Subjects: Bali; Telstra; Albury-Wodonga bypass; gold passes; Victorian election
E&OE...........
PRICE:
Prime Minister, welcome to the programme.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Libby, nice to be with you again.
PRICE:
Now firstly and briefly, I';ve been trying to put myself in the position of those who have lost friends and family in Bali. What advice would you give to those people who are trying to come to terms with news that the Indonesian';s believe they may have arrested one of those responsible for the bombings?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don';t want to comment on operational aspects of the police investigation. I made it clear right at the beginning it would be a good idea if people in my position didn';t become investigation commentators, you can often get things wrong and I would expect that the Australian Federal Police will have something to say about this issue during the course of the day. What I can say that we have enormous federal police resources in Bali, we are getting good cooperation from the Indonesian police, we all hope that the investigation is thorough, effective and ultimately successful but I don';t myself want to comment on these latest reports. It would be much better if that comment were left to the Australian Federal Police. I do know how keenly people who';ve lost loved ones and many of those people I';ve met over the last few weeks, I know how keenly they will await news but it';s also important that enthusiastic but inaccurate information is not given and therefore I would ask that comment on these latest claims is left to the Australian Federal Police and I';m sure when they';re ready and able to say something authoritative they will do so.
PRICE:
So we need to be a little circumspect about what';s been said so far.
PRIME MINISTER:
I';m not saying that, I'm just saying that I think it much better that the people who are actually carrying out the investigation make the comment. I';ve never believed that political leaders, Prime Ministers, Premiers, Police Ministers, should comment on operational matters, it';s rather like a Defence Minister giving details of a battle plan, I think that should be left to the generals and likewise when you';re dealing with a crime it';s much better for the police because they have the information, they can make the assessments, they can be completely factual. Naturally I';ve kept in very close contact with the police, I';m following this with an enormous amount of not only personal commitment and interest but I feel a very special responsibility on behalf of the whole country to follow it very closely and I think the interests of justice and the interests of the relatives of those who';ve lost, who were killed, are best served by allowing the operational aspects of the investigation to be commented upon by the police. I do want to reassure people though, particularly against the background of some comment that';s been in the media over the past few days, I do want to reassure people that we are continuing to get very good cooperation from the Indonesian police, we have a joint team and that was established a couple of days after the atrocity took place and since then that joint team has worked in harmony with the Indonesians, they';ve worked together very effectively and I have not been given any information and no suggestion has been made to me by the Federal Police that that cooperation has in any way broken down or fallen away from the full level that operated right at the beginning.
PRICE:
Okay, if we can now focus on local issues. Dick Estens has delivered his report card on Telstra';s regional services. Now all the indications are that the services are still wanting, particularly Internet and mobile services. This could well slow your plans for full privatisation?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don';t want to Libby pre-empt the release of the report and comment upon by Senator Alston. But I can generally say this, that the report will indicate that what the government and Telstra have done over the past view years in particular has led to a very significant improvement. Now when you will say that things are still wanting, I think probably that generically speaking is a bit of an overstatement of what the report will say. Obviously you never have…
PRICE:
Have you seen it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I';ve seen a summary of it, yes. I haven';t seen the whole report. I do believe that it will indicate that we';ve come a very long way and I have no doubt that it';s a very honest and open report, Dick Estens is a very straight shooting bloke, he would call it as it is.
PRICE:
Sure, but come a very long way, fair enough though to satisfy…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well let';s wait, well it';s a question of, I said that we wouldn';t have a further sale of shares in Telstra until we were satisfied that things were up to scratch in the bush. That';s the expression I used and it';s the expression I continue to use. There will always be some people who can say that there';s something more that ought to be done and can be done, it';s a question of what is a reasonable test of that condition. What the government will be doing is releasing the report and people can have a look at it and then pretty quickly after it';s been released we';ll make an assessment as to whether our criteria have been met or if they haven';t been completely met now what additional things are needed in order for them to be met and then we';ll decide what we';re going to do. But I think the Estens' inquiry has been a very good way of measuring whether or not the government';s condition has been met and I believe that we';ll have a pretty good idea once it comes out of just exactly where to go.
