Subjects: asylum seekers; Telstra; Gold Card; superannuation
E&OE...........
MURRAY:
Good morning Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning. Very nice to be here.
MURRAY:
Nice to talk to you again. I want to talk to you first up about these two boys who turned up at the British Consulate yesterday. Should these boys be going back into incarceration? Their lawyer, Eric Verdalis, calls it inhumane and barbaric and I think at times even your Government has conceded it would be better to have kids out of detention centres.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it would be better if we had no illegal arrivals and then you wouldn';t have to detain anybody. We don';t like detaining anybody, I want to make that clear. But if you are to run an effective border protection policy you have to have mandatory detention as part of that policy and the judgement made earlier this year by the South Australian department of child services, or whatever they call it there, was that it would be better for these children to be with their mother and their mother of course is in detention. And they';re not refugees. That';s been established. They';re not refugees and there are some doubts about the temporary protection visa that their father obtained.
MURRAY:
That';s the confusing factor for many people isn';t it when they see the father got a visa and…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look I don';t want to prejudice the process. Let me simply say there are doubts and clearly the children, the other members of the family and the mother are not refugees. Their case has been very exhaustively examined. Clearly they will take whatever other legal proceedings might be available to them because we do have an open accommodating legal system in this country. It';s one of the pillars on which Australian society is erected. But this is a difficult situation. I don';t like anybody being in mandatory detention but I would like a lot less a situation where people felt they could come willy-nilly to Australia and simply by physically getting into the country they obtain to themselves the effective right to remain here indefinitely. Now we can';t have that and we won';t have that and countries around the world recognise our right to enforce the policy, we do difficult though it is. I';ve just been in Europe recently and I can assure your listeners Paul that people over there are not attacking us, if anything they are saying to us quietly we understand what you are doing, we are tightening our border protection laws and we are interested in your experience.
MURRAY:
The issue of the children, I mean they';re obviously not in control of their destiny, they do what their parents tell them…
PRIME MINISTER:
And perhaps others.
MURRAY:
Yes.
PRIME MINISTER:
And perhaps others.
MURRAY:
Yeah. And it';s just to whether or not, you can see the effect that the incarceration has had on these kids, whether you have sympathy for them or not it';s there to see and surely you as a parent must feel concerned about seeing children growing up at those formative years in these sort of circumstances.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don';t as I say I don';t like it. As a human being as well as Prime Minister I don';t like it. However it';s the result of an attempt to come to this country illegally. There has been a judgement made that they're not refugees. I hope that they don';t remain there indefinitely. I hope arrangements can be made for them to return to the country from which it is believed they originally came which is Pakistan.
MURRAY:
What diplomatic discussions, or discussions at a political level took place between the British and Australian Government';s over their appeal to Great Britain?
PRIME MINISTER:
There were no discussions I';m told at a ministerial level. Neither Mr Ruddock nor Mr Downer spoke to the British. I certainly didn';t. There could well have been some contact at an officials level as there should be have been. I';d be surprised if there hadn';t been some contact. I';m not specifically aware of it but I';d be very surprised if there hadn';t been some contact at a British Foreign Office, High Commission, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade level. That would- to be expected. But it was a fairly simple straightforward decision that the British made. We are both parties to the Geneva convention on the treatment of refugees. The British were clearly satisfied, as is the case, that Australia runs a transparent effective and just refugee asylum seeker system despite what our critics say. I mean you can go through all sorts of processes in this country to have your case heard, We';re a lot more open and less arbitrary than other countries and it';s one of the reasons why many people in this country get angry when the critics of the Government';s policy talk about how harsh and inhumane we are. I was constantly impressed by the number of people who expressed surprise to me when I was in Europe about how large our migration programme was for a country of our size. I mean we continue to take a lot of legal migrants, we continue to have a 12,000 person a year refugee programme. So people can';t point the finger at us and say we';re insensitive to letting new people into this country. But we insist on the right to require people to come here legally and that is what we';re upholding. We';re upholding the right of this country to decide who comes and decide that they come in legal circumstances.
MURRAY:
Are these kids being used as pawns in a propaganda war?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don';t want to say anything provocative that might have some influence on any other proceedings that are taken.
