PAUL BONGIORNO: Good morning, Prime Minister, and welcome back to the program.
PM: Good morning, Paul, good to be here.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Let's just go to Hillary Clinton for a moment. You met her in Washington a month and a half ago. Are you sad to see her defeat?
PM: Well, she's an extraordinary human being. She shows in America what modern women in politics can do. This is a very tough game, politics in the United States, and for her to have run so close and run so well and so strongly for so long, I think she's right when she says it proves now what women in American politics can do.
Having said that, Senator Obama is a first-class human being and a first-class presidential candidate. So let's see what happens in the great American democracy.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Do you think the pressure is on him now to have as a running mate a woman, whether it's Hillary or another? I mean, you have a Deputy Prime Minister who does a good job.
PM: The last thing I'm about to do at the distance of some 10,000 miles across the Pacific is provide gratuitous political advice to the Democratic Party about who should be number one and who should be number two. Their own electoral process has determined who is number one.
I tell you what, though, Paul - it was only last year that Mr Howard as Prime Minister said that, ‘If any Democratic candidate wins the US Presidential election, including Senator Obama, that would-be a victory for Al-Qaeda'.
Mr Nelson was Defence Minister at the time. He didn't disagree with Mr Howard's statement then. I'll challenge Mr Nelson today to publicly distance himself from Mr Howard's remarks now that he is leader and alternative Prime Minister.
PAUL BONGIORNO: We do want to talk about your Japan trip but you have an announcement to make on humanitarian aid?
PM: One of the things that we've been working on with the United Nations with is the ongoing humanitarian crisis in Darfur. When I was in New York only a few months ago, I met with not just the UN Secretary-General, but basically all of his senior team.
They are greatly concerned about that rolling crisis. We've had about 2 million refugees created, possibly up to 200,000 deaths in this silent rolling tragedy. So they've asked us for help and what I've said was we'll provide what we can through the Australian Defence Force.
It's a modest contribution. We're sending a team of 10 military logisticians to form part of the United Nations command in the United Nations mission in Darfur. The Sudanese Government has reservations about any significantly large contributions from Western countries.
In other words, we've operated within the constraints of the host government. But we've got to act and help in a practical way and I believe, given that Australians always want to lend a helping hand when you have such continuing humanitarian atrocities as we've got in Darfur, a place I visited myself not long ago, I think it's the right way to go.
PAUL BONGIORNO: So that's, that's, nine ADF personnel and also $5 million in humanitarian aid?
PM: There's humanitarian assistance as well to assist with the ongoing challenges of the humanitarian agencies. But there's a massive effort being put together by the African Union and the United Nations. When finally formed, this, I am advised, will be one of the largest UN peacekeeping operations ever - some 20,000 altogether - but the frontline forces will be very much from developing countries acceptable to the Sudanese Government.
But for any frontline force to work, it's got to have a command structure. It's got to have logisticians - and that's the specific ask of Australia from the United Nations and, as a country which always prided itself in putting its hand up to help and to be a force for good in the world, my response has been 'yes'. It's a modest contribution but at least it's in the right direction.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Well, going to Japan - you're leaving shortly for Japan - is this a trip you should have made three months ago?
PM: Look, the relationship with Japan is in first-class working order. Japan is a relationship which Australia has which is based on strategic security and an economic partnership and based on enduring friendship. I've been to Japan quite a number of times before in various capacities.
PAUL BONGIORNO: But are you guilty of giving the impression that China is more important to you and to Australia than Japan?
PM: Japan is a partnership which is anchored in our comprehensive engagement on strategic matters, security matters and economic matters. It goes back a long time. The Asia Pacific region involves many important states. Japan is critical. Also, we've got other partners within the region as well. China and Japan between them are our largest trading partners.
They are huge, and so it's important to attend to all of these relationships. But I've got to say, with Japan the key challenge is making sure that we take this existing strategic security and economic partnership to the next stage, which is why, when I visit the Japanese, I'll be talking with Prime Minister Fukuda about how we increase our security cooperation as well.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Will it be all that receptive to you? After all, the Japanese were particularly incensed at the very hard line we took on whaling, especially of the release of the pictures of the whale and its calf. We seem to have backed off. We haven't named our whaling envoy and we seem to be sending signals we're not going to take them to the World Court?
PM: Well, what we're doing now, Paul, is what we always indicated which is that we'll seek to resolve this matter diplomatically, and I'll be having discussions with my Japanese counterpart on that. But we have clear principles when it comes to the proper protection of whales in the Southern Ocean. Japan has a different view.
We'll seek to resolve that diplomatically and let's see how the diplomacy runs. But this is a disagreement among friends. It's an important disagreement among friends, but I would draw everyone's attention to the fact that our position on the question of protection of whales hasn't changed one bit.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Will we be naming an envoy soon?
