UHLMANN: Prime Minister, good morning.
PM: Good morning.
UHLMANN: Now we'll get to Queensland and other election matters in a moment. But another Australian has died in Afghanistan. What can you tell us?
PM: This is another sad day, a very sad day for the nation. Yes, yesterday in Afghanistan we were advised by the Chief of Defence Force that we have lost another Australian. This was an incident involving an improvised explosive device. Further details will be released later, including the soldier's name, as contact is still being made with the family.
UHLMANN: Prime Minister, your workplace bill has been returned by the Senate. What will you do?
PM: It's quite clear that the Government has a mandate to provide proper protection from unfair dismissal for Australian workers. Let me be very clear about what we took to the people at the last election: we said that an employee who is employed by an employer who employs fewer than 15 employees must have been in employment for 12 months. That's the exact provision that we took to the Australian people. We were absolutely clear-cut about the 15 cut-off.
Why is that important? Because if you were to accept the amendments which were put through the Senate last night, it would leave another half-a-million Australians out there without effective protection from unfair dismissal. Our mandate's clear.
Mr Turnbull, as Leader of the Opposition, only three months ago said he accepted our mandate. That's why we believe it is absolutely right to do this. Mr Turnbull changes his position by the day -
UHLMANN: Alright, so what will you do Prime Minister? Do you amend the Bill again and send it back to the Senate today?
PM: Our intention is to do exactly that because our mandate is clear-cut. And I believe that in a global economic crisis, where you have a global recession and people are concerned legitimately about their jobs because of that, what the Australian people expect is for their Government to provide proper protection and for us to be able to implement that for which we got a clear vote at the last election.
UHLMANN: And if the Senate rejects it again, is it time to take it back to the Australian people?
PM: Our intention is to put this back to the Parliament today and I would expect the Australian Parliament to respect the will of the Australian people, stated absolutely clearly at the last election.
UHLMANN: Prime Minister, how does pushing up the cost of labour protect jobs?
PM: Our belief is that when you look at all the measures that this Government and, for example, governments like the Queensland Government, are investing in the economy through infrastructure; we are out there supporting jobs at the same time as the global economic recession is having an effect on pulling jobs out as well. But -
UHLMANN: But you're making labour more expensive.
PM: But what we believe is that the right thing to do, consistent with our undertaking to the Australian people, is to provide proper protections.
UHLMANN: But those protections cost money and business has to pay it.
PM: But can I say to you that the overall balance in our workplace relations reforms is right. We crafted this over a long period of time in Opposition; a lot of consultation with Julia Gillard and business over the last 12 months to get the balance right. This is part of the balance, and if you're out there and you're one of half-a-million or so workers who would be thrown to one side by Mr Turnbull and his latest flip-flop on policy, well, that's a matter for Mr Turnbull -
UHLMANN: Prime Minister, I can just establish this. You say you're pushing the balance back and you're pushing it back towards employees, that makes the cost of labour more expensive for employers, doesn't it? And your award changes will do the same thing. How does that protect jobs?
PM: The whole challenge with a workplace relations system is to get the balance right, and in the economy overall to make sure that we are doing the right thing to provide support for economic activity.
You've got workplace relations here, implementing our mandate, getting the balance right, and at the same time, us quite clearly investing a large amount of money in the economy at a time of global recession to lift the prospect of further jobs in the economy.
UHLMANN: And in a time of global recession, do you need to make the cost of labour more expensive? Won't that just mean that employers will not hire people?
PM: At a time of global economic recession, what you need to do is to honour your word, get on with the business of providing proper protection for people in the workplace, as we said we would, as Mr Turnbull said we had a mandate to do, and if you are one of those half-million Australians right now, you're going to be looking for the protection which we promised to give them. Only the Senate and the Liberal Party stand in the way of that.
UHLMANN: One last question. Doesn't more expensive labour mean less jobs?
PM: What you do, as far as overall economic management is concerned, is you advance on a range of fronts. You get out there, you invest in infrastructure to support jobs, you provide payments to people to support 1.5 million employees in the retail sector, you are out there across a whole range of different policies supporting jobs in the economy, and at the same time, as part of a balanced overall approach, giving proper protections to people in the workplace.
UHLMANN: Prime Minister, you're heading off overseas. Among other things, you'll be seeing the US President Barack Obama. Isn't it true to say that until the United States fixes its banking system, there will be no solution to this crisis?
PM: The problem of so-called 'toxic assets' on bank balance sheets is the absolute core of the global economic problem, and that means toxic assets on the big banks, be they in America, be they in Europe or elsewhere. Therefore that's why the big progress that we made at the G20 finance ministers meeting last weekend, attended by Australia, to get a common set of principles to deal with this is one step forward.
Because you're right - we need to see action across the board from all governments with these major troubled banks because until we see the return of private credit flows in the economy globally, then we're always going to be placed in this position of using things like budget policy, investment in infrastructure and the rest to support jobs on the way through. That's our strategy, that's why we're active nationally, that's why we're active internationally.
UHLMANN: And until the banks are fixed, fiscal stimulus is throwing more good money, more good money after bad.
PM: Every government in the world, every government in the world is engaged in direct economic stimulus because we are in the midst of the worst economic recession globally since the Great Depression. Therefore right across that group of G20 countries you see economic stimulus being employed to support jobs while we try and restore private credit flows through the banking system.
One party stands in the way of that in Australia - that's the Liberal and National Party. They are out there, saying that somehow you should just throw all these people to the wolves -
UHLMANN: But you're throwing money at something that won't be fixed until the banking system is fixed, Prime Minister. Is just because every other government in the world is doing it reason enough?
PM: Can I say that we embarked upon this course of action before most governments around the world had embarked on this sort of action. It's simply the best advice to follow when you have an unprecedented, virtually unprecedented global economic downturn. If you're going to support jobs, you've got a policy to do it. Otherwise, you're out there and saying that in the midst of a global economic storm, like the Liberals and Nationals, throw everyone to the elements and let them look after themselves.
UHLMANN: Prime Minister, tired, old, out of touch, failing to properly invest in infrastructure and failing to take advantage of the mining boom - now isn't that just as true of Anna Bligh's Government as it was when you said it of John Howard's?
PM: When you're faced with a global economic crisis, you've got a big choice on your hands: either you're out there, through investment and infrastructure supporting jobs, or you're doing, as Mr Springborg says, rip a billion dollars out of the budget and allow 12,000 police, teachers and nurses to be thrown to the wolves and onto the unemployment queue.
That's a very clear alternative, and you know something? It is an ideological choice.
UHLMANN: Well, the public sector union says you've thrown 3,000 public servants on to the unemployment queue.
PM: Well we have a rolling set of argy-bargy with public sector unions nationally which goes back a long time. But I can say that we have a strong course of action to support jobs in the economy.
But here is the absolute rub: If you're in the midst of this sort of crisis, what you need is competent leadership. And when I look at Lawrence Springborg, someone I have looked at carefully over 20 years when I worked in the Queensland government, what I see is a person who's simply not up to the job.
That's not a party-political comment. You know why? Because when I look at someone like the WA Liberal Premier, we have our differences, but I look at somebody who basically is across his brief. That's my experience of him so far. When I look at Lawrence Springborg, I see someone who is not up to the job.
And when you look also at the possibility of a minority Springborg government, this I think is a further cause for uncertainty when the people of Queensland and Australia want certainty in the midst of a global recession.
UHLMANN: Prime Minister, thank you.
PM: Thank you.
[ends]