MURRAY:
‘Cause you must be worried about the criminality involved by people of the so-called refugee network.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well people should not, anybody who is assisting people, anybody assisting somebody to break the law in this country are themselves breaking the law. I';m not making particular allegations about how these young boys got to Melbourne. I don';t myself know all of the circumstances, I therefore don';t have the right to make allegations. I';m pleased that they are in physical good health. They are, I spoke to the Minister this morning and inquired about their physical wellbeing. Clearly it';s been a difficult experience for them whatever the circumstances. I understand that. It';s overall a very difficult situation but we are in the process of maintaining the integrity of a border protection system and people are trying to break it, there are people in Australia who are political activists as well as lawyers and they';re trying to break it. And now we';re not going to have it broken. We';ll defend it in a humane compassionate fashion but people should understand that we do not intend to alter our policy.
MURRAY:
This was an attempt obviously to embarrass you politically in the hope that the British Government would take a different view to you. There';s a suggestion this morning that had they not gone to the consulate, if they';d actually been presented at the embassy there may have been a different approach by the British Government and in some ways they were caught on a technicality here that they couldn';t be granted an asylum through the consulate. Is there true that there';s a technicality involved?
PRIME MINISTER:
I haven';t been told that, I';d be very surprised if that was the case. Very surprised, very surprised. I can';t imagine that the British Government would have taken a different decision if they';d been physically presented at the High Commission in Canberra, I find that extraordinary.
MURRAY:
Okay Prime Minister. Let's just move onto the sale of Telstra. Why can't we know what your timetable is on this?
PRIME MINISTER:
Because I haven't got a clear timetable. I haven't got a precise timetable. I know what I what to do but I can't tell anybody precisely how long that's going to take. I do intend, the Government intends rather, to have a further investigation this year, exactly when I haven't decided, to determine whether services in the bush to use my phrase are up to scratch. I've talked to my senior colleagues about that and I expect that we'll be making some announcement regarding it fairly soon. I don't know quite how long that process that will take. And if as a result of that process we are informed that services in the bush are up to scratch then we'll give consideration to a timetable for the sale of further shares. But all of those things are things that are either going to involve a period of time so I can't give you an exact timetable because I don't have one. I can tell you, and I';m very happy to tell the Australian public because they have a perfect right to know, what my intentions are. We remain committed to the full privatisation of Telstra subject to being satisfied that conditions and facilities in the bush are up to scratch. Any privatisation in full of Telstra will be accompanied by legislation guaranteeing performance delivery and guaranteeing the maintenance of essential services and proper standards and levels of telecommunications in country Australia that will put them on par with those, as far as practicable, in the city. So that's the intention. That was the policy on which we were elected. I mean we have never disguised our policy on this. We've always been quite open and the public voted for us in the knowledge that that was our policy and we're going to stick to the policy. But I';m not going to hasten indecently on it. There's no point in doing that and I want country people to know that we'll need to be completely satisfied that their services are up to scratch, adequate before we go any further.
MURRAY:
Can I just ask you to listen to a very small part of an interview that I did this week with the leader of the National Party in WA - Max Trenorden -who remains imploacably opposed to the sale. This is what he had to say:
MURRAY: In terms of the Besley Report are all the problems fixed in WA and the bush?
TRENORDEN: No far from it Paul. In fact there's very considerable problems out here. Telstra have been patching up some of their problems, running lines across the ground, doing repairs that they admit themselves are not for the long term. Also there's massive areas where the coverage is not available on mobile phones which is a critical point now particularly as the state government's removing health services throughout rural WA. The mobile phone's becoming more and more important to communities. And there's not enough talk and not enough recognition Paul of the need particularly into the future of access to the Internet.
MURRAY: So Max even if just the provision of services in the bush were the only issue to be considered here how far off are they from getting your approval on that?
TRENORDEN: A considerable way off. The reality is Paul do we talk politics or just mess around? A very stark hard truth is Telstra in ten years of hard work could not meet the requirements.
MURRAY: Ten years?
TRENORDERN: Ten years.
MURRAY:
That's how far off Max Trenordern sees it, at least ten years away.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that's not the view of a lot of his colleagues in the federal National Party.
MURRAY:
But we're talking in Western Australia.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes but we're also talking about the national Parliament which will make the decision on this. It won't be made by state parliaments. It'll be made by the federal Parliament and I understand the importance of telecommunications to people in country Australia. I also know that this misty eyed idea that everything was marvellous years ago when the telephones were owned by the old PMG, I mean really it's light years away from that now and the idea that telecommunications have some how or other declined as there's been increasing public ownership through shareholding in Telstra is completely the opposite of what has occurred. The facilities now are infinitely better than they were. Some people will argue they'll never be adequate but I guess it could be said that that will be the case if Telstra remains 50% owned by the government. I mean there'll always be some services that people say are not adequate.
