Subjects: Zimbabwe, Senator Heffernan; Tampa
E&OE...........
PEACOCK:
Prime Minister, the outcome that you wanted over Zimbabwe. Were you surprised, pleased? What';s your reaction?
PRIME MINISTER:
Very pleased. It';s a good reaction. Zimbabwe has been suspended as it should have been given the report of the Commonwealth Observer Group and we have therefore as the Commonwealth maintained consistency of treatment compared with other countries such as Fiji and Pakistan. But it';s not only that. It';s also a concentrated engagement by the Commonwealth, particularly the group of three that I chair and most particularly the Presidents of Nigeria and South Africa and the committee of the three of us are committed to the implementation of the electoral reform that has been recommended by the Commonwealth Observer Group and importantly we have adopted the finding of that group that the right conditions for a free and fair expression of will within Zimbabwe did not exisist.
PEACOCK:
That group said that the election was deeply flawed. Now that means Robert Mugabe is not a validly elected president.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the report was written in plain English and it';s been adopted.
PEACOCK:
Does that mean that….
PRIME MINISTER:
Any country for the sake of its people needs to be governed. What needs to happen in Zimbabwe is there does need to be a reconciliation between the two political sides, there does need to be electoral reform. I would certainly like to see another electoin held, Australia would like to see another electdion held in democratic circumstances as soon as possible. That of course will depend upon the will and the behaviour and the attitude of the different political forces within Zimbabwe. But the really important thing that';s come out of this afternoon';s meeting is that a group comprising the President of South Africa, the President of Nigeria and the Prime Minister of Australia have agreed on behalf of all the other Commonwealth countries to apply consistency of treatment towards Zimbabwe and to adopt the findings of the Commonwealth Observer group and to embrace the recommendations of that group for electoral reform.
PEACOCK:
How difficult a decision was it? I mean does this mean that the much reported racial divide in the Commonwealth doesn';t exist?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that hasn';t existed for some time and those people who sought to see this as a meeting between white Australia and black South Africa and Nigeria were wrong. There was a common Commonwealth spirit. But you';ve got to remember that I was dealing with two men whose commitment to democratic principles has been tested by fire in a way that many people in the Australian experience wouldn';t understand. They have a very good understanding of democracy.
PEACOCK:
But by the same token the South African Parliamentary Committee said it was a good election.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we were asked by the Coolum meeting to look at the Commonwealth Observer Group report and we did that and as I predicted at the time of the Coolum meeting that giving the three of us the responsibility meant that the glare of publicity and examination would be very starkly on us, and that is what happened and I think the committee has done the right thing by the Commonwealth and produced a very balanced and an entirely appropriate outcome.
PEACOCK:
But what will it actually mean for Zimbabwe? I mean why will Robert Mugabe care?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it means that an international body comprising of 55 countries has passed a judgement, has made an assessment and has found the conditoins of democracy and proper electoral process as laid out in the Harare Declaration some years ago is wanting in Zimbabwe and I think that will have an effect, yes.
PEACOCK:
What will Zimbabwe have to do to rejoin and what does this mean in terms of actual sanctions because you and others have pointed out the people of Zimbabwe are starving?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well as far as economic and other sanctions are concerned I would not expect Australia to be imposing those and clearly it is a decision for other countries as to what they do. As far as the future of Zimbabwe is concerned I think the combined effect of what';s been announced today will be to set up processes and pressures that can possibly deliver change and reform. I mean it';s not easy. I mean in the end we';re not in the business of invading countries and taking over their administration. We';re in the business of trying to persuade and influence and counsel and bring about change in that way. The Commonwealth';s had a pretty good record despite all the derisory comments that have been made, over the last ten years in restoring democracy and the rule of law and I believe that this afternoon';s outcome gives us a far better basis than would say a breakdown and the building up of unreal expectations about quick change would have given us.
PEACOCK:
Just quickly on domestic matters. You say that Senator Heffernan has paid the price for what he did do to Justice Kirby. What sort of price did Justice Kirby pay for this and what responsibility do you accept for what happened?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the charge against Mr Justice Kirby was as everybody knows made by Senator Heffernan, not by me. I didn';t approve it, I didn';t support it.
PEACOCK:
You had the chance to rebut it though. I mean it took six days of the Judge swinging in the breeze before Laurie Brereton [inaudible] the evidence.
PRIME MINISTER:
I had to deal with the situation from day to day as known to me and I handled it entirely appropriately at every time and the conclusoin is that Senator Heffernan has tendered an unqualified apology and that has been graciously accepted.
PEACOCK:
And is that enough?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think in the circumstances if somebody makes a claim like this, a very serious claim, gets it wrong, that person has to unreservedly apologise and he';s done that and he';s certainly paid a penalty and it';s certainly done significant damage…..
PEACOCK:
But you still call him a mate?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes because in personal relations you don';t dump people because they make mistakes. You';re not a good friend if you walk away from somebody just because they';ve made a mistake. He';s made a big mistake but it doesn';t alter the fact that I still regard him as a friend. I';m not a person that sheds friends on the basis of them making mistakes. We';d all be pretty lonely if that was the philosophy we brought to our friendships.
PEACOCK:
It';s still done tremendous damage don';t you think to Justice Kirby and his standing? What efforts were made by yourself or your office to asertain the veracity of Senator Heffernan';s claims?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Senator Heffernan, having made the claims had presented us in that sense with a fait accompli. I then set about a process in the subsequent days which in all the circumstances was completely appropriate and….
PEACOCK:
Leaving it to the police?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well because you';re talking here about allegations. I';m not a detective. I don';t run an investigation service.
PEACOCK:
But you yourself said that it wasn';t necessarily a police matter, the Judges….
PRIME MINISTER:
No. You';re taken certain remarks of mine out of context.
PEACOCK:
But is it not true that Judges can breach their positoin and their guidelines without necessarily breaching criminal laws.
PRIME MINISTER:
I think we';ve been over all of that Matt, it';s getting a bit boring.
PEACOCK:
Okay one final question, in relation to the Tampa. The Captain, the crew, the owner of the Tampa today got awarded the United Nations'; High Commissioner for Refugees prize. Do you think they deserve such a tribute?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I';m not going to make any comment on that. I think it';s entirely consistent for people to recognise their humanitarian gesture in rescuing people on that vessel and they did do the right thing in relation to that. Our quarrel with the Tampa was not that they rescued the asylum seekers. Our quarrel was that there should have been a different pattern of conduct after that. So I think the two things are quite consistent. Our position is correct and their humanitarian gesture should be appropriately recognised and I congratulate them.
[Ends]