MITCHELL: Mr Rudd, good morning.
PM: Good morning.
MITCHELL: It's the sort of incident isn't it, in Mumbai, that really just shakes the whole world, shakes you up?
PM: It does. I mean, there's this whole range of emotions from fear, anger, disbelief. Many people I'm sure listening to your program have been to Mumbai or had friends who have either lived there or have studied there or have been through. But because it's such a cosmopolitan centre, people are there from all over the world, and it's this horrible reminder that terrorism is no respecter of international political boundaries.
MITCHELL: What's the most recent information you have? Are there still two Australians dead?
PM: I spoke to the Australian High Commissioner, John McCarthy, in Mumbai about an hour or so ago. We have a team of about 10 or 12 Australian consular and diplomatic officials who are working in shifts around the clock to go through lists of hotel registrations, corroborating those with local hotel and police authorities, and then seeking to make contact.
What we have indicated so far is that we have one confirmed dead, that we have three confirmed injured. Beyond that, we have grave concerns about one other. But, beyond that, we are still working our way methodically through these lists. We want to be very careful about this, Neil.
MITCHELL: There is a delegation from Monash University there in Melbourne, they're all okay. But the New South Wales education delegation (inaudible)
PM: (Inaudible) details, at this stage, Neil, because it is very, very detailed work. Our consular staff on the ground are working through this as methodically as they can, supported by Australian police and other authorities back here in corroborating information from home, information from hotel registrations, and information from the local police authorities.
You don't want to get any of this stuff wrong.
MITCHELL: Yeah, fair comment. The tactics have changed here, haven't they. I mean, this isn't a bomb set off, this is a deliberate assault of individuals on the ground against Westerners?
PM: That's right. And we convened a meeting of the national security committee of the Cabinet yesterday to be briefed by the intelligence community and others about this group as it describes itself. I think concerning what many others have said around this world, a group by this name has not been known so far, we understand, to the western intelligence community. There are, however, other terrorist organisations which have been active in India in recent times.
The tactics are obviously designed to maximise the impact on the Indian economy. Mumbai is India's financial centre. It is driven, I think, as Greg Sheridan rightly says in The Australian today, by a high degree of envy and contempt of the success that we see in so many aspects of Indian society, and in the economy. But, of course, in this globalised world, Australians, Brits, Canadians, Americans, others travelling around the world, as that extraordinary discussion that you referred to just before with Justice Guest indicates that you become the unwitting victims in this act of cold-blooded murder.
MITCHELL: Is there a possibility that it will have the desired impact on India? That it will affect the economy?
PM: I've spoken most recently to Prime Minister Singh at the G20 Summit in Washington about a week or so ago. What I'd say about Prime Minister Singh and his government is that they are a pretty resilient mob. The Foreign Minister Stephen Smith spoke to his counterpart, Foreign Minister Mukherjee, or External Affairs Minister Mukherjee last night, offering the Indians any form of practical police or security assistance that they would need at a time like this.
I think it's fair to say that the resolve of the Indians is very strong. They've known terrorist attacks in the past. And this is the challenge we all face. When terrorism strikes, do you haul up the white flag and choose not to resume a normal life, or do you get on with it?
And if you look at what the good people New York have done in the last several years, those in Washington, those other centres around the world, whether it's Madrid or other centres, the right response is to get on with it, at the same time making even more vigilant our counter terrorism cooperation with other countries.
MITCHELL: Australians are notoriously world travellers. The number of young Australians, university students, in Mumbai at the moment is showing that. Do we have to continue that? There might be a temptation for people to say, ‘no, I'll stay home'?
PM: Well, my only advice for anyone listening to your program Neil, and it's serious advice, is that whenever mums and dads or kids are thinking about travelling, please, please, please sit down and taken half an hour to get online, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade website, and have a read.
What is put up on that website in terms of travel advisories on individual countries, and where possible cities within countries, is the best information we have about threats to security in those places. Please have a long close and hard look at that. It's put there based on the best information available.
For example, in relation to Mumbai, as of the 31st of October, the travel advisory said that Australians should exercise a high degree of caution when visiting India, and that there were, and I quote, unconfirmed information suggesting terrorists maybe planning attacks in Mumbai, possibly against hotels and tourist sites unquote. This is the sort of stuff which all of our diplomats, our consular officials around the world and the intelligence community spend their life doing - getting this information together. And we try and put it out through the travel advisories to provide as much information as possible so people will make intelligent decisions.
MITCHELL: Is there a possibility al-Qaeda is behind this?
PM: We don't know is the honest answer to that, Neil. As I said before, the group that has claimed responsibility for this so far, I'm advised, is not known to the intelligence community. But more broadly, other terrorist organisations we know have been highly active in India in recent terrorist attacks.
It's a reminder to us about the need to maintain absolute vigilance and a hardline approach to counter-terrorism laws in Australia and procedures and proper resources.
And secondly, you know, this is where it gets really hard. At any one time, we've got a million Australians offshore. We're a country of 21 million - one million of our people are offshore at any one time. Anywhere from Washington DC to Wagadubi, right across the world and that means there is a huge demand, legitimate demand placed on the government to provide as much physical support to those one million Australians at any one time.