PRICE:
There';s nothing fairly confident that you';re close?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think we have come a long way, I really do, and there has been a very significant improvement in services and that will be apparent. There are some areas where further change and improvement is still needed, that will be apparent as well. But you have to look at the whole picture, you have to apply a reasonable test. In the end, we have to resolve this dilemma, this conflict of dual ownership. Telstra at the moment is neither fish nor fowl and you can't indefinitely have a company of that size competing in a global market, which is half owned by the Government and half in private ownership. It dilutes the capacity of the management to make sensible commercial decisions and it sets up a whole lot of conflict of interest. But we are very committed to the undertaking I gave during the last election campaign as far as country Australia is concerned. And people living in country Australia can rest assured that they're not going to be short changed by the Government on this issue.
PRICE:
Now, if we can move on to an issue even bigger to most of us today - that's the drought. I believe you were briefed on Tuesday. What essentially is holding up the States and the Commonwealth from agreeing on the exceptional circumstances definition?
PRIME MINSITER:
Well, there's not really anything holding up agreement between the States on the operation of existing policy. I mean, people are applying…
PRICE:
People are applying and are getting funding…
PRIME MINSITER:
Yes, that's right. That's correct.
PRICE:
… yes, the States and the Commonwealth still haven't agreed and they've been discussing it for some time.
PRIME MINSITER:
No, there's no disagreement about how the existing formula works. There is still discussion between the Commonwealth and the States on possible changes to that formula, but that doesn't affect the entitlement of people under the existing rules, and those existing rules are operating and that is not affecting in any way the flow of welfare support and exceptional circumstances support, where entitlement under the existing rules can be demonstrated.
PRICE:
So, for now it doesn't really matter that they can't come to an agreement and get it finalised?
PRIME MINSITER:
No, well you give the impression that that failure to reach agreement means people are missing out.
PRICE:
Oh, no. You've made it quite clear that people are getting paid, but…
PRIME MINSITER:
Yeah, that's right.
PRICE:
It is still of some frustration to the States that the actual final definition of exceptional circumstances and who pays what hasn't been agreed. I'm not suggesting no-one's getting paid.
PRIME MINSITER:
No, well there is as often happens in these Federal / State issues there is a disagreement between the Commonwealth and the States regarding the sharing of the cost and there is a debate going on and I don't accept that everything the State is saying is fair and reasonable and they obviously wouldn't accept everything the Commonwealth is saying is fair and reasonable. But the point I'm at pains to make is that that is separate and apart from the entitlement of people to get help if they can demonstrate necessary entitlement.
PRICE:
Ok. A few more areas where there seem to be some disagreement between the States and the Commonwealth. I noticed the Local Environment Minister, Sherryl Garbutt, this morning asking the Federal Government to pay for half of the Wimmera Mallee Pipeline development. Is that anywhere on your radar at the moment?
PRIME MINSITER:
Oh, yes. I've had some representations about that and that is going to be considered. We are at the moment looking at the overall national picture regarding water. We had a briefing from the Murray Darling Basin Commission and other experts, including a representative of the Wentworth group of scientists. We had a briefing from them at a Cabinet meeting in Brisbane on Tuesday. And it's the first instalment of a number of discussions and assessments we're going to make. A lot of people are giving are giving advice and putting forward propositions, some of which are very good, some of which I don't think have quite the same merit as to how we're going to tackle, in the longer term, the water problem in Australia. There's no short-term solution to this. There's no way that you can completely drought-proof Australia - that's not feasible. Now, the question of how things like the pipeline fit into that is obviously one that will be considered, but it's not something that I can give an answer to in the next few weeks.
PRICE:
Right, so we won't know during the election campaign?
PRIME MINSITER:
Well, it's not something that would be appropriate to give an answer on in the next few weeks.
PRICE:
Now, I was going to ask you about the Calder Freeway, but one of our callers wants to. So, how about we go to calls, if that's all right with you, Prime Minister?
PRIME MINSITER:
Yep, thank you.
PRICE:
Thirteen, no, eighteen minutes past nine. Our caller is Elaine from Bendigo. Elaine, you wanted to ask about the Calder Freeway?
CALLER:
Yes, thank you. Good morning, Mr Howard. I just wondered if the State Government have put up the money for the Calder, when is the Federal Government… they've been promising and talking about it for a long time, when is it going to happen?
PRIME MINSITER:
Well, I'll be having a discussion with a number of my colleagues about a few of those issues next week and then I'll have something further to say about it.
PRICE:
During this election campaign?
PRIME MINSITER:
Well, we'll be having a discussion about it next Monday and I'm not going to say anymore at this stage.
