9 September 1999
Subjects: East Timor
E&OE……………………………………………………………………………………….
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, I’d like to brief you on where things have come to in relation to East Timor today. I’ve had a number of important discussions this morning. The first that I would like to canvass is a lengthy discussion I had with Mr Ian Martin who is the head of UNIMET in Dili. It was the first direct discussion I’d had with Mr Martin. He indicated to me that the current situation regarding UNIMET in Dili was that the mission was not being withdrawn, that it was proposed to reduce the size of the contingent down to a number of, in the order 40, and that the intention was that that would remain.
The indications are that although the situation remains very difficult and quite unsatisfactory the security position has not deteriorated today. Food and water is available to the UNAMET contingent and the intention of the United Nations is that they should maintain that presence in Dili. I indicated to Mr Martin that the Australian Government would, to the extent that it was allowed, provide food, water and all other supplies that might be needed by the UNAMET contingent in Dili.
I also had the chance to talk again to Mr Alan Mills who’s the Commander of the Australian Federal Police contingent and he confirmed essentially what I’d been told by Mr Martin. He remains, as I found him when I spoke to him on Monday night, a very clam and impressive figure who has provided magnificent leadership to the AFP contingent. And I again record my gratitude to the calm and professional way in which Australian personnel, consulate people, the Australian Federal Police, the military liaison officers and the military attaché at the Australian Embassy, Brigadier Mowlen who’s been very heavily involved in the discussions with the local TNI commanders and very heavily involved in negotiating on the ground. We should all, as Australians, be especially proud of the contribution that these people have made in a very difficult situation.
The second discussion I had, or the second discussion I ought to mention, although the discussion took place before the first two that I’ve mentioned, was with President Clinton who rang me at about ten past eight this morning to discuss my and his assessment of the situation. He indicated to me that they were continuing in different ways to try and persuade the Indonesians to assert more control over the situation in East Timor, or in default of that, to agree to the introduction of a peacekeeping force.
The situation regarding an American contribution to an international peacekeeping force is that if there is a decision to commit a multinational force then the United States will support that commitment in a tangible way. Discussions are continuing on the nature of that support. I regarded the American position, as expressed to me by President Clinton, the tone of the conversation and the language used as being more positive than had been some of the assessments of that were made. I think some of the reporting of the Defence Secretary’s remarks may have been incomplete and in any event the situation is not that the United States has ruled out the contribution of troops. The situation is that they will support a multinational force in a tangible way. The extent of that commitment or the character of that tangibility, if I can put it that way, is still under discussion.
The President is well aware of the feeling of the Australian Government and the Australian people regarding American involvement in this operation. It was quite a constructive discussion and we agreed to talk again if necessary before he left the United States to go to Auckland. And if that doesn’t occur we’ll naturally have a further meeting to discuss the situation when we see each other at the APEC meeting in Auckland over the weekend.
I should also inform you that Federal Cabinet has decided that if it becomes necessary and as part of the final phase, that is the post-separation phase, any United Nations’ sanctioned peacekeeping operation, if they were required, could include up to 4,500 Australian personnel. The idea is that we would initially commit 2,000 and then after a period of time, as we move into the final phase, then we would be willing and able to increase that commitment to 4,500.
It’s fair to say that the situation on all of the information available to me today is, of course, still unacceptable, is still quite deplorable. It still remains the case that insufficient protection is being given by the responsible authorities to innocent people, however, there has been some stabilisation. I understand that the number of domestic refugees has been significantly reduced. I understand that a number of them, perhaps even up to half on some estimates, have left the compound and that, of course, has eased the situation within the compound. I do understand, from what I was told, that the compound is receiving adequate supplies of food and water and discussions are continuing about the situation. The air bridge provided by Australia remains open and we will naturally continue to provide all the assistance that we can to the UNAMET operation. And we would hope that any assistance that we do wish to provide and do provide will not in any way be hindered by the Indonesian authorities.
So, I think I can conclude by saying that whilst the situation remains very unsatisfactory and very difficult there has been some stabilisation today and some sign of slight improvement. I wouldn’t want to put it any more strongly than that. Certainly the advice I have directly from the UNAMET boss is that UNAMET is staying, albeit in a reduced form and that is the current intention. I expect over the course of the next 12 or 24 hours to have further discussions with the Secretary-General of the United Nations, who I understand was to have some further discussions with the Indonesian President some time today.
