Subjects: Tax reform
E&OE ....
NEWTON:
Good morning Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning, very nice to be here.
NEWTON:
Well it's good to have you here too. Pretty quiet weekend? What did you do?
PRIME MINISTER:
I did a bit of shopping.
NEWTON:
Yes, exactly, matter of fact, a lot of Australians did a bit of shopping over the weekend. And I was just thinking before coming on air, to realise the advantage of July the first being the start of a weekend, it would have to been as an advantage.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, it wasn't designed that way, but that's just how it fell out. It was an interesting day. I went out in two parts of my own electorate in Sydney, one part Top Ryde which is very much sort of a snapshot of middle Australia and I talked to a lot of people, tried to pay the GST on a cappuccino, but a couple of very friendly blocks refused to let me do so. I don't think that will happen again, but then I talked to a lot of traders, shop keepers, most of them small shop keepers. I knew a couple of them, most of them I didn't know and they all said they were ready. Sure it had taken a bit of work, they didn't pretend otherwise but they did say they were ready. I talked to a lot of shoppers, most of them said well, they've taken it in their stride, a couple of people said didn't go up as much as they thought another person said I don't like the GST, but I want my two children to meet the Prime Minister. So even one of my critics, another bloke yelled out that I ought to go down to the pub and find out what the drinkers thought - I said it was too early in the morning for me.
Overall it was an interesting experience and I took the opportunity of wandering around listening to people, then I went to the Macquarie shopping centre which is also in my electorate, slightly different cross section of people there and met the managing director of Woolies who told me about the way they worked hard to get the thing ready.
I think we have got to give a pat on the back to all the sales people in these big department stores and in the smaller shops, many of them worked through the night and they'd have been therefore a bit weary the next morning and I think they've done a fantastic job and I would like to give them a pat on the back for working so damn hard to get ready for it.
NEWTON:
Prime Minister, given that you have mentioned those couple of incidents with the drinkers etc, was there anything which you would consider to be abuse when you were doing the walk.
PRIME MINISTER:
One bloke was pretty unhappy, but then you always get that. I mean he could have been the local branch secretary of the ALP, I don't know, that sometimes does happen. People do pose as outraged citizens, but I don't pretend that there aren't critics of this change. You never do anything big in political life without some people being critical of it, but overall this is a very good change for the country. People over the next few days will start getting their pay packets and they will see that their income tax is being cut in many cases by a lot more than they expect and I believe that when the thing's been given a fair trial and a fair chance for the ups and down to be weighed against each other, I believe that people are going to give it a tick.
NEWTON:
You mentioned small business there before. Do you worry about the reaction of the breweries, particular lines in suggesting they are going to take a step further in relationship to the excise tax because that is not good for the picture you are trying to paint is it?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I think the breweries are being a bit selfish - I do. But we will wait and see. What we are doing is perfectly legal. It is true that beer across the counter is going up by more than packaged beer, that's right, because there's a service component in it. My understanding is that it's going up depending on what brand it is across the counter. It is going up by between 6% to 8% whereas packaged beer is going up by much less. It will vary a bit around the country.
NEWTON:
You have got to admit, it's a pretty hike isn't it? 6% to 8%?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it is a fair hike, but you have also got to remember that 75% of beer sales in Australia are packaged beer from bottleshops 75% and you have also got to remember that every body who's buying a beer is getting a tax cut. What I ask people to do is not look at in compartments. What you have got to do is look at the overall effect on you and there are a lot of things that go down because the wholesales tax is taken off and the 32 items in the Choice magazine's consumer basket, according to Woolworths, has gone down by something like 2.5 to 3.4%. Now that's gone down in price, those whole 32 items. I went through them, I had a shopping trolley in front of me on Saturday and I went through all of these items. And this was before the tax cuts. When you take the tax cuts in to account, I believe people are going to find themselves better off, they are not going to feel that they have lost 10% of their purchasing power and that they will give it the whole program a tick.