PRICE:
Should we be hopeful?
PRIME MINSITER:
Look…
PRICE:
I mean, it's a very serious issue…
PRIME MINSITER:
Yeah, I know.
PRICE:
…between Bendigo and Melbourne.
PRIME MINSITER:
Yes, I know, I know and I understand that. I respect that. But I do interviews like this and talkback like this all over the country and there are numerous claims on available resources of the Commonwealth and I'm not going to make a whole lot of adhoc promises on the run without the overall picture. We do face a rather more difficult budget position than we thought at the time of budget because of the impact of the drought. It is going to have some effect on growth and when you have a reduction in growth, that can have some effect on budget revenue. And we do have additional claims in relation to defence and security which have to take priority over everything else. In those circumstances the responsible, sensible thing, even in the middle of the State election campaign, is to take things onboard and look at them altogether. Now, I know that may not…
PRICE:
I guess Prime Minister, this isn't as if it's been [inaudible] now…
PRIME MINSITER:
No, no. I understand that, but nor indeed have the requests for road support in other parts of the country just cropped up now either.
PRICE:
Well it doesn't sound good?
PRIME MINSITER:
Well, now, I'm trying to be, I'm trying to level with people. I don't believe in sort of just saying yes, to sort of get you through a difficult campaign [tapebreak] and then something comes along after and say - oh, we didn't think of that and we won't be able to deliver. And I'm not going to play that kind of game with the Australian people either in Victoria or indeed anywhere else. I'm trying to be very candid about it.
PRICE:
Twenty minutes past nine. If you'd like to join our conversation with Prime Minister, John Howard, 1800 033 800. Here's one of our regular callers - David from Bambra. Good morning, David.
CALLER:
Yeah, good morning. Good morning, Prime Minister. I want to mention Telstra and your attitude would be is when facilities in the country are up to scratch, then you would consider selling Telstra. Now, I think the proof's in the pudding that when people like I do call on open lines and other people do, the amount of times you get drop outs, you get mobiles not working, and you get black areas, I don't see how you can possibly come to a conclusion even after a report that's going up before you fairly soon that shows you that country Victoria, in particular, has got a decent mobile coverage.
PRICE:
Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think… I don't agree with that, I think you, … there are of course examples of mobile phone dropouts all over the country, when I say country - I mean the city and the country, it's not… your mobile phone can conk out in the middle of the CBD of one of the major cities. Now, that's not to say that there aren't still pockets in rural areas and I've experienced them. I don';t pretend otherwise. Now, I think when you see the Estens…
PRICE:
I think it's a little more significant than just little pockets.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, well I would invite people to have a look at what the Estens report says on that issue and I think it is quite informative and it';s quite objective. It';s not written by anybody with a particular policy or political motive in mind. I';d say to the gentleman that there will always been something extra that can be done and what we have to do is to apply a 'reasonable man' test to this issue. Is it fair and reasonable to say that having regard to the level of services all over the nation, are conditions in the bush up to scratch? And if you can answer yes to that, then I believe the Government';s condition for moving further has been fulfilled. If you can';t, then we';ll have to do some more work and I accept that.
PRICE:
To Simon from Albury. Good morning Simon.
CALLER:
Good morning. Good morning Mr Howard. I would actually just like to congratulate your Government on your decision to externally bypass Albury-Wodonga. I think it is a great decision for interstate travel, people travelling between Melbourne and Sydney. It should shave a lot of time off. Also great for local business. I';m a local business owner. And also great for the future of the community. So well done. As long as it is built, it will be great.
PRIME MINISTER:
All right.
PRICE:
There';s a nice one for you. See we don';t screen our callers, we promise.
PRIME MINISTER:
I wouldn';t suggest for a moment you do.
PRICE:
There we are. What can we say? Moving on then to Ian from Bendigo. Good morning Ian.
