PM Transcripts

Subjects: Election campaign; Knowledge Nation; cost of Labor promises; Telstra; war on terrorism; ABC; illegal immigration
MITCHELL:
In the studio with me is the Prime Minister, Mr Howard good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning, Neil.
MITCHELL:
Do you agree Victoria could be a key in the end?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh yes, a lot of seats here.
MITCHELL:
Is Labor in front?
PRIME MINISTER:
It';s tight. I think the whole election is still quite unpredictable. We';re happy with the way the campaign';s gone but it';s very unpredictable. And I certainly don';t take Victorians for granted and we have a lot of marginal seats in this State, a large number, and I';m going, you know, going very hard because I think it';s going to go right down to the wire.
MITCHELL:
Okay. Prime Minister, in an election campaign, tax reform. Now we know there are financial difficulties but if you are returned will you agree to examine tax bracket creep, income tax bracket creep, will you examine in the next term the possibility of indexing tax rates?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, let me answer that question this way, that if the budget situation allows we would always want to give a preference to further income tax relief but I really don';t want to be heard to be dangling that carrot when on all the forward predictions the budget situation';s going to be tight for the next three years. And I want to level with the Australian people and say that in the income tax area all we can afford to offer we have offered. If I took the leaf out of the Beazley book I might have promised a tax cut in five years time. That wouldn';t have had a lot of credibility and I, therefore, haven';t done it but that basically is what he';s done with Knowledge Nation. It';s all out there in four, five, six, seven, eight or nine year';s time. I don';t think that';s very realistic.
MITCHELL:
That';s one of the things that worries me here, though, from both sides. You';re both making promises. You';re both saying you will spend money. We have uncertain times, as you say, now if the forecasts are wrong…
PRIME MINISTER:
Ours is a lot more modest than theirs.
MITCHELL:
Yeah, but it';s still there. I mean, if the economic downturn';s as bad as it could be do you drop the promises or do you pay for them either with new taxes or [inaudible]
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don';t believe that the promises we';ve made are other than quite achievable and quite affordable and they are based on the best advice we have about the likely course of the economy and they are a lot more conservative than Labor';s. And on the costing can I just say that it';s imperative and urgent that Mr Beazley sends his policies to Treasury and Finance for costing. That';s not something we';ll influence. We';ve sent all our costings. We sent them yesterday to the Treasury and Finance Departments and it';s imperative in the interests of proper accountability that Mr Beazley do exactly the same thing.
MITCHELL:
But we are, as you stress, we';re in such uncertain times, you';ve got the boat people, economic downturn, war…
PRIME MINISTER:
That is why our tax offerings have been quite modest.
MITCHELL:
If the money isn';t there are your promises written in stone and if they are how do you…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we believe the money is there for our modest commitments.
MITCHELL:
And if it';s not?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don';t hypothesise.
MITCHELL:
Well, you';re asking Kim Beazley to.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I';m asking him to have his promises costed.
MITCHELL:
Labor says it will get money from tax dodgers as part of the…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I mean, they said that in 1996. I mean, that is sort of the ultimate envy magic pudding. You know, if you';ve got a shortfall, you say, oh well, we';ll get it all from tax avoidance. I mean, we have pursued a lot of tax dodgers very vigorously and we will go on doing that. But I mean that is just a hardy annual from the Labor Party, Ralph Willis dragged that out in 1996 right on the death knock and I don';t think it is very believable.
MITCHELL:
Will you agree, or will you promise not to introduce any new taxes?
PRIME MINISTER:
That is our commitment and that remains our commitment.
MITCHELL:
That';s a promise
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes
MITCHELL:
And increase no taxes.
PRIME MINISTER:
We have no plans to increase taxes.
MITCHELL:
Is that as solid a commitment …?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
MITCHELL:
Is it a promise?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well a commitment, I thought a commitment was a promise
MITCHELL:
OK. Do you have full confidence in the Taxation Department in the way that it has been run?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think that it is a very difficult job, I think by and large they do a good job but I think there is a case to have somebody out there acting as a bit of a arbiter for people who have complaints that in no way compromises the political independence of the Tax Office and that is why I';ve offered to appoint an Inspector General of the Tax Office. And that is partly born out of concerns that have been expressed to me about the handling of certain issues and whilst I as a former Treasurer know how hard it is to run the Tax Office I think there are some areas where some of those complaints deserve a fuller airing and an airing that would enable this person and his office to interact with the Tax Office in the way that the Treasurer, because of the political independence of the Tax Office can';t really do.
