E&OE……………………………………………………………………………………
GATFIELD:
This afternoon the Prime Minister updated Parliament on the crisis and now he joins us from our Canberra studio. Prime Minister thank you for your time. Well you and the Foreign Minister, Alexander Downer, have both said that Australia’s priority now is to find those responsible for the bombing and bring them to justice. Realistically what chance do you think there is of that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it will certainly be very hard but we owe it to the Australian people and most particularly the people who have died and been injured to do everything we can. It must be remembered that this crime was committed in a foreign country and therefore we have to work with and through the police authorities in Indonesia and that’s why Mr Downer and Senator Ellison have gone to Indonesia to see how we can mesh our security and police operation together as tightly as possible. But in the end it will be an Indonesian investigation because the crime was committed on Indonesian soil.
GATFIELD:
Now the United States has indicated that it will back you in your call for the organisation Jemaah Islamiah to be declared a terrorist organisation by the United Nations, what will that achieve and do you have any evidence that JI is in fact responsible?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there is, there are growing indications, I mean you asked me what evidence, in a court of law, we’re not in a court of law. But you piece together pieces of intelligence and information and there’s certainly information that indicates that Al Qaeda has been involved in some way. Just how far I don’t know. I mean if I have the answers to all of these questions then obviously perhaps the course of events over the last few days would have been different. But in the nature of intelligence gathering it’s very difficult, we’re dealing with people who obviously don’t play by the rules of civilised society but certainly there has been a concern for a long time about Jemaah Islamiah, there has been concern of a general character for a long time about potential terrorist threats and attacks in Indonesia, it’s been something that we have expressed concern to the Indonesian Government about, it’s something the Americans have expressed concern about and sadly of course it’s happened in a quite devastating fashion that so badly affected our own country.
GATFIELD:
Indeed, there have in fact been fears for a number of years that terrorist training camps might have been established within the borders of Indonesia for groups such as JI. Do you have any knowledge of that, any information on that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we have a lot of what I might call fragmentary information, some of it I can’t go into the detail of for obvious security reasons, but I can say that for some time now we have been concerned about the terrorist threats and there’s been a general terrorist threat in relation to areas of Indonesia and that’s been reflected in travel advice that’s been given to people going to Indonesia and we have been concerned about this for some time. This atrocity has taken place, and what I want to do is see that everything possible is done to track down the people who did it. Now I don’t pretend for a moment that it will be easy but we must try to our absolute capacity, we owe that to the people who’ve died and been injured.
GATFIELD:
So given the concern about terrorism within Indonesian borders, if it could be shown to your satisfaction that there indeed terrorist training camps within Indonesia would you approve either American or Australian forces being used for what is known as surgical strikes on those camps?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don’t want at this stage to hypothesise, the last thing I can do on something as sensitive and grave as this is to hypothesise, I’m not going to do that.
GATFIELD:
But is that a possibility, that we could see surgical strikes such as we saw in Afghanistan?
PRIME MINISTER:
You’re asking me to hypothesis, I’m not going to do that. I said to the Australian people on Sunday night that we would give a measured but firm response and the way you deliver a measured and firm response is not to hypothesise but to do as we have done, to go to Indonesia, to get beside the Indonesian authorities, to offer our help, to offer our police, to offer our intelligence support and work as closely as possible with the Indonesians to try and find the people responsible. But I’m simply not going to hypothesis.
GATFIELD:
How many world leaders have now called you to offer their support?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I’ve heard personally from President Bush, the British Prime Minister Mr Blair, the Canadian Prime Minister, the South African President, the New Zealand Prime Minister and this afternoon I had a call from Kofi Annan, the Secretary General of the United Nations who’s currently in China, and we had quite a talk, he was very distressed about what had occurred and he naturally conveyed his condolences and that of the United Nations organisation as such to the Australian people.
GATFIELD:
Do you get a sense now that perhaps this incident might harden world opinion in favour of the American and Australian position on the war against terror?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well when you say the American and Australian position there are a lot other countries fighting the war against terror. Australia and America are not the only countries fighting the war against terror, there are British forces in Afghanistan, there are the forces of many other countries. I don’t know many countries that don’t support the war against terror and certainly this terrible atrocity has driven home one simple reality, and that is you don’t fight terrorists by running away from them. And anybody who imagines that you can purchase immunity by speaking softly of terrorism is not only taking a position that’s morally bankrupt but also ignoring the experience of history because there's nothing when you look at the terrorist incidents over the last few years, people are struck down indiscriminately irrespective of whether their country has spoken loudly or softly of terrorism.
