Subjects: Meeting with President Megawati Soekarnoputri, MOU on terrorism
E&OE...........
PRIME MINISTER:
Well ladies and gentlemen thank you for coming. So far there have been some very positive outcomes of this official visit of mine, the fifth as Prime Minister of Australia to Indonesia. I valued the lengthy discussions I had yesterday with President Megawati and senior members of her Government, the opportunity to more formally address some remarks of the relationship at the banquet last night, and this morning over breakfast with the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Coordinating Minister for Political Affairs I was able to go into more detail about some of the issues that had been canvassed yesterday.
I can confirm that a memorandum of understanding between Australia and Indonesia will be signed this afternoon by the Indonesian Foreign Minister on behalf of the Republic of Indonesia and the Australian Ambassador to the Republic Mr Ric Smith on behalf of Australia. I will attend as is the custom the signing ceremony as will the Coordinating Minister on behalf of Indonesia. This memorandum of understanding relates to joint efforts by the two countries to deal with international terrorism and the text of course of the memorandum of understanding will be made available after it';s signed. It';s an important expression of cooperation between the two countries about an issue that is important to the whole world and especially important to our region. It will open up opportunities of cooperation and information sharing between various agencies in Australia and Indonesia and I welcome that development very much.
Our discussions necessarily focussed on a number of upcoming meetings including the tripartite gathering meeting between Australia, East Timor and Indonesia in Bali and also the people smuggling regional meeting which is taking place in Bali between the 26th and the 28th of February. On the issue of people smuggling I recognise as I';ve said on earlier occasions that a comprehensive solution must involve countries other than Australia and Indonesia, or countries as well as Australia and Indonesia, and it';s not something as some people erroneously suggest that can be solved by some kind of bilateral arrangement between Australia and Indonesia because the reality is that the great bulk of the illegal immigrants coming to Australia do not originate in Indonesia. They are not nationals of Indonesia. They are nationals of other countries. But it is nonetheless the case that both Australia and Indonesia have a contribution to make to the solution of the problem and have responsibilities in relation to the laws of their own countries.
I can additionally announce that two important initiatives which will strengthen further the relationship between our two countries. One of them is the establishment of an Australian-Indonesian dialogue, similar to the Australian-United States dialogue which has proved so very successful over the years. And also the establishment of a forum for the exchange of ideas between Muslim leaders in Indonesia and Muslim leaders in Australia. It';s a recognition of the importance of a better understanding, of the role and the place of Islam in the world, and not least in Indonesia, and also a recognition that Australians of Islamic faith constitute a very important and valued part of Australian society. I hope to have the opportunity of meeting some Islamic leaders in Indonesia later today before the signing ceremony and before my departure to Yogyakarta later this afternoon. Are there any questions.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard, do you ever tire of coming up here with offers of assistance, aid and goodwill and being humiliated?
PRIME MINISTER:
Do you ever tire of excessively negative interpretations?
JOURNALIST:
Well I would like an answer to the question though.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that is my answer.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard, did you make any progress at all on the bilateral aspect of people smuggling, and secondly what form will the Muslim forum take?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the bilateral aspects of people smuggling involve most importantly the two of us cooperating to bring about a regional agreement. All of the relevant things are going to be on the agenda at the regional meeting and the two us, we';re the joint chairmen of that, and I just would make the observation that whilst I';m not making any bold predictions about the future or purporting to give any guarantees, the flow of people is certainly a lot less now than it was two or three months ago.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] can Indonesia contribute to this meeting?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think that';s something to be discussed at the summit. I think it';s more appropriate that that question be directed towards the Indonesian Government. I';m not going to start making suggestions of mine. We did have a discussion about certain aspects but importantly it has to be understood that all of the people who come to Australia or sought to come to Australia in recent months have come originally from countries other than Indonesia and it';s really Indonesia';s position as a transit nation. I am also conscious of the difficult experience Indonesia had following a regional agreement about Vietnamese refugees some years ago which resulted in people being here for a period of some 15 years, much longer than had originally been contemplated.
JOURNALIST:
Why do you believe the flow';s actually decreased from last year?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think there are combination of reasons. I think one of the reasons is that Australia is no longer seen as such an easy country to come to and that has been the basis of the deterrent policies that we have taken. And I';ve made that plain all along and I think it has been a material factor, a very material factor. I';m not saying it';s the only factor but I think it has been a very material factor.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard, what do you make of the interpretation of some of the Indonesian press, for example the Jakarta Post, today';s headline basically that there';s a cloud of disaffection hanging over the visit.