MITCHELL:
It strikes me the changes with contractors which we have discussed before are still a mess …
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I wouldn';t agree that they are a mess, I wouldn';t agree they are a mess, I think we have made some very significant improvements.
MITCHELL:
The Baby Bonus?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes
MITCHELL:
That is written in stone?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
MITCHELL:
That will happen. When did that idea come up? I interviewed the Minister the day after and she seemed pretty vague on the details. When did that idea come up?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh it was being kicked around for quite a while.
MITCHELL:
OK. The problem…..I have a problem with it though…
PRIME MINISTER:
I mean it is obviously something that, you know, we didn';t, we kicked it around amongst Ministers and that is what you do with those things.
MITCHELL:
The problem I have with it though is that you get at least $500 minimum but Peter Costello said that 245, 000 babies will get it if you like or 245 000 families, well the average on that is $347 each because you are only allowing $85 million.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there is a very, very slow take up
MITCHELL:
Yeah but you';re estimating 245 000 babies in that year and you are allowing 85 million which is a minimum of $347.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I haven';t done the maths on that, I could go away and do the same sums.
MITCHELL:
But you are guaranteeing that $500.
PRIME MINISTER:
I am.
MITCHELL:
But you might have to put more money in if those figures are correct.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the costings are quite accurate, they have been done independently.
MITCHELL:
Telstra….
PRIME MINISTER:
I didn';t do them on the back of an envelope.
MITCHELL:
No I didn';t suggest that you did but I just wondered that there seemed to be an inconsistency there to me.
PRIME MINISTER:
I don';t think that there is.
MITCHELL:
We';ll check. Telstra? When it is sold will there be a social bonus?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it won';t be sold, the rest of it won';t be sold until we are satisfied that things have been fixed in the bush therefore for me to start talking about a social bonus is premature.
MITCHELL:
Is it likely to all go to pay off debt?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Neil I think its inappropriate for me to speculate about something that is not going to happen until we are satisfied about things that, which are yet to occur.
MITCHELL:
I read in the Australia that Econtech Director, Chris Murphy, that is your preferred economic consultant isn';t it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well he is good but he has given us a bit of grief on a few issues, he is not on our pay roll.
MITCHELL:
As far, he says as far as I know there is no allowance for the proceeds of Telstra to be spent on anything other than debt retirement.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there are all sorts of hypotheses involved in that and one of them is that we will sell further shares in Telstra and we are not going to do that until we are satisfied that things in the bush are OK.
MITCHELL:
But it';s still your aim to do it.
PRIME MINISTER:
Our aim is to fix things in the bush.
MITCHELL:
And then sell Telstra?
PRIME MINISTER:
We will fix things in the bush first and then we will see what happens.
MITCHELL:
But Prime Minister there has been an enormous amount of dodging around this from both sides.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no it';s not dodging. I mean hang on, we went through the election campaign in 1996 with a policy of selling what, a third of it and we were quite up front about that and we were elected on that basis and we had a social bonus and we put another bill through to sell more of it and what I am now saying is that we are not going to go any further until we are satisfied that things in the bush are OK and I am simply not going to be drawn on a hypothetical situation if and when that event arises. I am simply not going to do that and I don';t think that is dodging, I think that is being very up front and saying ‘our priority is to get things in the bush fixed'; and I am focused on that and I am not going to speculate about what might happen then.
MITCHELL:
With respect I think it is a simple and direct question. Is it your intention to sell Telstra?
PRIME MINISTER:
It is our intention to fix things in the bush and we will sell no more shares in Telstra until that occurs and it is my intention not to speculate beyond that.
MITCHELL:
You speculate on Kim Beazley and what he will do with Telstra and what he will do with other things. Why is it unreasonable saying yes we are going to sell it when we fix it?
PRIME MINISTER:
No no, but Neil, the reason why I do that is that it goes to his credibility because we are arguing that, I mean he is railing against everything that we have done in relation to Telstra yet when he was in Government he was clearly involved in discussions about the sale of it. Now that goes to his credibility.
MITCHELL:
Well Peter Costello told me two weeks ago before the figures were public that it was still the intention and the aim to sell Telstra. Is he right?
