am usually travelling with a medical doctor, as did Mr Howard before me but I haven't actually gone up to the doc and said, what have you got in your bag.
I wouldn't have a clue what he has got in his bag.
MITCHELL: It must be a concern though that this could, this could develop into a full scale epidemic.
PM: Well I believe it is really important Neil to be vigilant and calm. We are well served by among the best health professionals in the world, who are intimately globally linked with the spread of this influenza in other parts of the world.
The only advantage of this particular influenza hitting in other parts of the world first is that our experts have been able to study the type of spread of the disease in other countries in order to get as early as possible advice on how it should be best contained in our country as well.
Secondly as I have said, the stockpiling of our antivirals is probably, on a per capita basis, one of the best provisions anywhere in the world. And of course, why is that relevant? When people are confirmed as having swine flu, then the early administration of the antiviral, either Relenza or Tamiflu, I am advised by the CMO, is effective.
MITCHELL: And the vaccine is ordered is it? Because as of yesterday midday, it wasn't?
PM: My advice this morning Neil is that the Commonwealth has placed an order with CSL for swine flu vaccine as I said, for purchases to cover about 10 million people. And that again is based on the Chief Medical Officer's advice. And what we are waiting for of course is for the actual completion of the scientific work, the technical work on the actual finalisation of the composition of the vaccine itself, as you would be familiar with the preparation of any flu vaccine.
MITCHELL: Oh yeah sure. But they did tell me that there were three other countries in before us and they were a little anxious about that, but if it is ordered, that is the key thing.
I wonder if you mind if we take a call, because a lot of people would sort of like some reassurance or some help here in the way it is being handled. Yes Maria, go ahead Maria.
CALLER: Mr Rudd, with no disrespect, but you have no idea. My son was confirmed positive yesterday afternoon. I had to fight on Tuesday night at the hospital for him to be tested because he had a fever of 39.5. They had no swabs, I could hear them ringing everywhere to find supplies. It was worse than a third world country. I am ropable. I still don't know what I am meant to be doing.
MITCHELL: Have you spoken to the hotline Maria?
CALLER: I can't get through. I am just beside myself; this is just not good enough Mr Rudd. It's not good enough. You have not been prepared; the medical staff are not prepared. I had to go to be tested myself yesterday and I was mortified when I walked into the northern hospital, it looked like something from MASH. It is, is just not good enough.
MITCHELL: Ok so what do you need, you need help with advice on what to do?
CALLER: I would like to know what I am meant to do. Am I supposed to not walk out the door? I mean they did say be quarantined now. What does that mean? My son has not been given any medication.
They have put me on Tamiflu. He's sick and just miserable and I don't know what to do.
MITCHELL: How old is he?
CALLER: He is 19.
MITCHELL: Okay Mr Rudd any thoughts?
PM: Well Maria I can understand fully your concern, particularly if you've been to the hospital and had that experience that you have just described. Can I suggest two things? As soon as you get off the program this morning, leave Neil with your number.
I will have someone from the Health Minister's office ring you personally within the hour to work out where you fit right now, best within the system, and your son.
If you have not been able to get through to the established hotline of 1802007, which provides general information to the public on how to respond to this, then that is the next best provision of advice I can provide at this stage and we will seek to fill the gap that you have experienced in the system yourself.
MITCHELL: Are you happy to do that Maria?
CALLER: Yeah, but my other complaint is Neil, why were we not told where the flu was originated from. My son ate at Epping Plaza McDonald's on Sunday and we didn't know. He would not have gone there if it was disclosed. I am so angry.
MITCHELL: That isn't the Prime Minister's responsibility, Maria, but I couldn't agree with you more. Hold on, we will get your number off air. They were too slow to react to the problem, the confirmed case in the staff at the Epping's Plaza McDonald's. And only in fact when we revealed it did they close the place for 24 hours.
Hang on Maria, we will get a number for you. Prime Minister, if it is okau, we will take a break and come back with some other issues.
AD BREAK
MITCHELL: We will move on to other matters, but Prime Minister thank you, your office has already been in contact during that ad break and has got the number for Maria who is so distressed and also Nicola Roxon, the Health Minister's office has been on the line as well, so that is a very quick reaction, thank you for that.
PM: That's okay, Neil. I understand Maria's concern and what she said just before about early advice about where outbreaks of flu have occurred and localities. This is where actually, operation of programs like yours are really important to get information up and out there.
But I think in defence of the medical authorities - this is really tough, it is a bit like tracing where, you know, in a normal season, an influenza is occurring, particular locations, so there is, there are always going to be gaps in the information chain.
But I know that our health professionals are doing their absolute best to make sure the right information is got out as early as possible.
MITCHELL: We will also get on to the state health minister obviously. But thank you for that. Now something else is you cabinet getting a bit self-indulgent?