PRIME MINISTER:
Were you inviting me to give media commentary now instead of political commentary. Look you';ve all read the papers and you know what';s in them. I think the Indonesian language newspapers I';m told give a somewhat different slant. But look the last thing I';m interested in doing is giving commentary on the media coverage of my visit. The important thing is that we have secured some good outcomes but it';s a relationship that always needs careful attention. You can never take it for granted. It has to be based on mutual respect. We';ve got to understand our points of agreement and similarity as well as our potential points of disagreement. But I thought yesterday and last night and this morning were all conducted in a particularly positive tone and I';m not particularly phased by what is in the Jakarta Post any more than I get phased by what is in newspapers back home.
JOURNALIST:
The practical effect of the joint approach, can you just outline what you understand the practical effects of the approach on terrorism will be and will it involve closer cooperation between the defence forces of Australia and Indonesia?
PRIME MINISTER:
There have been some suggestions about the SAS and Kapassus? I think that is a wrong interpretation.
JOURNALIST:
…..Bali at the end of the month between Indonesia, Australia and East Timor. What is your main agenda? Have you also discussed about [inaudible] oil field with the Indonesians, East Timor because right now East Timor claim that [inaudible]?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think the purpose of this meeting is to establish a framework for future relations between what after the 20th of May will be three independent countries – that';s Indonesia, Australia and East Timor. I';m not going to try and tie down the agenda or specify, I';m not. But I think everything that';s important to the relationship will be on the table.
JOURNALIST:
I was wondering if you could just elaborate on the intelligence agreement. Indonesia for instance would regard the rebel groups in Aceh and Papua, Irian Jaya, as being terrorists. Will Australia exchange information on those groups….?
PRIME MINISTER:
No look I want to make it very clear that this agreement is not going to be any kind of device whereby Australia gets involved in the domestic affairs of Indonesia. It';s about combating international terrorism and that will be very plain when you see the memorandum of understanding.
JOURNALIST:
But for instance will Australia be sending…..we';ve got very close intelligence….
PRIME MINISTER:
No we';re talking about international terrorism. We';re not talking about involvement in the domestic affairs of Indonesia.
JOURNALIST:
Did you ask President Megawati to visit Australia and did she give any indication that she might be willing to visit Australia perhaps some time…..?
PRIME MINISTER:
I have renewed the invitation and she';d be very welcome. At this stage there';s been no response as to a time. I hope a visit does come off but I did renew the invitation.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard, [inaudible] clarify exactly what the memorandum of understanding….
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you';ll see it this afternoon.
JOURNALIST:
But that';s this afternoon unfortunately….
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look you';ll see it. I';m sorry about that but I don';t set the time zones of the world and you';ll see it. But I';m simply not going to, in the absence of you having seen it, I';m not going to play the game of trying to tell you precisely in advance what is in it because then I might get accused of misleading you.
JOURNALIST:
Indonesia has very strong links, members of the party have very strong links with international terrorist groups here. Where do you join the line on disbanding international terrorism when there are indications that Indonesians are in fact involved in that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, you are asking me a series of hypothetical questions and I';m not going to answer them.
JOURNALIST:
Well, no there are indications – very strong indications - that there [inaudible] How do you draw the line?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look I';m sorry, you are just, if you want to make a comment, go ahead and make it, but the agreement is about co-operation between the two countries to combat international terrorism.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard, have you had any communications with the US authorities on this memorandum …?
PRIME MINISTER:
They would be aware of it, yes.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard, today Chairman Amien Rais is quoted in one of the Jakarta papers as saying there are lessons for you from the unwillingness of the parliamentary leadership and of the parliament of Indonesia… what are those lessons?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you should ask him.
JOURNALIST:
Did you have a chat last night Mr Howard?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, he said “welcome back”! He did. He said “welcome back, good to see you again”.
JOURNALIST:
Do you think there are any lessons?
PRIME MINISTER:
Glenn, you have been around this game long enough to know there are statements made for all sorts of reasons and there is always – who was it – Tip O';Neil made a famous comment.
JOURNALIST:
What will be the contribution of Australia regarding the cooperation against terrorism?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, it will be of all agencies that are relevant, formal agencies that are relevant. I think you better have a look at the MOU. It';s not a long document but it will give you a clue and will make it very clear that we are not talking about an acceleration of military links. We are not talking about Australia getting involved in domestic matters going to the unity of Indonesia. We are talking about co-operation between Australia and Indonesia in fighting international terrorism.
JOURNALIST:
Meaning to say that there will be no….[inaudible}
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that is a different situation. You were talking about the US sending troops. We are not talking about that?