PRIME MINISTER:
I haven';t read the transcript of what he said, I am just telling you though Neil what the government';s policy is and I actually saw him on television the other day expressing total agreement with everything that I have said.
MITCHELL:
He has changed around a bit on Telstra
PRIME MINISTER:
I won';t… I haven';t seen what he said I am just stating what the government';s policy is.
MITCHELL:
OK, Jonathan Shier is departing, has the board made an error in appointing him?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look I am not going to get into that. We appoint a Board, I have a lot of confidence in the Board. It really is a matter for them. You can';t have a Board of talented men and women as they are and then presume to double guess what they do.
MITCHELL:
So you have got full confidence in that Board?
PRIME MINISTER:
Full confidence.
MITCHELL:
Do you believe Jonathan Shier did a good job?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look I just don';t want to comment on it because it is not within my remit. You appoint a Board, the media generally argues with great passion, particularly the ABC that they should be utterly independent of the Government, now I am taking them at their word and saying yes you are independent of the Government, we have a Board and the Board has taken the decision and I am just not going to, I mean I don';t know….
MITCHELL:
Your Minister did, Senator Alston, today said he did a good job.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I am not going to offer any criticism of the man, I am simply acknowledging that it is a decision for the Board and I really don';t have any further comment.
MITCHELL:
Do you have any plans to put more money into the ABC (inaudible)?
PRIME MINISTER:
We lifted the ABC funding in the last budget and we don';t have any plan to put any more in, we think that we have treated the ABC fairly. The ABC had to accept some reduction in 1996 when we had a big deficit and the only area that was excluded then was Defence but in recent years we have put a bit more back into the ABC and we did more in the last budget. I think that the ABC is appropriately funded, I don';t think there is a case for more money and we won';t be promising any more.
MITCHELL:
Would you respond to this? The former head of the ABC, David Hill has said the Chairman Donald McDonald should resign over the Jonathan Shier appointment and departure.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don';t think Mr McDonald should resign, I think Mr McDonald is doing a very good job. The Government reappointed him for a second term so clearly the government has great confidence in him and I don';t accept the criticism from Mr Hill.
MITCHELL:
There was a spontaneous outbreak of partying amongst ABC Staff last night. Beer fridges all over the ABC were being thrown open. Does it look like the lunatics in charge of the asylum?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am not going to talk about it. I know this is sort of good fun in the media but I am staying away from it.
MITCHELL:
There seems to be a great deal, almost an undue amount of interest in the ABC that exists and it is part of Labor Party policy to give them more money.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we support having a public broadcaster. And the ABC over the years has made a great contribution in a number areas, we think the ABC is appropriately funded and we are not in favour of giving them more money. We think the ABC is appropriately funded at the present time.
MITCHELL:
What is your view of Kim, Kim Beazley yesterday made a, in his speech made a point I think of leadership again “I give you a plan, John Howard gives you a retirement plan” What is your view of his abilities as a leader?
PRIME MINISTER:
Ah look I think it is a bit unreal of me to give a commentary on him. Look can I say this about my attitude to him. I bear him no malice and I am not somebody who is sort of burnt up in hostility towards him as an individual. I am not obsessed with any personal dislike of him. That is not the issue. I think he is very misguided. I thought that it was a Whitlam era speech. It was very interesting, he has skipped back a generation and I mean, it could have been a Whitlam speech rather than the speech of a modern leader. I mean I find that very interesting, the criticism is so frequently made of me that I am meant to be, sort of, in a previous generation. If you looked at the program and the speech it is very much a Whitlam Labor speech rather than a Hawke or Keating Labor speech. Very, very interesting, quite old fashioned.
MITCHELL:
Bit of a compliment there, Gough was a good speaker.
PRIME MINISTER:
..well he was a lousy Prime Minister.
MITCHELL:
Do you still believe that Kim Beazley doesn';t have the ticker for the job?
PRIME MINISTER:
I still don';t think he is a person who will make tough decisions.
MITCHELL:
Has he got the ticker or not?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that was an expression that I used on this program and I won';t resile from it
MITCHELL:
We will take a quick break and then more from the Prime Minister.
[commercial break]
Mr Howard was there anything good in Kim Beazley';s speech yesterday.
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh look, look I';m not a commentator, I can only repeat…
MITCHELL: Any ideas to pinch…
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh well, I am not in a pinching mood at the moment, I';m in an advocacy mood, I really don';t want to become a commentator except to repeat the point I made earlier. My differences with the man are on policy, it is not a personal thing.
