Subjects: Bali tragedy
E&OE...........
JONES:
The Prime Minister's on the line. Prime Minister, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning, Alan.
JONES:
Prime Minister, you said in Parliament yesterday quote - this intelligence was assessed by agencies and the view formed by them that no alteration in the threat assessment level, then at a high applying to Indonesia, was warranted. Do you think people travelling to Indonesia, say from Australia, knew that there was a threat assessment level at a high?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that's almost impossible to answer. I think people would have known that there was general instability in the country and that for some months there had been general warnings about terrorist activity, and certainly the travel advice issued by the Department of Foreign Affairs said amongst other things that bombs had been exploded in Jakarta and in other parts of Indonesia, and it particularly referred to places where tourists frequented, and it said that further explosions could be attempted.
JONES:
Does this mean that when someone buys a ticket, [inaudible] ticket to go to Bali, that they were given that advice? I mean, I for example pride myself of knowing what's going on and I have never ever seen anything like that by way of advice come across my desk, by the way of information to media or anybody.
PRIME MINISTER:
Alan, I can only repeat what I said that this is the travel advice and how far it is disseminated, I can't…I know it is issued to all travel agents; I know it is made public; I know it is put on the internet; as to how widely it is disseminated beyond that, I would find that question quite impossible to answer. Can I just say that this is…there's an understandable desire for questions to be asked about this and I completely accept that and I'm being quite transparent about it consistent with obviously the need not to say anything that prejudices intelligence sources. But the clear advice I've had, and I'm satisfied on what I've been told, that nothing was received that could be interpreted as a warning of the bombing that took place. Sure there had been for some months generalised warnings about the difficulties in Indonesia and the possibility of terrorist attacks. And there's…and there was repeated reference to that in the newspapers. And in fact on some occasions, people in the Government were, you know, on one to two occasions criticised for being a little too alarmist. But at no stage was anything received and you must understand that the intelligence agencies receive acres of raw intelligence every day, and they have to make an assessment on it, and nothing was received that could be interpreted as a warning of this particular…
JONES:
Well, let me just ask, let me ask this Prime Minister - the US embassy in Jakarta issued a warning to innocent citizens and we exchange intelligence with the United States, on September 26, its precise words were that its citizens should avoid and I quote - large gatherings and locations known to cater primarily to western clientele such as certain bars, restaurants and tourist areas - now this was an exclusively western bar, western club, that information has been given to American citizens. Shouldn't that same information that is specific to the kind of behaviour and activity at Bali?
PRIME MINISTER:
I'll make a couple of comments about that. What you say about the American warning is correct. The judgement was made by the Department of Foreign Affairs that the travel advice given that it warned the possibility of bombings, particularly in areas frequented by tourists, that there was no need therefore to change the travel advice to Australians. Now, it is inevitable that people will after the event criticise that judgement and the public will have to make its mind up as to whether that is… was a fair judgement or not given all of the circumstances…
JONES:
Just suppose…
PRIME MINISTER:
Can I just say one other thing, that I've been informed that the staff of the American embassy from Jakarta were in fact themselves holidaying in Bali last weekend.
JONES:
Yes, I know. But I just want to put this to you - I mean, if I was taking a football team, an end of season football team, and our premiership ended two weeks ago so we could have been going to Bali, shouldn';t I know that the US embassy has issued a warning in this language that they should avoid large…. In other words the United States are saying you should avoid large gatherings and locations known to cater primarily to western clientele such as certain bars, restaurants and tourist areas. You';d say holy nilly, we';re not going to Bali. That';s precisely what that is.
PRIME MINISTER:
You know, look given what has happened and looking backwards rather than forwards, it';s virtually impossible for some people, I mean I can understand some people, I mean I can understand people saying that this should have been said or something else should have been warned, I can only say that the judgment was made by the Department of Foreign Affairs, a travel advice warning of bombings and particularly in relation to locations frequented by tourists, so many would argue that that was an even stronger warning and more explicit one because it talked about bombings.
JONES:
PM you worked around the clock since all this happened trying from here to make sure that Australian interests are catered for, you are aware that families are furious at what they are saying, and I repeat they are saying, the total lack of Government support. They';re asking why it';s taking so long to get even a tiny Australian information post at the morgue and they';re saying that government officials there on the ground seem to be frightened to stepping into help. Are there problems with the fact that we';re working in another nation, are there problems, sensitive problems about the fact that it is Indonesia. Is this criticism legitimate?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Alan we are working in another country and difficult though it is for me to say it, I have to say to people who are understandably very upset and stressed and traumatised by what has happened, we have to work with the Indonesian authorities. It is not a developed country, the medical services and the like are nowhere near as adequate as they are in Australia and that is not a criticism of these poor people. The identification thing is particularly hard.
JONES:
I';d like to touch on that now could we please, there is a problem, international protocol has to be adhered to as I understand, you made that statement to the parliament, and so dental records is one of those, because they';re young they don';t have a dental record, because they';re charred they don';t have fingerprints, so we';ve got this long drawn out process of DNA, that';s about where we are is it?
PRIME MINISTER:
That is where we are and I spoke yesterday to a forensic dental specialistic, Professor Griffiths, who I know, who';s there in Bali working on this, he said that in 50 per cent of the cases you will have to do a DNA and you will have to obtain bone marrow for the DNA sequencing. Then you have to send material back to Australia and you have to do the matching. By way of comparison could I point out to your listeners that the Childers backpacking disaster in Queensland which involved 16 dead, it took two weeks, there were 16 dead, it took two weeks and this was in a controlled crime scene situation.
JONES:
With first class forensic support.
PRIME MINISTER:
With first class forensic support but everything on the spot because it was Australia.
JONES:
And how long did that take?
PRIME MINISTER:
Two weeks.
JONES:
So we';ve now got here perhaps 160?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I hope fewer but there';s a lot of bodies that have to be…
JONES:
What have you been told about how these bodies are being preserved?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I had a lengthy discussion yesterday afternoon with the head of the Department of Foreign Affairs and the head of the consular service in the Department of Foreign Affairs and somebody spoke to the senior Army officer who is in Bali and the advice I now have, and I had it yesterday afternoon was that adequate refrigeration and preservation arrangements have now been made. Now that is what I have been told. We do have a lot of people there. Alan, can I just say to the people who are understandably frustrated, angry, I understand that, I would feel the same way myself. I mean I don';t blame them for getting angry, I don';t blame people for being upset. We are trying, consistent with the need to be absolutely certain of identification and knowing if we don';t work with the Indonesians in the end the situation will be made worse because it is a foreign country. However difficult it is we can';t invade the place, we can';t just take it over, we have to work with the locals, that is hard I know and it';s painstaking and it';s awful and it';s angonising and you know I';m broken hearted for the fact that so many of these people are in this situation but it won';t be improved if we don';t try and work with them. Their culture is different, their way of dealing with things is different, we have just accommodate and work with that and that is exactly what we';re doing. I am in sort of hourly contact with them to make certain that everything that is being done in these extraordinary difficult circumstances is being done.
JONES:
Okay. I thank you for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay.
[ends]