NEWTON:
But from a public relations point of view and it's very important for you to have this lock in, the GST and to become part of our life. But when you've got major, major people like the breweries suggesting they're going to do this, it's not good for your PR is it? Because [inaudible] headlines.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, I don't think it's terribly good for their PR either. I think a lot of people will be saying why should the breweries be any different.
NEWTON:
They are not going up for election though are they?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, but it doesn't stop people making judgements on them. But politics is not, unless you are prepared to sit there and do nothing, there are always challenges and difficulties and what I ask people to do is to look at the overall effect on them. Wait ?til you get your tax cuts. Have a look at them and do your sums. I mean I had somebody ring me in my electorate office at six o'clock on Friday night. He was a naval person from Nowra and he said that he and his wife have had a part time job and have just got forward information about their incomes and they had worked out that they were going to be $200 a fortnight better off and they did all their calculations and they worked out that when you made allowance for the GST, they were going to be a long way in front and he was quite excited about it. He said it was much better than he expected.
NEWTON:
I have got to ask you, how did he get the phone number?
PRIME MINISTER:
It's in the phone book.
NEWTON:
Oh right..
PRIME MINISTER:
This is my electorate office.
NEWTON:
Oh right. But he spoke to you personally.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, he spoke to one of my staff who was out in the electorate office in the Sydney suburb of Gladesville and he was quite excited and he was quite positive. He said the tax cut is much better than what I expected. Now some people would have done their calculations and they'll know in advance exactly what they are going to get. But this is going to be the experience over the next two weeks because people will I think, you will have a lot of public service pays I think next Thursday and you are going to have over the next few days, weeks and up to a month, you are going to have people getting their pay packets and finding out exactly how many dollars they will have more in their pay packets as a result of the tax cuts and then they've got to weigh that against their shopping bills and then and only then you can make a judgement and my guess is that most people will be favourably impressed with the size of their tax cuts because we haven't had a tax cut in this country for something like, oh gee, more than a decade. The last one we were promised was snaffled after the election in 1993 by Mr Keating.
NEWTON:
Right. Can we talk about election promises and so forth because you did promise that there wouldn't be a GST. I mean?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I did, I did. No, I did Bert, but having changed my position, I then took that changed position to the Australian public and gave them an opportunity in 1998 to throw me out if they didn't like my changed position.
NEWTON:
Do you think they're waiting now for the next time? Do you really believe that the GST could be an issue at the next election. You've got to call it what before the end of next year though do you?
PRIME MINISTER:
The end of next year. It's due October, November of next year and I don't see any reason to go early at this stage?
NEWTON:
You wouldn't go this year at all?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no there is no reason at all to go this year. I don't think people like early elections, they don't. They expect you to govern for the term they give you and I am not saying that there aren't circumstances that would justify early elections on some occasions but I don't certainly see any this year.
NEWTON:
The other subject of course is the Aboriginal situation and..
PRIME MINISTER:
I seemed to have lost Melbourne.
NEWTON:
Can you hear me?
[audio drop out ? went to a break]
NEWTON:
I'm pleased to say we have the Prime Minister back in our Sydney studios. Mr Howard, sorry about that.
PRIME MINISTER:
That's okay.
NEWTON:
Unfortunately I'm not getting him. I'm only joking.
PRIME MINISTER:
I can hear you.
NEWTON:
Yes I can hear you [inaudible].
PRIME MINISTER:
You can?
NEWTON:
Yes I can. I do apologise. This is the last time Charlie Perkins does audio I can tell you that. I was getting to the situation. The obvious question to ask you about reconciliation, there is still no ?I'm sorry'. But can I just ask you ? Corroboree 2000, did it surprise you with the interest and the numbers that turned up?
PRIME MINISTER:
It didn't surprise me so much the walk across the Harbour Bridge. A lot of people like myself think reconciliation is a great idea. I have a difference of view about a formal national apology.
NEWTON:
For what reason?
PRIME MINISTER:
Because I don't think the present generation of Australians can be held accountable for things that were done by earlier generations particularly when those things were sanctioned by the law at the time. I'm prepared?..