MITCHELL:
The…there is some interpretation around the world that the war against Afghanistan is not going well, criticism has built in the United States, I noticed the British Prime Minister defending it and urging people not to forget what happened on September 11. Do you agree that perhaps it is losing some public support?
PRIME MINISTER:
I haven';t found it here, moving around, but I knew that this kind of criticism would arise after a period of time. It always happens. Its… I don';t think that they could be doing, doing it any differently but it is always the case as days and weeks, and that turns into months, go by people forget some of the sense of outrage and the magnitude of what happened. I mean it is natural that some people should start raising questions. I haven';t found it in Australia yet, I really haven';t as I have moved around people are still very strongly in support. They don';t….they';re unhappy, everybody is, I guess concerned, depressed, that things have gotten to this pass but I don';t find any weakening of support in Australia for our commitment, not yet.
MITCHELL:
Did you expect that it would, that it would have proceeded better than this?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, the military campaign? No. These things are very difficult and they take time and there is a tendency in our instant gratification kind of world, instant reaction kind of world where people think gee why can';t they do it in 48 hours when they have all of the weapons, all of the high tech, all of the this and the that, it';s not like that.
MITCHELL:
Do you believe that the action will stop for Ramadan?
PRIME MINISTER:
I, I wouldn';t offer a view on that, I think, I think they will take a pragmatic approach on that.
MITCHELL:
I suppose they probably would
PRIME MINISTER:
They could.
MITCHELL:
And then we are into winter which (inaudible)
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don';t, I mean I have a very strong view that once you give the military a responsibility for something if it is within our defined political objectives, I don';t think we should be double guessing and I don';t think that Prime Minister or Presidents should play Generals. I think it is a huge mistake.
MITCHELL:
Have, do we yet know when our SAS troops will leave Australia
PRIME MINISTER:
No. There is some negotiating going on about their basing arrangements near the possible theatre of operations and that hasn';t been settled yet and until that is settled I won';t know exactly when.
MITCHELL:
I read today that the economic confidence in the United States is down perhaps even more than expected. What are the implications of that for Australia?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we thought it would, we thought America would take a big hit after the 11th of September. All of the indications we have are that we will slow and that is factored in, but not slow dramatically.
MITCHELL:
Will jobs go in Australia?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we hope not. I can';t give and nobody can give explicit guarantees about particular levels. I can only point to what has happened and that is that we have cut unemployment, we have generated 830 000 jobs. Some sectors of the tourist industry have been badly hit by both Ansett and the American downturn. I find though that other parts of the economy are still extremely strong, very strong. I was at a very large gathering in Sydney yesterday of people from the business community in that city and there is still an enormous amount of buoyancy.
MITCHELL:
Prime Minister after the election if boat people keep coming where do they go? The Pacific is filling up.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we believe that the number of people entering the pipeline is slowing, that is our intelligence so we are hoping that particularly with the onset of more difficult conditions weather wise we think that the impact of our policy will certainly reduce the number of people going into the pipeline and that is our intelligence.
MITCHELL:
I read today that Vietnamese, Vietnamese boat people have been found near…(inaudible)
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes they, Philip Ruddock will be saying something about that later today but of course we will be talking to the Vietnamese government about that.
MITCHELL:
So you think there is a new influx, we are facing a new influx?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I, the best indication we have is that that is a bit of a one off, it is a relatively small number, we think it is a bit of a one off.
MITCHELL:
So what is the point of discussion with the Vietnamese Government. What is the point you want to make with them.
PRIME MINISTER:
It is really just a question of returning them.
MITCHELL:
These people?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
MITCHELL:
Where will they be landed?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we are just giving that consideration at the present time, obviously they won';t be allowed onto the Australian mainland.
MITCHELL:
They may well be returned to Vietnam?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we will talk, that is what I mean by talking to the Vietnamese Government.
MITCHELL:
Do you think you have got more chance with Vietnam than you have had success with Indonesia?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think probably, yes, yes.
MITCHELL:
The Indonesian Foreign Minister has been critical of you and the Australian Government for snubbing his country';s leadership and we have got something of what he said. He says relations with the President are not good between Australia and the President. This is what he said
This is certainly on many ways are not acceptable. To go public on accusing the other side of doing something wrong and then, and we don';t want to, it is not our habit to go through this process.