Are there any questions?
JOURNALIST:
Prime Minister, does the stabilisation meet your requirement of martial law bringing the situation under control within 48 hours?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, look, please in a situation like this except that I choose my words very carefully, when I say there has been some stabilisation I don’t mean any more than that. Of course I only mean that. I don’t regard the situation and can’t on the information available to me regard the situation as in any way satisfying the requirements that I have been speaking about publicly. It remains our position…our objective is to for the Indonesian authorities to do their job. They still have a distance to go before that is achieved and if that can’t be done well, we would like to see a peacekeeping force inserted into the situation. All I am saying is that there is some evidence of the stabilisation. I think it’s very important that we, all of us, you included, choose your words and your comment very carefully because we are dealing with a very delicate situation. We are dealing with a situation that involves the lives of people and also we are dealing with a situation that involves a very important international relationship between Australia and our nearest neighbour. So all I am saying is that there has been some stabilisation and we would naturally hope that that be improved but we are not really in the business of saying, well look, problem solved. Please, I am not saying that for a moment. Yes Dennis.
JOURNALIST:
Is there any indication for change of attitude from the Indonesian parties in relation to a peacekeeping force and in contact with President Habibie?
PRIME MINISTER:
I have not had any contact with the President on that. I don’t have anything to add to the general understanding on that subject at this stage.
JOURNALIST:
[Inaudible] the Chinese President regarding the situation in East Timor and did he indicate to you China’s position regarding a peacekeeping force?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I thought the interpretation of what the Chinese President said yesterday was, how shall I put it, could not be substantiated by what he said. I was surprised at the interpretation. I thought his response yesterday was very non-committal. I, in the private discussion with the President, I explained our position and he did not in any way express a concern about or objection to. And I understand that there has been some indication given to our representative at the United Nations that the Chinese might not necessarily exercise a veto in relation to any Security Council vote. So I think some of the interpretations placed on President Jiang Zemin’s remarks last night by some of the media here were not soundly based. I can only report to you what happened. You saw his public answer, I can tell you privately. I told you what our position was and what our attitude was and he offered no criticism indeed he offered no comment at all. We simply passed onto another subject. So in those circumstances I don’t think it can be said that he has a position of definite opposition.
JOURNALIST:
[Inaudible]
PRIME MINISTER:
I beg your pardon.
JOURNALIST:
[Inaudible]
PRIME MINISTER:
I think that will be a mixture of nations but you perhaps should talk to the…
JOURNALIST:
[Inaudible] local UN staff.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, look, I am not, I mean, I am just reporting on a discussion I had and I don’t purport to know the mind of Mr Martin on everything. But I gather the impression that it would just be a scaled down version of what had previously been operating.
JOURNALIST:
[Inaudible] on troops…2000…[inaudible] 4,500…
PRIME MINISTER:
If needed later on, yes. The additional 2,500 if needed later on. But let me stress again that all the talk I indulge in in relation to Australian forces is conditional on those three things. That you need a United Nations mandate, you need Indonesian consent and you need a reasonable level of participation by appropriate countries.
JOURNALIST:
What kind of pressure would be applied on Indonesia [inaudible] considering….
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, it’s never possible to, sort of, definitively say what is enough pressure or what further pressure might be. Our objective remains is to use all appropriate pressure to bring about the things I said a moment ago were necessary. And I am not going to try and say what is the end of that pressure or whether enough pressure has been applied. All I say is that we continue to apply pressure and we continue to encourage other countries to do likewise.
JOURNALIST:
Sir, there’s been some reporting that…
PRIME MINISTER:
Where are you from?
JOURNALIST:
The Australian. There’s been some reporting that Australian troops [inaudible] tomorrow for [inaudible] for UNAMET. [Inaudible] overtaken by their decision to stay on indefinitely?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, there are a lot of reports swirling around and I don’t comment on all of them.
JOURNALIST:
Are you optimistic the Indonesians will finally allow a peacekeeping force into [inaudible]…
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I am not going to express a view either way on that. I am not, I am not going to express a view. I am certainly not saying I am optimistic but in this situation you don’t rule anything in or out. Look, please, I can only…I am trying to deal in facts and reasonable possibilities. I think once you start getting into asking me whether I am optimistic or pessimistic and so forth a wrong interpretation can be given on my response. All I can say is that there has been some stabilisation, small stabilisation. I don’t think you should write that too hard and I don’t think you should take it to mean any more than what I have just said.