PM: I understand those processes are well in hand with the Environment Minister.
PAUL BONGIORNO: What about the legal challenge?
PM: Well, the key thing is diplomacy first. Let's see how we go. That's why I'm looking forward to the discussions with Prime Minister Fukuda. But our position on the importance of protecting whales has not changed but let's give diplomacy a go for the period ahead. There are several opportunities for that to be advanced, including through the upcoming meeting of the International Whaling Commission as well.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Prime Minister, we'll take a short break.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Well, Prime Minister, is the work/life balance you talked about in the run-up to the election - does that apply to the 60,000 Federal public servants?
PM: Of course it does. What I find remarkable about the Liberal Party on this one Paul, is that this is the party of WorkChoices, this is the party of AWAs, this is the party of stripping away penalty rates, overtime and all those basic conditions which working families and working Australians have fought so hard to get for decades.
Now we have crocodile tears from the Liberal party. Well, come on, give us a break. We were elected with a strong mandate to govern, a strong mandate of responsible economic management helping families under pressure and helping carers and pensioners and planning for the future - and that involves a solid, solid work ethic from the Cabinet and of course from the public service.
PAUL BONGIORNO: But surely that doesn't include people working 36 hours straight?
PM: I would draw your attention, Paul, to what the Secretary of the Treasury, Ken Henry, who has worked for the other mob for 12 years and prior to that, worked for us, and guess what - in and around Budget time and the wash-up from it, it's not unusual for some of your most senior public servants to work very intensive bursts. This is not something which has never happened before in the public service. I mean for goodness sake - I used to be a public servant myself.
I've worked through the night before, because part of the public service, when I was a public servant, is making sure you get the job done for the timeline which has been set, particularly if it involves legislation. So it's not common, but it's not unique.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Your original comments came after the leak of Cabinet documents which gives the impression that you're at war with your own public service or they're at war with you. PM: The Australian public service are a first-class operation. Their work ethic is great. Their professionalism is of high standards and this Government, the one that I lead, is committed to the restoration of Westminster, whereby we engage with the public service on their ideas. We will not always agree with their ideas, but we don't mind an argument, a discussion, a debate.
That's the way it should be. It's a spirit I sought to reflect also in the 2020 summit. We're actually open to ideas and it means that if a piece of paper is served up by a public servant's department providing their advice, that's important, that will be part of the debate, but it won't necessarily be the conclusion that the Government through Cabinet reaches.
That, I think is a sign of health in a democracy rather than the John Howard approach which says there is one answer, one answer alone, it's the John Howard answer alone and no-one put any piece of paper anything different or we'll blow your head off.
PAUL BONGIORNO: The other issue that is worrying families, working or not, is of course, the rising price of petrol, $1.70 with forecasts of $2 a litre by the end of the year. It's making the impression that you gave in the run-up to the election looking very tatty now, isn't it - that would you keep downward pressure on petrol prices?
PM: As you know, Paul, having covered the election carefully, each time Mr Swan or myself was asked directly could we guarantee that petrol prices or grocery prices would go down, we said no. And secondly we were attacked by Mr Costello, the Treasurer, for refusing to provide that guarantee prior to the election. Why?
Because it would have been irresponsible, absolutely irresponsible, as was Mr Howard's promise to keep interest rates at so-called record lows. Then they went up another 10 times. The bottom line is this - we've got a huge problem worldwide when it comes to oil prices and petrol prices.
When I go to the Japan I'm speaking to Prime Minister Fukuda. Next month he'll be hosting the G8 summit. One of the matters I'll be raising with him and writing to other G8 heads of government on is the global challenge of global oil supply right now, because what is happening in Australia is happening worldwide.
Every head of government across the world is dealing with this challenge now and it goes to global oil supply in large part, the role of OPEC. OPEC need to open the production lines to a greater extent, increase global oil supply. They've done it a bit in response to representations from President Bush. The G8 provides an opportunity to apply the blowtorch to the OPEC organisation - and it's time that happened.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Well, you, of course, have been battling the Opposition with FuelWatch. As the legislation came into the Parliament earlier in the week, this is what the Shadow Finance Minister had to say:
SHADOW FINANCE MINISTER PETER DUTTON: Now the Australian public would be horrified to know that a key element of FuelWatch is that petrol stations throughout that 24-hour period - or some say throughout a 48-hour period - will not be able to drop the price of petrol. How can that be competitive? How can that be to the advantage of consumers?
PAUL BONGIORNO: Isn't it interfering with the market?
PM: Well, the key thing here is competition policy. What we said prior to the election was, one: we couldn't guarantee lower oil prices or petrol prices - or for groceries. Secondly, what we would do would be to act to increase the competition power available to consumers, motorists and people going to shop.