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard could you clarify perhaps, you';ve made an announcement yesterday about the five boats to be …. ?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, they are small police craft.
JOURNALIST:
Can you clarify how they would be used (inaudible) PRIME MINISTER:
Well, they';ll be used by the Indonesian authorities and I think they would be used by the Indonesian law enforcement authorities for, I mean I would imagine for purpose in and around the waters of Indonesia. They certainly don';t have any capacity to travel in international waters.
JOURNALIST:
What would be the effect of stopping (inaudible) for Australia?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, they are being made available to the Indonesian authorities. It';s not my role, or it would not be appropriate for me to suggest how they should be used.
JOURNALIST:
Muslim groups (inaudible) what';s the purpose of that? What was missing in the relationship that brought this on?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think that there';s value given the role of Islam in Indonesia and also the importance of what has occurred in the world over the last few months, not being wrongly interpreted by anybody in a way that is negative to the role of Islam in the world, I think links of that kind are valuable. It';s not a question of concluding that there was something missing. It';s just a question of seeing that this is another way in which we can have links. I mean I think probably, I use the word forum that might have been an excessively formal way of describing it, but the idea is to exchange Muslim groups in the two countries to get together.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard can I ask you a question, a domestic political question?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it depends what it is. If I';m well informed I can answer it, if I';m not well informed or it';s already been dealt with by one of my erudite colleagues back in Australia…
JOURNALIST:
One of your colleagues has left it hanging a bit. Health Minister….
PRIME MINISTER:
My colleagues never leave things hanging.
JOURNALIST:
Your Health Minister has hinted that the 30 per cent private health rebate may only apply to hospital cover not extras like dental or optical. Is that …
PRIME MINISTER:
I can';t believe she would have hinted about that.
JOURNALIST:
No that';s something….
PRIME MINISTER:
I can';t believe she would have left that hanging. Look there';s been no change to the amplitude of the cover.
JOURNALIST:
What about the….
PRIME MINISTER:
Certainly not in relation to things like that, I mean for heaven';s sake.
JOURNALIST:
What about a rise in terms of the cover? Obviously the health fund (inaudible).
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we';re going to look at that. I mean you know my views on the 13 per cent.
JOURNALIST:
What about a small percentage rise?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh look, I';m not going to start debating it beyond that. We';ll deal with that in the next couple of weeks. It';ll come to Cabinet and it will be talked about and I can assure you we won';t be agreeing to a 13 per cent rise.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard how (inaudible) Australia intervene with the IMF definitely (inaudible)
PRIME MINISTER:
It was a statement of our willingness to adopt a similar attitude in the future to what we adopted in 1997. I don';t have any specific intervention in relation to any specific IMF proposal in mind, but what I wanted to convey last night to the Indonesian government was that just as in 1997 we thought the IMF was going a bit far and was being a bit insensitive we would be willing to express the same view in the future if we thought the same things were happening.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard, what';s the government got to hide at Woomera?
PRIME MINISTER:
What';s the government got to hide at Woomera? The government has nothing to hide at Woomera, but the question of whether this or that UN agency, given that there are a number of UN agencies that have responsibilities and interest in this area, the question is whether every single request is complied with is something that we will have a look at. I mean there has to be, there has to be a point at which we don';t just automatically accede to every request when we are not satisfied that there is a need for yet another one. Can I just finish?
JOURNALIST:
(inaudible)
PRIME MINISTER:
I';m just wondering if you could let me finish please? The government does not intend to allow a situation to develop where anybody can, on demand, simply say I want to go and have a look at Woomera. The UNHCR has an involvement in relation to refugees. Mr Downer had some comments about the source of the interest of Mary Robinson in relation to Woomera and we';ll look at it next week, but I';m not signaling in advance that we';re going to agree to Mrs Robinson';s request.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard, you (inaudible)
PRIME MINISTER:
I beg your pardon.
JOURNALIST:
If the meeting at the Parliament had gone ahead this morning…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it';s not.
JOURNALIST:
I know it';s not but if you had, what message would you…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, it';s pointless. It hasn';t happened. I mean that is a pointless question and I';m not…
JOURNALIST:
(inaudible) misunderstanding or anger or (inaudible) what would you, what message (inaudible)?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look I';m not - if you, if people don';t know why those statements were made they should ask the people who made the statements. I just want to repeat that the substance of the statements were wholly inaccurate. But I';ve made that very plain to the President and I made it very plain to the two Ministers over breakfast this morning. Now, from my point of view that really is the beginning and the end of it. I think it';s more related to other considerations. I mean every country operates in a political environment, I understand that, and I refer you to the response I gave to Glenn Milne.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard you were a member of the opposition when it imposed, or helped force, time limits on Ministers answering questions in the Senate, your opposite number, Simon Crean, is proposing introducing time limits on ministers and in the House of Representatives.