PM: By the way, can I just add one other thing. If it is of use to your program and to programs like it, I will speak to the CMO about, I mean I have just been reflecting upon Maria's distress just before, whether it is worthwhile and subject to your own views, having the CMO or someone representing him periodically taking calls on programs like yours to answer direct questions from the public. So you think that through and if that is of use, come back to us.
MITCHELL: More than happy to do that. I think that would be an excellent idea if he felt was a good thing to do, we are more than happy to make the time available.
PM: I will let your office sort it out with the Health Minister's office. I was just listening to her distress before, I think information is really important.
MITCHELL: I agree, I agree, we will get on to Nicola Roxon's office immediately.
Now is your government getting a bit self-indulgent, $3.7 million on plaques at schools saying you built them?
PM: Well I am not even sure about the accuracy of that number. But I have got to say Neil, we are out there investing in, I think $15 billion, going into schools for school modernisation.
MITCHELL: Yeah that is terrific, why do we need a plaque boasting about it?
PM: Well I tell you what we are not doing, is spending $120 million on television advertising Work Choices.
MITCHELL: Well that's history. I mean why do we need $3.7 million on plaques?
PM: Well part of the information I received this morning was that in previous times, not necessarily in all cases, but P&Cs and P&Fs with their particular upgrades may have been asked -
MITCHELL: Sorry what is a P&C and a P&F?
PM: P&C is a Parents and Citizens association and a P&F are Parents and Friends association, depending on what part of the country you are in. I don't know what it is called in your part of the world but there you go.
The parent bodies attached to schools in certain circumstances, when building enhancements would occur, would be asked themselves to actually fork out for a plaque or whatever. We don't think that is the right thing to do -
MITCHELL: But why do we need a plaque saying ‘Kevin Rudd built this'
PM: I don't think it will be saying that. If it had anything to do with that, it wouldn't be being done at all.
MITCHELL: Okay well why are you spending - but that is only one example. There is $60,000 sending four staff, first class, to London with Wayne Swan for the G20. Now business class, fair enough, but first class?
PM: Well as I'm advised, the arrangements that are in place of the travelling entitlements for the current Treasurer's office are identical with the previous Treasurer's office
MITCHELL: Well let's change them. Why not change them? We are in tough times.
PM: Let me just explain one thing, is that if for example, I know the Treasurer very well I have known him for years, you are being sent around the world on a regular basis, to engage in international meetings on the state of the global financial crisis and our response to it, then it follows in using the flight that you actually need an opportunity to work with your staff on the flight.
I presume that is the reason for it, I presume that is why Mr Costello had the same arrangement. I think that is a practical reason.
MITCHELL: So why did Peter Garrett take 12 people with him to Chile and spend $200,000? Did they fly first class?
PM: I don't have the details concerning that particular -
MITCHELL: You ‘ve even got a Labor Senator, Jacinta Collins, stacking on a turn because she had to travel by taxi rather than limo. I mean, you put all these things together and it looks self-indulgent.
PM: Well people will say that from time to time about any Government, Neil, and we will take criticism where it is due. But can I say more broadly, the Government is a very hard-working Government and the Ministers are out there working hard across the country, travelling a lot within Australia and making sure that we are getting out and about with the community.
That means a fair bit of travel. For example most recently I was attending a community cabinet meeting at the Emerald Secondary College in outer Melbourne.
And when that happens, let me just give you an example, we travel, all members of the cabinet. On top of that you have the senior public servants from your department travel. Why do we do that? To take the entire business of cabinet out to the community to expose ourselves to the local community for a large slice of time. Our predecessors never did that.
MITCHELL: Nobody's criticising travel, Prime Minister, but first class travel (inaudible)
PM: We got attacked by the others for doing that precisely. We would actually defend that sort of action, to make sure we are out there in the community.
MITCHELL: As I say, you put them all together, and then sending money to dead people and people who are overseas. I mean you add all that together and there is a perception here of waste in tough times - indulgence and waste.
PM: Can I say, Neil, I just reject entirely what you just said about the sending of payments to the families of bereaved. I mean let's just put all of this into context. Firstly, when the previous Government made one-off payments, they went to persons who had paid or delivered a tax return in the previous financial year.
That occurred in the case of the previous Government when they made one-off payments to what is called the low income tax offset -
MITCHELL: But why do we keep going back to the previous Government? I mean you assured us you would do it differently, and yet you are using the example of wasted money on advertising, which they did, but you were going to be better.
PM: Well Neil if you allow me to finish the sentence, I'll probably get through it. What I am saying is that first of all, that is what has occurred in the past. Secondly, as far as the deceased are concerned, this is where I disagree with you.
The payments that have been made in relation to deceased estates, people have died basically within the last year, are going to people in highly distressed circumstances.
If tax has been paid by the person who is now deceased, then I think it is fairly hard hearted to say that a payment should not therefore go to the estate.
MITCHELL: But you wanted this money spent quickly, if it is going to be tied up in a deceased estate, it is not going to be spent quickly.