We have done that by creating a petrol price commissioner, giving that commissioner for the first time powers to conduct formal monitoring of what's going on in the petroleum industry and beyond that other powers as it relates to diesel and LPG.
FuelWatch provides motorists with information in a given day. For example, in the last few days, if there's been a variation, as I understand there has been in Sydney, of 10 or 12 cents a litre from one petrol station to another in the metro area, we stand for allowing consumers to know that information.
Dr Nelson stands for only allowing that information to in the hands of the big oil companies. That's the difference.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Prime Minister, isn't the elephant in the room here climate change? The fact of the matter is that these fossil fuels are dangerous to our planet and they're going to have to be more expensive, especially once carbon trading comes in?
PM: Well, the challenge that we've got in dealing with climate change is to act responsibly, nationally and internationally, so that we don't extinguish the planet for future generations. That's basically the challenge. And secondly to do it in an economically responsible way. Remember the economic cost of inaction is far greater over time than the economic cost of action.
Our challenge is this. Mr Turnbull, the shadow treasurer, has already said that the Liberal Party in government was committed to including petrol in the Emissions Trading Scheme.
Our position is we will wait for Garnaut to come down. We'll examine the scope of the scheme. But what we've also said is that when it comes to those families who are under financial pressure, that we'll also be providing other forms of support to cope with any impact that flows to their overall cost of living as a consequence of any such change.
Dr Nelson is involved right now in the mother of all fear campaigns about this, but last year they said they, the Liberal Party, were committed to emissions trading. Last year they said they'd include petrol. Last year Mr Howard said that, if you act in this way, it will increase the cost of oil and the cost of energy. That was last year.
Dr Nelson, being a politician of great principle, seems to have forgotten what the Liberal Party stood for last year.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Well, Prime Minister, you've been a frequent visitor to the United States over the years. Do you think America's ready to elect a black president?
PM: Once again, fools rush in where angels fear to tread. It's a matter for the American people. What I know about both of these candidates, Senator McCain and Senator Obama, with whom I had discussions when I was last in the United States, is that these are both first-class human beings.
They both have a great instinct for the world. They have a great instinct for our region. And I think whoever wins this, Republican or Democrat, the Australia-United States relationship will be in first -class working order.
PAUL BONGIORNO: It seems at this point in time, the greatest divide between the two candidates is Iraq. Senator Obama is for a fairly speedy withdrawal. Senator McCain is not. It's one thing, I guess, for Australia to withdraw its troops. It's another thing for the United States. If Obama did win and withdrew troops quickly, would that weaken the battle against terrorism worldwide?
PM: Look, first of all, who wins the United States election, we don't know. Secondly, what would then flow in terms of declared policies on Iraq and implementation in the field remains to be seen. What we know from both sides of American politics is that, over time, they wish to bring down the US troop presence.
I think that's clear-cut. What we did prior to the last election is say, ‘If you vote for an Australian Labor Government, by mid-year we'll withdraw our combat force'.
We've honoured that commitment and Mr Howard said the other day had they won the election, they would have sustained that combat commitment - a very clear distinction between us and the Liberal Party at home.
But I've got to say from my discussions with the US Administration, I believe they'll handle these things soberly, sensibly and also, bearing in mind our continuing common engagement, at a large scale in Afghanistan, and that's going to go for a long, long time.
PAUL BONGIORNO: There is one issue here at home that seems to be dividing all the political parties, as it does, and that is the question for aid for abortion advice. Now, we do know there was a ban introduced 10 years ago by the Howard government on this. Foreign Minister Smith is looking at it again. What role will you play or will the caucus play in this?
PM: I'll sure there'll be a caucus discussion. Put all this into context - there was an all-party report last year chaired by the Liberal Party under Dr Mal Washer, as I understand it, which recommended that these guidelines agreed in the past by the Liberal government be changed. That, of course, has triggered further discussion both within the Liberal Party now, and in our own party. The caucus I'm sure will debate this at the appropriate time.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Do you have a strong view?
PM: I've got to be presented with all the facts yet, but I would imagine this will be one of those things we will have a full and frank caucus discussion on.
The exact nature or the quantum of our funding commitment to these programs to assist population control mechanisms in developing countries and how they are administered, I'd really like to get my head around all of the detail of that before getting into the substance of the debate.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Many of the churches are already arcing up. Will this play any role?
PM: Look, it's a democracy. Everyone's got a pretty fair chance to have their say in this country. Good on them. And I say good on anyone who's got a different point of view. I go back to what I said earlier on. We actually don't push a debate to one side. Let's have a debate. Let's have a discussion and as soon as I'm across all the detail I'll be in it as well. It's one of the things which is part of how you govern the country - being open to challenge rather than saying any challenge to us represents some sort of threat to our political authority. Not our approach.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Prime Minister, thank you very much for being with us and safe trip.
PM: Thanks very much, Paul.