But the terrorist threat and security threat obviously differ from country to country.
MITCHELL: Is it possible this could be designed as a message to Barack Obama?
PM: Look, I'm in no position to speculate on that because what we don't have is that - what we don't have is a clear identification yet of where these individuals fit in to the overall terrorist network.
India seems to be blaming Pakistan. Again, let's wait for the interrogation of those who have been incarcerated and let's wait for further cooperation from the Indian police and intelligence authorities before we reach any conclusions, but it's very important, very important, that we establish the facts.
The other thing to emphasise, Neil, that this saga continues to unfold in Mumbai and -
MITCHELL: Well there might still be Australians at risk, may there not?
PM: As I said before, we're still working our way through those lists. As of my discussions this morning with the High Commissioner, there had still been fighting at the Oberoi Trident Hotel. There were still concerns in other parts of the city as well and of course there now, as I'm advised, breaking news with reports of further explosions in Mumbai, although this is unconfirmed and the embassy, or the High Commission's now seeking to confirm that.
MITCHELL: Okay, we'll do the same. Now onto another tragic issue - an Australian soldier killed in Afghanistan. Are you in a position to release his name yet?
PM: Not at this stage Neil. His next of kin were advised of this terrible, terrible loss to them only yesterday afternoon and once that had occurred then the Vice Chief of the Defence staff made a statement and I then followed.
And again, I'd simply say through your program to your listeners how saddened I am and the government is at the loss of this brave young man who has given his all, proudly wearing the uniform of Australia, and our deepest condolences go to his family.
MITCHELL: I hear speculation today, we may have to increase our numbers in Afghanistan. Do you think that's likely?
PM: We have no plans for any such increase Neil. I've said before to our friends in the United States that we believe our current commitments to Afghanistan are about right. I've also said to the Americans and to others we also believe that our commitment, while being there for the long haul, should be subject to annual review against the mission we've set for ourselves.
Remember, we went to Afghanistan after the terrorist attacks on September 11 which killed, murdered more than 3,000 people including a number of Australians. And we went into Afghanistan to eliminate that country as a base for basically unfettered global terrorist training and operational deployment by Al-Qaeda around the world.
We cannot surrender that country back again to Al-Qaeda.
MITCHELL: Prime Minister, we'll take a quick break and let you get a glass of water. You don't sound all that well. We'll take a quick break and come back with more from Kevin Rudd.
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MITCHELL: The Prime Minister is with us. Mr Rudd, just those explosions you mentioned - there's an agency report I've just been handed - two loud explosions heard near a Jewish centre in Mumbai where the Islamic militants are believed to be holed up. They came from an area inside Nariman House, a business and residential complex where the Jewish centre's located. We don't know any more than that.
PM: No, we're still trying to confirm those facts as well. I think the point which arises from what you just said, Neil, is that we're legitimately concerned about the impact on Australians. There are families around the world who are watching this with great anxiety including our friends in the Jewish community because again, Nariman House, which is a centre for the Jewish community in Mumbai has been one of the identified targets in this attack.
MITCHELL: Okay, now if we might move onto the economy - GST - would you look at cutting it to stimulate the economy?
PM: We've got no plans to do anything of that nature, Neil. We believe that the right thing to do is to provide a stimulus to the economy of the type that we did through the economic security strategy a month or so ago, that $10.4 billion strategy, but we'll do more in infrastructure soon.
MITCHELL: Okay, now as is happening to you no doubt, I've got the business community in my ear, regularly - couple of things -
PM: I'm surprised by that.
MITCHELL: (laughs) A couple of things have come forward. Would the government look at giving preference to Australian business, not just manufacturing but service industry as well, so if you're taking your government contract, give it to an Australian company?
PM: What we're bound by there, and I'll take advice on this and come back to your program Neil, is the rules of the World Trade Organisation. In other words, if every country around the world started to put up barriers about where they bought stuff, then the materials that we sell to foreign countries for use by foreign governments would start to be penalised. That's the problem.
But let me come back to you with a detailed answer on that because there are certain exclusions and I will strive to be accurate in the answer.
In terms of your broader point about business community suggestions, we're up for any proposal from the business community to consider. This is a challenge for all of us - business, unions, the entire community - as this global financial crisis hits the real economy and jobs in 2009 and we want to work constructively with the entire community to see Australia through.
MITCHELL: Are you looking for some wage restraint from unions?
PM: I believe in the period ahead, and I'd say this more broadly, profit restraint, executive remuneration constraints, and wage restraint may well be necessary, because what's our overriding objective in 2009? To support jobs. You see, this global financial crisis has three phases to it.
Firstly, a crisis in credit markets. That's what began in the United States and the cancer spread throughout the world.
Secondly, that then affecting the real economy with growth coming down as demand for goods and services has come down and confidence has tanked around the world.
And thirdly, the third phase is where that flows through to jobs. And why we are in the business of supporting stimulus packages for the economy is to provide the greatest possible support for jobs. And that $10.4 billion package we announced in October would normally be capable of generating 75,000 jobs.