PRIME MINISTER:
Is he?
JOURNALIST:
He is. Any opinion on that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think the first thing I';d do is look at the length of some of his answers when he was a minister but look I haven';t heard of that before and I think I';ll take it on notice and I';ll have a talk to my colleagues. You say I was a member of the opposition – that';s a pretty tenuous lead into the question! Yes, well you all know what my view - just forget the introduction and just ask me.
JOURNALIST:
(Inaudible).
PRIME MINISTER:
Look I';m not going…it';s the first I';ve heard of it.
JOURNALIST:
What about for some Ministers.
PRIME MINISTER:
First I';ve heard of it and I';ll have a look at it. What? What did you say?
JOURNALIST:
Put it on certain ministers…
PRIME MINISTER:
That would, that would breach the anti-discrimination laws of the Commonwealth, yes!
JOURNALIST:
(inaudible) actually meet with Amien Rais….
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I met with Amien Rais last night. My wife had a very pleasant discussion with him.
JOURNALIST:
(inaudible) more formally.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well last night was pretty formal. Look, look can I say that it';s a very superficial approach to international diplomacy. There';s no one meeting that sort of solves a relationship. I think it';s been a positive meeting. The relationship between Australia and Indonesia has to be realistic. There are going to be a lot of things that we can agree on, there';s going to be a lot of things that we disagree on. We are different societies, but we also have geography and a future and a shared set of regional responsibilities in common and I admire the fact that Indonesia is going through this enormous transformation from a different style of government to a more open democratic style of government and we should in a country like Australia we should be sympathetic towards that and supportive towards it. But I don';t regard any one visit as sort of a king-hit solution to the difficulties between two nations. I think it';s been positive. I think the to-ing and fro-ing about who talks to me and who doesn';t has got something to do with the view that most politics are local.
JOURNALIST:
(inaudible).
PRIME MINISTER:
I will handled them in the future as I';ve handled them in the past.
JOURNALIST:
Sorry, with the surrounding controversy about (inaudible).
PRIME MINISTER:
Surrounding controversy about what?
JOURNALIST:
Saying that they all know that they didn';t want to meet you today.
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, look I really do believe with great respect you';re putting too much importance into that and I think most people recognise that and I think, oh come on, let';s move on to something else. I think the whole thing has been just, given a nice newspaper story but really it';s in the great sweep of the relationship between the two countries. I don';t think it means anything.
JOURNALIST:
(inaudible) defence ties to Australia and Indonesia would that (inaudible) was that discussed in the talks this morning?
PRIME MINISTER:
It was alluded to. I would see it sort of occurring gradually. I don';t think you';re going to see a dramatic change in that, but it';s going to happen on a gradual basis.
JOURNALIST:
Does that involve an increase frequency of senior level visits between the two (inaudible)?
PRIME MINISTER:
I wouldn';t like to prescribe what it would involve, Tim. I just would describe the character of it. I wouldn';t like to describe what it would involve.
JOURNALIST:
How can you tell Mr Howard what (inaudible) apply to very strong assurances about Australia and (inaudible). What did she explain her concerns here or ..?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don';t think the President doubted it.
JOURNALIST:
Did she say anything…
PRIME MINISTER:
My sense of the President';s response, as indeed the response of Ministers, was that they never really believed that we were involved in trying to stir up dissention.
JOURNALIST:
How do you explain (inaudible)
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I just made it plain that that was untrue. It wasn';t a question of explaining, I didn';t have anything to explain. It';s not correct and it should manifestly be seen as not correct because there is nothing that anybody can point to of any substance that would support such a suggestion, it';s just wrong.
JOURNALIST:
(inaudible).
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, it';s not my role to get involved in domestic affairs in Indonesia. I mean people have sought to draw an analogy between West Papua and East Timor. I mean the history is entirely different and everybody knows that, as East Timor was not historically administered as part of the rest of the nation. It was an entirely a different set of circumstances and we have made it plain all along. I mean we obviously, we make the, you know, the general exhortation of any country that if there was an internal difference then you try and resolve that but the question of how that is done is a matter for Indonesia and we respect Indonesia';s territorial integrity and we don';t seek to undermine it. Now, there';s really nothing more I can say I that, I';m just repeating the same thing in different words and…
JOURNALIST:
(inaudible)…
PRIME MINISTER:
No I don';t think it';s the sort of thing that you would be publicly more specific on if you want to be effective.
Anything else?
(ends)