PM: Well it is not necessarily going to be tied up for long period of time. Can I say with respect Neil that we have had communications from people in the public who have been in these circumstances, who have made very immediate use of these payments for reasons which are immediately related to loss of their loved one.
All I am saying is, in this particular debate and fair cop with any criticism of what the Government is doing, right, wrong or indifferent, but in terms of the families of the deceased, I do draw the line here. I think these people, and right around the country, that lost loved ones are often in very difficult circumstances in the last 12 months, should be treated with more respect that has occurred in the debate, certainly in the Parliament, yesterday.
MITCHELL: Okay, superannuation, will you rule out restricting accessibility to super until the age 67?
PM: We have absolutely no plans to make any change along those lines.
MITCHELL: But it is the recommendation in the Henry report, is it not?
PM: I am unaware of where Ken Henry will land on those questions, because he is not due to report until year's end. But in direct answer to your question, we have absolutely no plans in that respect.
MITCHELL: Well you know it is being debated and suggested, would you rule it out?
PM: Well can I just say Neil that the remit of the Henry review on taxation covers every element of taxation, and therefore, its treatment therefore of superannuation as well. Obviously therefore, the Henry Commission will look at all of those things in their totality.
All I can say to you is what the position of the Government is, that we have absolutely no plans to make any change of the type you have just described.
MITCHELL: You have no plans, but if it is put in front of you would you consider it or would you rule it out?
PM: You know something Neil, public servants constantly put a thousand things in front of you. That happens every day in Government. It happens with every minister in Government. But I can tell what the direction of the Government is on this one, and that is we have absolutely no plans to do that.
MITCHELL: Are you locked in to 67 for the pension? Till 2023?
PM: Neil, this is a very tough decision, but we stand by it and the reason we stand by it is because first of all we have done the right thing to give people a lot of notice. This does not become fully operational until 2023.
Secondly, if we are going to increase the age pension, your program, legitimately has run a long standing campaign to increase the level of the single age pension, which we delivered in the Budget, in very difficult financial circumstances.
Our challenge over time is to make the pension and retirement incomes policy financially sustainable for Australia in an ageing population. That is why governments right around the world are increasing the pension age.
MITCHELL: (inaudible) struggling to get to 65, and he has to work to 67? What does he do?
PM: Neil, this is a very legitimate question and this is a discussion we had within the parliamentary Labor party on this matter during the course of this week. And that is, obviously people are engaged in various forms of physical work, who in many cases are leaving the work force now, well before the age of 65.
Then we are going to have lift our effort over the next decade or so to create more and more training opportunities for people in these categories to qualify for other forms of employment.
And that is going to require an overall shift in the way in which we do things. If there is a lot of intense physical work, by the time workers in particular in their late 50s or early 60s, often that is becoming very very tough.
That is the case now. A lot of people are exiting the workforce well before the age of 65 at present, so I think, creatively what we have got to work on, is people in those areas of employment, how do we assist them transition to other areas of employment through really intelligent interventions in the workplace, and that is providing new and better training opportunities.
MITCHELL: A couple of very quick issues before we go if I may. The Indian Government has raised issues about the number of Indian students being bashed in Australia. Are you concerned by it?
PM: I am concerned about any act of violence in the streets and suburbs of Australia's cities and towns and particularly when we are obviously hosts to students from around the world. I also know that our law enforcement authorities are doing a first class job, but I can understand concerns from various parts of the world which crop up from time to time when particular students of particular nationalities have been the subject of violence.
It is appalling in every sense. Any act of violence, any decent human being just responds with horror at the sorts of attack which have occurred recently. But the key thing is to make sure our law enforcement authorities are doing the best they can. I am confident they are.
MITCHELL: These five people trapped in Papua, the five Australians, the suggestion is they are being paid off for our action against illegal fishing in Australia. Can you do anything to get them out?
PM: The normal processes with the handling of consular cases, including this one in Papua, have been gone through. The full and most recent details I don't have with me but all I do know is that the Australian Embassy consulate staff have provided extensive assistance to the Australians since shortly after their initial detention. They have maintained a continuous presence in that part of Papua since I think September of '08, until January of '09, after which Australian consular officials have made frequent visits to the area to check on their welfare.
The last visit occurred in May. Next visit is due to occur in June. We are working with the Indonesian authorities to do whatever we can. This like every other consular case is always complex.
MITCHELL: Thank you for your time, are you a bad boss?
PM: Um, I think you have asked me this once before.
MITCHELL: Yeah I noticed somebody raised it again. But I tell you what I would like to know, have we -
PM: My response to that question Neil is, and I think my response in the past has been this - I work hard. The Government works hard. My Ministers work hard. And as a consequence, from time to time, people will find that a bit tough, I understand that but if you are in the midst of some very, very big challenges out there, like the global recession, huge impact on jobs, some of the decisions you and I have just been talking about, you know something (inaudible) -
MITCHELL: I am sorry, we have run out of time.