NEWTON:
Are you concerned [inaudible] implications that an apology would bring?
PRIME MINISTER:
That is an element, but it's not the main element. But it is an element. But when I do something wrong to somebody I say I'm sorry, I apologise because I've done it and I'm accountable for it. But when somebody else does something to you that hurts you I say I'm sorry but I don't apologise because I didn't do it. So that is as best as I can explain it as to the attitude that I take. And I think these people that keep saying to me when are you going to say sorry, I mean I actually said sorry a million times and I am sorry that people were mistreated in the past. But I think there's a difference between feeling a sense of regret and sorrow about what happened and a formal apology accepting in some way responsibility for that. Now I know this is not a popular view with some people but it's a view I hold to quite sincerely. And it's not only a view that I personally hold, it's a view that the overwhelming majority of the Liberal and National Party members in Canberra hold.
NEWTON:
Do you think the overwhelming majority of Australians feel that way though?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't??, no I think it's mixed. I think a lot of Australians would agree with me and a lot wouldn't. I think it is very mixed.
NEWTON:
Would you put it to a referendum?
PRIME MINISTER:
Whether you should have a national apology? No I don't think governments should do that. I mean if you put that to a referendum you've got to put everything to a referendum and governments wouldn't do anything. That's why we have elections every three years. If you don't like what the government's doing then you vote against it. But I don't think you can have a situation where you have a plebiscite or a referendum on every difficult issue. You have to have a referendum on certain things to change the constitution because that's the law. But I think on other things the government has got to have the courage to take its stand and if people agree with it they'll support it, if they don't they'll vote against it.
NEWTON:
Aren't we talking about humanity here and??
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes we are and I think the way to demonstrate our humanity to the Aboriginal people is to address their health needs, to try and give them jobs, to try and give them a better education, to try and address the dysfunctional character of some of their communities. That's what we are trying to do. I mean?..
NEWTON:
But that's true of all Australians, that's what you wish for them.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes it is, it is, it is. But you see Aboriginal Australians as a group are more disadvantaged than any other identifiable group. And I take the view that we should embrace practical reconciliation. We should try and give them better health and those things. And a form of words is not a substitute for that.
NEWTON:
Do you tire of talking about it?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I don't tire of talking about anything that is important to the Australian people. I'm accountable to them and through people like you the Australian people. And you have the perfect right to ask me any questions you like about these matters. My suspicion is that a lot of Australians agree with my stand and a lot don't, and I think it will always be the case.
NEWTON:
Just finally, given that the last couple of days would have to be seen as some of the most important days in your political career, particularly in your prime ministership, and your leadership of the Liberal Party. Just finally, it just seems that you're moving with a lot of confidence at the moment. Your spirits seem to be up. Is that a veneer or is that a reality?
PRIME MINISTER:
No it's not a veneer. It's been very tough over the last few months because we've been moving towards this tax reform and we've in a sense been like a boxer with one hand tied behind his back. Perhaps even two on occasions. And it's been easy for the Opposition to hit us because all it had to do is have a scare a day and we reply but then you move onto the next one. But now it's happened and people can make their own judgement and I believe that this reform is good for the country and at long last we're free of that sort of constraint. The world didn't come to an end on Saturday as Mr Beazley suggestion. Chicken Little did not arrive. And I think that we are now in a situation where people have an opportunity of looking at what we've done and they will make their own judgement and I think it will be positive.
NEWTON:
I should mention Chicken Little is our next guest. I thank you for your time. Another full term for you in office would you believe?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I've said that I'll lead the party to the next election if they want me to. And after that, well I, nobody goes on forever but I'm in very good health. And it's just really in the end, this is not, I mean I don't own this job. It's a gift of the Australian people to me through the Liberal Party.
NEWTON:
But a gift you're enjoying?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I am.
NEWTON:
Have to leave it there. Audio's due for another tea break. Thanks for your time and bon voyage this afternoon. We'll see you when you get back.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]