That is the Indonesian Foreign Minister saying there are strained relations between you and President Megawati. Is he right?
PRIME MINISTER:
I did not experience that in Shanghai.
MITCHELL:
Are you concerned by the Foreign Minister saying something such as this?
PRIME MINISTER:
I would like to know more of a context to that. I don';t want to over react to it because part of the difficulty in a relationship with countries that have cultural differences is that different things are interpreted different ways. I may have said to you before, I may have said to some interviewer, President Megawati';s unwillingness to return a phone call is seen in a particular light in Australia because our culture is that in those circumstances it is impolite not to return peoples calls. In other cultures it can be seen quite differently. It can be seen as not wishing to give offence because they can';t agree with what they think your request is going to be. Now you have to make some allowances for that and I don';t mean that in any critical sense, I just accept that they are differences and my mail is that I am not the only person that has had that experience and I am speaking here of people from other countries, I don';t mean from Australia.
MITCHELL:
Have you discussed it with other countries?
PRIME MINISTER:
I have had…. I have chatted informally but once again I don';t want to run the risk of giving offence by publicly talking about it. Look, it is not an easy relationship but it is a relationship that we patiently work on, but it has got to be a relationship that is built on mutual respect. I don';t think it was a particularly easy, I mean it seemed to me to be a bit of a, a bit of a one sided relationship under my predecessor.
MITCHELL:
What do you mean, too friendly from Australia?
PRIME MINISTER:
I thought, I don';t think we had, we got as much in return as we gave.
MITCHELL:
Kow-towed to them?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don';t want to use words like that cause once again that is not helpful in the present circumstances.
MITCHELL:
Kerry Packer and James Packer of PBL have announced they are going to run an online gambling operation from Vanuatu. Isn';t that getting around your legislation?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they can do what is within the law, they…like everybody else they are subject to the law. I must say I haven';t examined it, I don';t know whether…
MITCHELL:
I remember you Minister told me at the time, the aim was to stop any Australian company running an online gambling facility regardless of where they put it.
PRIME MINISTER:
Look I would have to look at the details. I don';t want to give a kerbside opinion.
MITCHELL:
Just finally, what do you think, here we are a week out, what matters to the people of Australia, what are the issues that matter?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think the two things that matter most to them are: Who will manage the economy better and who can best lead the country at a time when there is a bigger threat to national security in its broad sense than we have probably had for a generation and that is what I think matters most to people. Because in the end if you don';t have a growing economy you can';t spend more money on education. I mean one of the things that came to me out of Mr Beazley';s speech yesterday was that after all of the talk there wasn';t anything in the nature of an education blockbuster in it and one of the reasons for that is that we have actually spent a lot of extra money on education. I mean we have increased by 43% Federal spending on government schools in this country even though enrolments in those schools have only gone up by 1.8% over the last five and half years. We, at the beginning of the year announced a lot of extra money for universities and for research and so forth so… Everybody believes in a well-educated society and a lot of this work and a lot of this investment has occurred and the reason why it has occurred is that we have run a growing economy. I think that people do understand that, that you can promise the earth in five or ten years time but unless you have a growing economy you can';t deliver it.
MITCHELL:
If you lose this election will you leave parliament?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look if I were to lose the question of what would happen to my parliamentary career is something that I would then think about and I would talk to my party and my constituents about it. I am not really, look, I don';t know what is going to happen and I am a realist, I hope I win, I am passionate about winning, I want the job just as passionately as Mr Beazley is. I really do, I really do want to win again because I think that I have a lot to offer the Australian people in these difficult times but the question of what happens to me if we lose, well I haven';t really focussed on it any more than I am really focused on what I do if I, you know, in the first little while if I win, I just want to, I am focused on talking to the Australian people over the next eight or nine days.
MITCHELL:
I mean you are not focused on if you win ‘the first thing I do is';?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh yes, well one of the first things I am going to do is to convene a meeting of Premiers and Chief Ministers of the Territories to talk about law enforcement and crime. I mean, Ibout law enforcement and crime. I mean, I am talking really about a personal sense, not in a political sense.
MITCHELL:
I would think you would have a holiday wouldn';t you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I probably will have a break at Christmas but once again you do get very, very focused on the job and I really do believe I have a lot to offer and I have a lot of energy and commitment and I am very focused on the challenges this country has.
MITCHELL:
Thank you for time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]