That is the sort of stuff we will be doing.
MITCHELL: The other idea put to me by business - apparently Governments, state and federal Governments are notoriously slow payers. If they could speed that up they told me that it would help enormously.
PM: You know your business community friends have got something in that observation. When I, together with the Treasurer, addressed a small business summit in Brisbane about, from memory, a month ago, one of the proposals we put forward and I will come back to your program with the detail of it now is if the commonwealth does not pay its bill within a finite period of time, then anyone who hasn't had their bill paid gets to charge us interest.
And I issued that as a commonwealth directive. I think the statistic I had at the time is that 94, 95 per cent of the Commonwealth bills were paid within the agreed period. But I am out for not having small business having to cop any problem, particularly when their profit lines are going to be challenged by the crisis.
MITCHELL: You have got the COAG meeting this weekend, will the deal be done on infrastructure spending, will the states find out what they are getting?
PM: No, this weekend is not about infrastructure spending, that comes later. What we are on about in this COAG meeting is the work we have been doing all year in two or three critical areas. One, the future of federal investment in our hospitals and health system over the next four to five years.
In the past, the previous Federal Government walked away from that. We have got to provide a better growth formula for our public hospital funding for the future. That is the first thing, as well as dealing with the workforce needs of the hospital and health system as well.
Second, on education.
MITCHELL: Just before we leave health, $6.5 billion extra for public hospitals, is that right?
PM: We have indicated already to the states overnight what our proposal would be on the numbers. And you know something Neil? I reckon there is going to be some argy bargy, when we actually sit around the table.
MITCHELL: But is $6.5 billion the starting point, because that has been reported today?
PM: Yes I have seen those reports. I am not in a position to confirm where the Treasurers' negotiations are up to.
MITCHELL: Imagine a state government leaking Prime Minister.
PM: I am so shocked Neil. I am sure you have never experienced that in your time.
MITCHELL: Not at all, not at all.
PM: At least not enough for 3AW, is that right?
MITCHELL: That's right. Now the situation with the men's health ambassadors. It was a silly error by the Minister wasn't it? But are you comfortable with Tim Mathieson, Julia Gillard's partner being one of them?
PM: Oh absolutely, he is a great bloke. And on the broader question, Nicola Roxon is a first class health minister. It is just life. I mean, mistakes happen, let's just be upfront about it. And she has taken it on the chin. Good on her. She is doing a fantastic job as Health Minister.
Tim's a great bloke. And the point about having health ambassadors is that this isn't a paid position. It is completely honorary. And that is, he is just doing it for, you know love and public duty. So good on him, I mean he is out there.
If you are a bit like me, Neil, blokes are notorious about not having any interest in their health until it sort of hits them between the eyes. And the more blokes you've got out there, average blokes, blokes in various positions around the country talking about it, about you know, what sort of check-ups you should get, what you should do on the preventative side, I think that is great.
MITCHELL: Well I agree with you. I hope he gets out there and sells as you said, no public talking yet.
PM: Well I am sure that will come. He is probably waiting for November to pass so he can get rid of his Movember. Do you do the moustache stuff by the way?
MITCHELL: No mine is permanent.
PM: You didn't remove it for Movember?
MITCHELL: No I should have done that. $800 million to computers within schools so when will, we are a year on from the election, when will kids have the computers?
PM: Okay, here is our commitment. $1.2 billion over five years. Our target is to achieve one is to one to students, student computer ratio by 2011.
We have done round one of funding, that is $116 million to 896 secondary schools across Australia. That funds 116,000 computers and already I am told that 16,000 computers are expected to be delivered by 31 December this year to 186 schools across Australia.
That is what we have done so far. Round two of the fund closed recently and a total of 1,420 schools across Australia applied - 793 Government, 342 Independent, 285 Catholic - and by the end of the year, all of these non government schools will be receiving funding for their computers as well.
MITCHELL: Ok, look thank-you for speaking to us, you are not too well. You have got a cold?
PM: I think it is just a lurgy, a lot of people get the lurgy at this time of year. But I have been at the G20 Summit on the global financial crisis in Washington I think a weekend or so ago, then back to Australia. Then we had the APEC summit in South America, also on the financial crisis and on the trade deal that we are trying to sort out for the world and then we have got COAG this weekend and stuff you and I have been talking about earlier in the program.
It has been a big week or so.
MITCHELL: When do you have a day off?
PM: I am looking forward like you are, Neil, to Christmas.
MITCHELL: Have you had a day off this year?
PM: Oh yeah, sure. I've had days off. But it has been a very, it's been a difficult year for everybody. You know people have been concerned out there in the community about the impact of this rolling financial crisis on them, firstly, and their businesses and jobs. And we as the Government have got a responsibility to burn the midnight oil to do whatever we can.
MITCHELL: But can you keep that travel schedule up, it has been extraordinary?
PM: Mate, I would happily not get on a plane again in my life. I really would. I mean, I used to be a diplomat and I have seen as much of the world as I would actually like to. But if in the national interest, I've got to travel - in the global financial crisis you've got to - and I will do so.
MITCHELL: Thank you very much for your time.
PM: Thanks Neil.