GATFIELD:
Now, you're also going to have a review of course a review of our anti-terrorism laws, what do you hope that will achieve?
PRIME MINISTER:
I want to ask again whether in the light of what has happened they're tough enough. I may well come to the conclusion that they are, but we must understand that the 12th of October has changed forever the view that this country must take of terrorism - 11th of September last year did, but this is much closer, it's a foreign country but it's much closer and it's claimed outrageously and obscenely so many of our own people.
GATFIELD:
Does this mean that we might need have to have tighter security around our airports?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, there are a whole range of things that will be caught up in this review. You can't guard everything. I mean, you can't guard every gathering of people. You can't guard every church; you can't guard every club; you can't guard every nightclub; you can't guard every building in which people gather. You must in any kind of civilised open democratic society, you have to prioritise what you do and you also have to recognise that you have limited resources. No country can guard everything, not even the wealthiest and mightiest in the world can do that. But you can prioritise, you can strengthen legislation if that's needed. But this is an event that is shaking the Australian people, very understandably. And as the Prime Minister, as the Head of the Government, I feel quite properly a responsibility to examine everything again. We have strong anti-terrorism capacity; we have strong, very strong, anti-terrorism laws, but in the light of what has happened it really is my obligation to revisit all of this and ask again whether we shouldn't do more or go a bit further.
GATFIELD:
Well Graham Edwards, a Labor MP, has said that you should consider bringing the SAS back from Afghanistan because a terrorist threat is now on our doorstep, the SAS is needed at home. Would you consider that move?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think what the SAS are doing in Afghanistan is fighting the people who are in many senses the source of the problem. The question of what other capacity we might develop in relation to activity closer to Australia is something that obviously is going to be considered. But we don't… I mean as soon as we bring the SAS back from Afghanistan, well unless we have a particular operation in mind, which at this stage I can say we don't, it is far better that they be continued to be deployed in Afghanistan.
GATFIELD:
And perhaps one of the most sensitive issues now is going to be our relations with Indonesia. We have to cooperate in this investigation. Are you satisfied with the way the investigation is going so far? And are you satisfied with the measures that the Indonesian Government is taking to crack down on terrorism?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well John, you say we have to cooperate. Can I just remind you that this atrocity occurred in Indonesia. It's not as if we have any alternative, of course we have to work with the Indonesian Government. This occurred on Indonesian soil, it must be dealt with under Indonesian law. We don't have any alternative. It's not as if we have an option. You can't ignore the reality that Indonesia is a sovereign State and we have to deal with it. We have the very strongest possible view that Indonesia must do all it can to help us find the people who did this. Now, you asked me am I satisfied - look, the investigation has only just started and clearly it's not in our interests for me at this stage to be speculating about whether I'm going to be happy or unhappy with Indonesian cooperation. We want their cooperation and it's hardly productive to getting that for me to answer that question.
GATFIELD:
It so far does seem that measures to evacuate the wounded, to look after those who are in crisis, it's certainly been a very cooperative venture between the two nations. Is it perhaps going to bring our two countries closer together?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, as always out of horror and disaster something good comes. And I do hope that the cooperation that we will seek and we will need to catch the evil people who did this that will be beneficial for the relationship.
GATFIELD:
And Prime Minister, just how do you now assess the threat at home? Obviously there are fears now that this has got so much closer to home, but do you think there is a real threat of terrorist acts within our own shores and within our own borders?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Australia obviously doesn't have the acting terrorist cells that clearly exist in Indonesia and other countries. That's clearly the case and therefore the potential is not as great. But I have to say again, as I've said repeatedly over the last year and I've said with even greater urgency since Sunday, nobody is immune. I can't guarantee there won't be a terrorist attack in Australia. No sane person in my position can do that. We are an open society. We are a mobile society. We can't stop living. We can't live in fear every minute of our lives that something is going to happen. We must be vigilant; we must be careful; we must assert our right to deal with people who pose a threat; we must have strong legislation; we must have strong and well-resourced intelligence services. But all of those things taken together can't guarantee that something in this country of the type that we've seen in Bali won't occur. I can't promise that, I wish I could. I can promise the people that I'll do everything I can to minimise and reduce the risk of it, but I can't guarantee that.
GATFIELD:
Prime Minister, thank you very much. I greatly appreciate your time this evening.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]