JOURNALIST:
Did President Clinton express any opinion about who should lead a UN peacekeeping force?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, he didn’t. I therefore would assume that he accepts the judgement of the United Nations on that which is that Australia should lead it and that, is in our view, appropriate.
JOURNALIST:
Prime Minister, is it still the view of the Australian Government [inaudible] and the Indonesian Government are not determined to overturn the result altogether of the East Timor ballot?
PRIME MINISTER:
Greg, the mail on that is mixed. I was told of some comments before I came into this news conference of the leader of the military faction in the Indonesian Assembly and he was making utterances to the effect that it wasn’t worth the effort to hang onto East Timor. And I think he was also talking about the possibility of the accountability speech being brought forward which you as a student of Indonesian affairs would know has particular ramifications and implications. It’s very mixed. I find it hard to believe that cool reflection by people in Indonesia would cause them to do other than want to ultimately accept the result of the ballot. And certainly when the ballot was first held the President said that he accepted it. But it is also true, as you know, that the President was ahead of opinion in Jakarta in allowing the ballot to take place. And I say again that he deserves a lot of credit for having done that. And it is ironic that in all that has happened the credit that is due to him as a consequence is not being extended. I think it’s very hard to be definite. Different people have different views. I don’t think it’s possible to speak of a unified TNI Indonesian defence view. It is probably disparate and disaggregated. There are probably some people who have one view and others who have a different view.
JOURNALIST:
You said that our security treaty with Indonesia was virtually useless or seems useless at this point, how would you describe the relationship as a whole?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the relationship is obviously under strain, of course it is. But, no, well, once again, you never use absolutes in a situation like this because changes in personnel at the top, changes in governments, passage of time, can alter a relationship. Obviously it’s under strain at the present time but there are some enduring characteristics about the relationship that mean that with the passage of time and perhaps some change of personnel the situation will be different. But we have to deal in present day realities. We have no argument with the people of Indonesia and I say to the people of Indonesia and the Government of Indonesia that we continue to seek a close and productive relationship but it has to be on the basis that if we have a difficulty with something then we have a right to give expression to that difficulty, and we have a right to act in relation to that difficulty. I don’t think anybody can say that we haven’t tried to be understanding of the Indonesian position. We’ve been very understanding of the Indonesian position. But we’ve had a ballot in East Timor. It was supervised by the United Nations. Everybody says it was open and clean. The President said he would accept it and it was a general feeling around the world that it ought to be accepted. I think our reaction is perfectly natural and perfectly normal, and nothing more indeed than what the Australian people would have expected. Now we don’t want an ongoing argument but as I said last night – it’s more important to do the right thing than to preserve a relationship at any cost. And we can’t do that and we are trying to balance the long term interests this country has in a stable relationship with Indonesia against our clear duty to the people of East Timor, our clear obligation to the things that we believe in as a nation to argue that full faith and credit and expression should be given to the result of that ballot.
JOURNALIST:
Is the government considering sanctions?
PRIME MINISTER:
In a word at the moment no, but also in another word, they’re very much on the table. So I don’t rule something like that out. But at the moment the focus is on what I’ve talked of.
JOURNALIST:
Are the consul staff remaining in the compound in Dili and how can the government ensure that food and water get into the compound vicinity?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well as of this morning water and food was coming through from local sources apparently without difficulty. The Australian Government could ensure that it got through by flying supplies in. We would require the cooperation or the acquiescence of the Indonesian authorities once those supplies reached the airport.
JOURNALIST:
And how much cooperation…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there’s not been any need to find that out at the moment because it’s still available locally.
JOURNALIST:
Do you know if they are safe and where they have gone?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well no, I can’t answer either of those questions. I don’t think anybody from here can do that. I don’t know the answer to that question. We have no way of finding that out.
JOURNALIST:
You mentioned earlier of a possible commitment of 4,500 Australians. Have you got a similar commitment from New Zealand?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well New Zealand has made a commitment of some hundreds.
JOURNALIST:
If the situation doesn’t….