CALLER:
Good morning Libby. Thanks for the show. Mr Prime Minister, recently the Government passed legislation or ruled legislation, whatever you call it, that retiring Prime Ministers and MPs still get gold passes, not only for themselves but their partners. But most of these politicians that qualify get a superannuation package of $1 million plus. How come taxpayers still have to fund these perks?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there are a few inaccuracies in what you said. You only get a life gold pass, and it';s not a life gold pass anymore – it';s limited to a certain number of trips a year, but you only…
PRICE:
But it';s still for life.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes for life but for a certain number of trips a year, where it used to be unlimited. And we brought in a limit. Not everybody who retires from Parliament gets $1 million superannuation. There are rules in relation to superannuation. Parliamentary superannuation is good – I agree with that. On the other hand, the contribution is 11% from your after tax salary, higher personal contributions than most people make to superannuation schemes. We have brought in some rules recently that apply the same vesting requirements to future entrants into the parliamentary scheme. So whilst I acknowledge that there are benefits, not everybody gets a million dollars. You only get the life gold pass if you have served in Parliament for a number of years, which is about double the average term of a typical Member of Parliament. Most people who go into Parliament on average serve only eight or nine years, where as you have to almost double that before in many cases before you get the life gold pass. And you';re not entitled to participate [inaudible] superannuation scheme unless you have served in three Parliaments. So whilst if you';ve been there a considerable period of time the benefits are good, there';s quite a lot of mythology about people going in and out in one term and getting large superannuation. That doesn';t happen.
PRICE:
In the last couple of minutes Prime Minister, if we could look a little locally again. I';m interested in your view of the fact that there is no longer a Coalition in Victoria and we';re in the, perhaps one could say uncomfortable situation where we';re having three-cornered contests in some very important regional seats. Already they';re getting quite ugly.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I';m not going to talk about individual contests at a State level. We generally throughout the nation at a Federal level don';t have three-cornered contests that involve sitting Members. We';ve always had three-cornered contests where the seat is held by the Labor Party. The view being taken, and there is nothing odd about this, that where the seat is held by Labor the two anti Labor parties maximise their chances of winning by…
PRICE:
Yes but we';ve got [inaudible]
PRIME MINISTER:
I understand that and well the culture and history of relations between the Liberal Party and the National Party in Victoria at a State level is different from the culture and history of relations between those same parties at a Federal level in Victoria, and very different from the culture and history of relations between those two parties at a State and Federal level in New South Wales. It';s just one of the differences that exist. I think the number has been minimised. I have no doubt that, if as I hope as anti0-Labor majority in the lower house emerges from the election on the 30th of November, I have no doubts that the Liberal Party and the National Party will be able to work together very effectively as they have in the past to give very good Government to Victoria.
PRICE:
Well speaking of cultures, I would imagine that there has been a cultural shift in relation to between the Federal Liberals and the State Liberals. Of course your relationship with Jeff Kennett was always a little uncomfortable. I would suspect that you would get on pretty well with Robert Doyle.
PRIME MINISTER:
I have a very high regard for Robert Doyle. I think he has done very well in the time that he has been leader. I liked his predecessor Denis Napthine but the Party decided to make a change. I think Robert speaks clearly. You know where he stands. He only talks when he has got something to say. I think the public would like that. They probably get tired of people talking a lot and saying nothing. Robert is not one of those politicians and that';s one of the things that I find attractive about him. I think he';d make a very committed Premier.
PRICE:
And we';re going to see you quite a bit in Victoria during the election campaign?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh well I';ll be here on one or two occasions but in the end, I have to make it clear, the election will be decided on State issues. I have always taken the view that people discriminate very carefully and very deliberately between Federal and State issues. I';m very happy to help Robert. I know that I';m very welcome in the campaign and in Victoria but in the end it will be a judgment about Victorian issues, about who is best able to govern the State. I think the biggest single criticism that can be made of the current Government is that it is too beholden to the union movement. Of all the Labor Governments around Australia none is more beholden to the union movement than the Government of Victoria and I think in the long term that will have a negative effect on investment in Victoria.
PRICE:
Now you are of course a very busy man so we';ll have to leave it there. Will you be travelling to regional Victoria at all do you think Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
I';m not sure. I can';t promise I will be between now and the 30th of November. I do travel to regional Victoria a great deal and I know it very well. I know just about all of the places that the callers have come from I';ve certainly been to.
PRICE:
We';d love to see you again.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you';ll see me again, I can promise you that. You';ll see me again and again.
PRICE:
Not just on the telly though.
PRIME MINISTER:
No you';ll see me again and again in person in regional Victoria but whether that happens between now and the 30th of November I';d better not promise.
PRICE:
Okay well there are lots of issues we would have loved to have talked about this morning but of course we';ll have to leave it there. Prime Minister thank you very much for your time this morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you Libby.
[ends]