MURRAY:
Let's get to the lines now Prime Minister. People are banking up to talk to you this morning. Paul's first up. Good morning Paul, the Prime Minister's listening.
CALLER:
Yeah good morning. I'd like to thank you Mr Prime Minister for making yourself available for talkback radio. I'd like to first of all thank you that you're taking a hard stand on these illegal refugees and I voted for you because I believe that Labor is not worthy to run this country. However because I voted for you does not give you a mandate to sell the rest of Telstra. My first question is this - how much profit did Telstra make last financial year?
MURRAY:
Telstra made a very good profit and that is a very good thing. I can't remember the exact….
CALLER:
O.K [inaudible] being 51% government owned, where is the loss of revenue going to come from? You cannot increase taxes since we are the highest taxpaying Australians in history. Where's it going to come from?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you can't automatically divide that profit into two and assume that all of that has come to the government because they use some of the profit for reinvestment and one of the reasons they have to use a lot of profit for reinvestment is that because the company is half government owned they can't issue shares to raise capital because if they issue shares to raise capital the government has got to buy half the shares because….and we're not interested in doing that. I don't think the taxpayers would appreciate us doing it. So one of the reasons why I';m in favour of privatisation of Telstra is the present commercial structure constrains Telstra from operating like another company of its size.
MURRAY:
Guy's up next Prime Minister. Good morning Guy.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thanks for your time Paul, thanks for your time Prime Minister. I'd like to thank you for your stance against illegal migrants. That's why I voted for you. Ironically I';m a union member but I never vote Labor. You're a great Prime Minister. You're obviously proud of your country and its national identity. The staging by the two young teenagers who are obviously well fed and well clothed is just simply wrestling lawyers trying to manipulate this country and its policy. And the second factor is please don't sell Telstra. Even though I';m a shareholder we need it to remain in public hands for its profitability and its income to Australia. Once you sell it the prices of phone charges and so forth will simply go up as has happened with the Sydney Airport. So as an Australian I ask you not to sell it.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well can I just say on the question of prices going up the constraint of price movements and everything can apply irrespective of whether something is half owned by the government or not. You can legislate community service obligations, you can legislate a system imposing price constraints whether or not something is owned in part or in whole by government.
MURRAY:
Okay. Thanks Guy. Hello Robert.
CALLER:
Yeah hi Paul. I';m not going to hand out the same propaganda as the last bloke did on the immigration policy. I think that the Government always professes that it's in favour of families and it supports families but here's a family, and this is just one example of many, where the father's been granted protection order. When the rest of the family arrived they should have been reunited with him under that protection order and not locked up separately and continually separated. And to have those kids being sent back so that the father can't rush over and meet them is inhumane in the extreme. How about having a new policy where you reunite families when they arrive at different points and then examine them as a whole instead of examining them in part and separating them off further and further?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well what happened in relation to this family is, I mean the application of immigration policies, not only that apply in Australia but apply around the world, people are assessed when they enter the country. The father entered the country separately from the rest of the family so naturally he was assessed according to the circumstances of his entry and on the basis of what he said about his status and on that basis he was given a temporary visa. I understand that there's now some doubt about the basis on which that was granted.
CALLER:
That's presumptive though isn't it of you?
PRIME MINISTER:
No it's not presumptive of me. I';m simply telling you what I was told.
CALLER:
It's under review.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah. I mean I';m just telling you. I';m not saying any more than that.
CALLER:
The Immigration Minister said a lot more than that….
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I listened to you courteously. You might listen to me courteously in reply.
CALLER:
Sorry.
PRIME MINISTER:
So that is the situation. I mean he applied for and claimed something and that is under review. I don't want to say any more than that. And in relation to the rest of the family they arrived separately. Their claim was assessed, it's been appealed, it has been gone over umpteen times and it has been determined in accordance with international legal principles that they are not refugees. Now this is difficult and I've said that. Nobody likes this situation, least of all me and the Immigration Minister. But the only alternative is to sort of throw up our hands and say well look we give in, anybody can come to Australia irrespective of the circumstances. Well we're just not going to do that.
MURRAY:
Thanks Robert. Good morning Grace.
CALLER:
Yes good morning. Is that the Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes speaking.
CALLER:
That's great. I';m an ex-service girl Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes. When in….