PRIME MINISTER:
Well what I said was there appears to have been some stabilisation. I did not say I don’t think that it has improved or continued to improve. I mean, all I’m saying is there appears to have been some stabilization.
JOURNALIST:
If the UN ultimately decided it had to pull out, would Australia assist in an evacuation of locally employed…..
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it has always been our intention to help in relation to that.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] to come to Australia?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well obviously they’re being evacuated to Darwin. Of course. But at this moment the UNAMET presence is being maintained.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible] So these reports from…
PRIME MINISTER:
Reports from where?
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible].. that Australian consulate staff….
PRIME MINISTER:
Look I don’t know anything about that.
JOURNALIST:
The UN says it has confirmed the massacre indicates that …. 100 people that’s …and priests and nuns. Are you aware of this?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am aware of those reports and I am aware of that comment. I’m not directly aware of the circumstances. If that is true than that is an appalling event and it adds weight to the sense of international concern and the sense of concern that is felt within Australia. I mean nobody’s pretending that ugly things aren’t occurring in East Timor. It’s a question of what we can sensibly try and do as a nation of 19 million people close by, in cooperation with other countries, always in cooperation with other countries, and under the general benediction of the United Nations. It’s a question of what we can sensibly try and do. I mean I know that it’s a terrible situation, quite appalling. And atrocities have occurred. We know that. Now I’ve never pretended otherwise. It’s a question of what we can effectively do. I know everybody wants to do something and that’s a very natural laudable human reaction. But it’s a question of what is a sensible, achievable, relatively safe response because I have responsibilities to the lives of Australian servicemen and women and I’m not going to lightly commit them to a disproportionately unsafe situation.
JOURNALIST:
Has General Wiranto answered the phone yet…?
PRIME MINISTER:
I’m not aware of any contact between Mr Moore and him no.
JOURNALIST:
.. has there been any contact with the Australian government with companies in relation to possible sanctions?
PRIME MINISTER:
Not that I’m aware of no, no. Look everything is on the table but I answered a question on that a moment ago and that is we are not planning anything right now in relation to that. But everything’s on the table.
JOURNALIST:
The ordinary Australian public are now angry about what is going on. What’s your advice? There’s all sorts of ideas about trade embargoes, and union bans and so on. What’s a sensible response from the Australian people that….
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there’s no one single response. I don’t presume to tell the Australian people how to react. I understand how they feel and what I’m trying to do as Prime Minister is to have a right, sensible, feeling response, but one that recognises that there’s nothing to be achieved by committing Australian men and women to unreasonable and disproportionate risk and danger. We are willing to participate in a peacekeeping force. We’re willing to play a major role, we’re willing to lead it. We’re willing to make the commitments in the numbers that I’ve outlined. But we want United Nations’ approval, we want Indonesian acquiescence, and we want a reasonable degree of participation from appropriate countries. Now we’re making a lot of progress in relation to the last element. The United Nations will clearly give the blessing if it’s needed but thus far there is clear resistance being met in relation to the Indonesian position. Now the whole purpose of international argument and pressure is to persuade the Indonesians of the benefit for them as well as the benefit for others of them either getting the situation properly under control or standing aside and allowing others to do it. Now that is where we have been for some days and that is what I must focus on. The question of whether you can have a trade ban or whatever, I mean in the short term that’s not going to make one wit of difference to what we’re dealing with at the moment. I don’t rule out action on that front but right at the moment we think our efforts are best directed towards achieving progress in the areas that I’ve mentioned.
JOURNALIST:
How important is it that close neighbours like Malaysian and Thailand…..closer to the idea of joining….peacekeeping force.
PRIME MINISTER:
It would clearly be very helpful to have the involvement of countries like that. It is my understanding that from both sources there’ve been indications of support. How well that materialises we’ll know probably over the next few days. But bear in mind that we’re not dealing with a situation where we’re trying to assemble a police….peacekeeping force for injection into the situation in the next 24 or 48 hours. That’s just not feasible.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Howard, if the UNAMET compound needs to be evacuated would troops be….?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, I’m not going to deal in hypothetical situations. I’ve explained patiently my understanding and knowledge of the UNAMET position. I’m not going to go beyond that. I think we’ve had enough. I think you’ve done extremely well.
Thank you.