Subjects: illegal immigrants; Malcolm Fraser.
E&OE................................
McGRATH:
Mr Howard, thanks for speaking to AM this morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning.
McGRATH:
Prime Minister, the reports are that the Tampa last night issued an emergency medical call, does that change anything? What's your information on that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I've been told that. We have assembled on Christmas Island medical supplies and we have doctors and my latest advice is that by about midday or early afternoon it will possible for a helicopter to go to the Tampa and to land a doctor there along with medical supplies. And we've been working furiously over the last 36 hours to get helicopters to Christmas Island, to be in a position to provide this emergency relief. And we've made it clear all along that we are ready and willing and as soon as we're able, and we hope to be within a matter of a few hours, I would say, on latest advice, midday or early afternoon and we can then send doctors and supplies and medics and so forth out to have a look at the people who, it is said, are ill.
McGRATH:
And will your plan be for the doctors to stay there or will they airlift people back to the mainland or back to.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, in the end medical assessments have to be made by doctors and not by prime ministers and others but the idea would be to provide some on-the-spot assessment and assistance and to leave supplies. The question of what exactly happens after that is something that I will have to take advice on but that is the current position. We have always said that we want to render humanitarian assistance. We will provide food, medical supplies, fresh water, all of the things that are necessary to help the people until this matter is resolved.
McGRATH:
And Prime Minister, do you believe that the Australian public is supportive of the stance your Government's taken?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look, we haven't taken this stance because of this or that assessment of public opinion. We've taken this stance because we believe it is the right thing for Australia to do in our long-term national interest. And we've also taken this stance because it is right in international law. It has to be said again that these people were rescued within the search and rescue operational area for which Indonesia is responsible. I've heard reference earlier in the programme about Australia, in some way, violating the longstanding maritime tradition of helping people in distress. Nothing could be more wrong.
McGRATH:
Well, that's part of a Norwegian, his claim at the moment.
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, let me finish. This is a very important thing because it is an unfair reflection on Australia. Australia is a great seafaring nation too. We understand the traditions of the sea. We are an island continent and in that way we're very different from most other countries and that is one of the great dilemmas we face. We are an island continent and we cannot allow situations to be created where we run the risk of losing control of our borders and losing control of our undoubted, or the implementation of our undoubted right to control who comes to this country. But we haven't violated that international seafaring tradition. This ship was en route to Indonesia after the people had been picked up and under duress the Captain had to abandon that plan and we now have this impasse and I don't think, in all of this debate, that sequence of events should be lost sight of.
McGRATH:
Prime Minister, as you said yourself then, it is now an impasse. You have the Norwegians throwing mud - you just referred to that a moment ago - there are obvious tensions with Indonesia.
PRIME MINISTER:
I'm sorry, I did not use that expression.
McGRATH:
No, I'm sorry, but the Norwegians are throwing mud.
PRIME MINISTER:
I am defending the honour of this country in relation to seafaring traditions and I won't have anybody unfairly criticise our country on those grounds.
McGRATH:
Can I ask you this though there is obviously now a diplomatic stand off, there is an impasse, you have the Norwegians on one side criticising Australia, you have Indonesia refusing to allow them in. It's a difficult situation an impasse as you say, how does it get solved from here?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we continue to talk to the Norwegians, we continue to talk to the shipping company, we continue to talk to the Indonesian Government. There is no doubt that in the medium to longer term a resolution of this whole problem lies in great cooperation between Australia and Indonesia because these people are coming through Indonesia. It is easy to get into Indonesia, many of them are coming through Malaysia, many of them fly from Afghanistan and the Middle East to South East Asia, they have easy entry into a country like Malaysia because there's an unrestricted right of entry I understand from Islamic countries into Malaysia. Now that's Malaysia's right to determine but it has an impact on the ease of entry into Malaysia and thence to Indonesia. And if we can reach the situation where people who are unauthorised arrivals do not leave Indonesia and in turn Indonesia discourages them from coming to Indonesia we begin to have a solution, long term, to this problem. Now we are anxious to talk to the Indonesians about that. We are ready and willing to negotiate an understanding, we are prepared to put significant resources, financial and otherwise into helping Indonesia be part of that solution. We understand Indonesia will need economic and financial help. It is a country with a very large population and we are sensitive to the myriad of other difficulties that the new government has and we have a lot of sympathy for that new government. But we have to talk to the Indonesians and we're anxious to do that about a medium to longer term solution to this problem because we cannot go on indefinitely in our country having a situation where people can have the idea that without lead or hindrance they can get into this country and once they get here irrespective of their claims they stand a good chance of staying indefinitely.
McGRATH:
Prime Minister obviously now time is a factor, the ship is saying it can't continue in an ongoing capacity with this number of people on board. If there is extra pressure on Australia, if people get sick, if there are any law and order issues onboard the ship, will you reverse your position? Will you under any circumstances allow them in?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look our position is very clear, they do not have a right of entry to Australia, the obligation because of the circumstances in which they were taken on board the Norwegian vessel, the obligation under international law is not that we take them, that they go to Indonesia because that's where the people came from originally. We will do everything we can to meet the humanitarian needs of the people on board the vessel and I've outlined our readiness and capacity to do that and I hope that occurs, begins to occur sometime later today. But this is a very important issue for Australia. We are trying to make it plain to the rest of the world that we cannot go on indefinitely with a situation that we've faced over the past several years. Our capacity to take unauthorised arrivals is at breaking point, we have overcrowded detention centres. There are many people who are waiting in pitiful conditions in refugee camps around the world whose assessed entitlement to come to a country like Australia under the international aegis of the High Commission for Refugees is greater than many of the unauthorised arrivals. I've got to make that point, there are literally there are hundreds of thousands indeed millions of people in pitiful conditions whose right to come under international law as refugees is assessed as superior to many of the people who've arrived illegally and I think that is a moral dimension of this whole debate that is often lost.
McGRATH:
Can I just move onto two quick questions Prime Minister if I can, Petro Georgiou in the joint party room yesterday raised concerns about the new legislation and he made the point that he believes that if the current rules were in place during the Second World War that Jews fleeing Nazi Germany wouldn't have been allowed in Australia.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't agree with that assessment, nor do the lawyers who've advised the government on this. He did raise those concerns with me personally, I understand his feelings on these issues and I respect them. I in fact separately for my own satisfaction sought advice and I'm completely satisfied that the legislation as drafted by the minister fully complies with our obligations under international treaties and conventions and in no way would that result as he described it come about.
McGRATH:
And one other issue, the Liberal Prime Minister who preceded you Malcolm Fraser is reported to be unhappy with the chapter on the history of the Liberal Party part of the Centenary of Federation and he's threatening resigning from the Liberal Party. How do you feel about that sort of division, that sort of concern from Malcolm Fraser?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I hadn't heard that he was threatening to resign from the party. I make a habit not to comment publicly about many of the things Malcolm says, I respect very much the job he did as Prime Minister of Australia, I thought he was an excellent Prime Minister of Australia. I thought he did a marvellous job in getting the economy back on an even keel after the wreckage of the three Whitlam years and I was very happy to serve in his government and I've always sought points of agreement and concordance with Malcolm.
McGRATH:
You're sorry to see this sort of division, this.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well lets not sort of exaggerate it, there are reports but I sometimes find in political life that the reports are not validated by subsequent behaviour.
McGRATH:
Prime Minister thanks for speaking to AM this morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.