CALLER:
I was in the Air Force.
PRIME MINISTER:
Great.
CALLER:
Now well the fact is I remember you saying on TV that if you got back into Parliament you'd give all those who didn't get the Gold Card you'd give it to us.
PRIME MINISTER:
Ah no.
CALLER:
Yes you did.
PRIME MINISTER:
No I said people over a certain age.
CALLER:
Well I';m….
PRIME MINISTER:
[inaudible] World War II.
CALLER:
Well I';m nearly 86.
PRIME MINISTER:
No I wouldn't have said anything a blanket way. Now you know I wouldn't do that.
CALLER:
No well that's just how you said it you know.
MURRAY:
What was your service?
PRIME MINISTER:
Where did you serve?
CALLER:
[inaudible] depot.
PRIME MINISTER:
I see yeah. Well the Gold Card is available for people with what';s called qualifying service. It may be that some of the service you were involved in didn';t fall into that category. Would you like to [inaudible] care of the station?
CALLER:
What at 6PR?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, all of your details and I';ll have a look at it and I';ll write back to you.
MURRAY:
Grace, just hold on the line. Some of the Prime Minister';s staff are out with the producers, hang on the line and I';ll take your details there.
PRIME MINISTER:
The Gold Card, can I just say to the benefit of people, the Gold Card is available to people who are involved in what';s called qualifying service and there was some service during WWI and WWII and subsequently because they weren';t in a particular theatre of operations, they';re not regarded as qualifying service.
MURRAY:
Last caller, Prime Minister. John, Good morning.
CALLER:
Good morning, Paul. Good morning, Prime Minister. In relation to the illegal people that arrived, the boat people, I can';t understand why you';re in your third term now that you haven';t been able to change some legislation to get away with this continual three and four year waiting list, or three year types of appeals. I think you've certainly had an opportunity there that you could change it and give them a chance of one appeal and if they sre not good enough send them back, because I believe you're hanging onto this caper and using it as a political football and using [inaudible]. You know that we don';t want these illegal people here, so you continue on doing what your doing and let them stay here for years, spending all our money, the taxpayers money, putting them over in little islands and whatever and think that that solves the problem.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, a couple things about that. Your charge that we';re deliberately prolonging this issue for political purposes is wrong. You talk about sending them to little islands. That's presumably a reference to Nauru and Manus. That is not something we';ve done for years. It';s something that';s only occurred during the last twelve months as a result of the circumstances of the Tampa. We have tried persistently to tighten the legislation. We have been blocked on most attempts, not all, by the Labor Party and the Democrats in the Senate. As you know sir, we don';t control the Senate. I wish we did. There'd be a lot of differences in many laws if we controlled the Senate, but we don';t.
CALLER:
You might get close if you went to a double dissolution election.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we';ve just had an election Paul, and I don';t think the Australia public likes elections every six months and they like governments to as far as possible serve out their term.
CALLER:
They might like a Government with control of the Senate.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that';s a matter….I mean I';m servant of the Australian people. What they decide I accept and they';ve decided on three occasions they wanted me as Prime Minister, but they for a combination of reasons wanted a majority, a non Labor, non Coalition majority rather, in the Senate and we have to work with that. We have got some changes through after a lot of haggling but if the Labor Party and the Dem';s had cooperated with us from the beginning in changing the law, many of the delays to which John, I think it is referred, would not of occurred.
CALLER:
Prime Minister can I just get your view on one last issue. Are you worried about the poor performance of super funds in the past two years? It';s obviously leaving many self-funded retirees stranded, concerned about what';s happening to their asset, their declining asset, and worried about the amount of tax they';re paying on their super, particularly the surcharge.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well on the surcharge, we';re trying to cut that and we';re being blocked in the Senate by the Labor Party and the Democrats. I should tell people who want the surcharge rolled back, which we promised we would do at the last election, that we put the legislation up and the Labor and the Democrats are saying they';re going to vote against it. So I hope people who want that surcharge rolled back will get onto their Labor and Democrat Senators and tell them to support a policy that we took to the people. There has been a poorer performance by some of the super funds that';s true. I don';t see that as a permanent feature of the scene. You have to understand that many of them performed in a stellar-way for a long time and it was inevitable there was going to be some settling down and some flattening out, particularly given the fluctuations that have occurred on the stock market and investments. And I still think investment in super is a very good investment.
MURRAY:
Prime Minister, good to talk to you again. Thanks for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thanks you.
[Ends