E&OE................................................................................................
SUBJECTS: Coastwatch, US style coastguard, voluntary student unionism,
GST legislation, Senator Meg Lees.
LIEBMANN:
Prime Minister, good morning to you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Steve.
LIEBMANN:
You say these new measures will send a strong message to the rest
of the world but with so much money involved in illegal immigration
these days, especially in China, do you think the messages a) are
going to be heard and b) will be heeded?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I do. Not only are we putting more resources in the way but we
are making it very clear that by sending immigration officers into
potential source countries that we have a capacity to seek out potential
waves of illegal immigration before they really start and prevention
is always better than cure. We've actually done very well over the
last few months where there's been an increased attempt to, sort of,
raid Australia with illegal immigrants. We have done extremely well
but we know that illegal immigration is on the increase all around
the world. Australia is very attractive. We are a terrific country
to come to anyway and on top of that there is a perception that some
of our laws allow people once they get a foothold here to tie up the
legal system for years. And if only we could persuade the Senate to
pass some legislation to stiffen that we'd send an even stronger message.
LIEBMANN:
And are you confident that overseas governments, especially the Chinese
Government, are going to cooperate with us?
LIEBMANN:
Yes. So far they've been very good. In fact the Chinese Government
has been very co-operative about returns of illegal immigrants. We
talk to them on a very detailed comprehensive basis and so far they
have taken a very understanding and a very co-operative view.
LIEBMANN:
Prime Minister, why did the Government reject calls or reported calls
for an American type national coastguard?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, America is not Australia. America has a much larger population
than Australia although our coastline is comparable. We actually think
that the way we've organised it is just as effective. You have got
to bear in mind that with all of the coastguard and everything the
Americans have they still have a lot of illegal immigration. There
was a well-publicised case a few years ago of people getting into
the Hudson River in New York. So no country can guarantee there will
never be illegal immigrants coming in. I think there is always a mistake
in this country to just lamely ape the Yanks no matter what the issue
is. You have got to look at the Australian situation and the Australian
circumstance.
LIEBMANN:
And in looking....
PRIME MINISTER:
I can't hear you, Steve, I have lost sound. [Commercial break]
LIEBMANN:
We are talking to the Prime Minister, John Howard, about the Government's
new initiatives to improve coastal surveillance in Australia. Prime
Minister, before we were rudely interrupted, you were talking about
looking at Australia's position and not following the United States
just as a matter of course. When you looked at Australia's position,
why not greater involvement for our defence forces?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we have because the new Director-General of coastal surveillance
will be a serving defence officer. And he will therefore be able to
even better co-ordinate the roles of our customs service, our Federal
Police and our defence services. And in the arrangements we have now
the Navy is involved and it'll continue to be involved and involved
quite heavily.
LIEBMANN:
And why not a single agency that combines, say, immigration, customs,
quarantine, the whole lot under one umbrella? Because one gets the
distinct impression that the fragmentation of authority in this particular
area has worked against us in the past?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we are effectively going to do that because we're bringing
it all under the control of this person who will come out of the defence
area. But we're not going to the expense of setting up yet another
agency because you can sometimes, by setting up yet another agency,
you can just create a new bureaucracy. But the existing agencies do
co-operate very well together. And I make the point again that we've
actually been very successful in deterring people and catching people
when they get here, very successful.
LIEBMANN:
So you haven't been concerned at a degree of bureaucratic rivalry
in this whole area?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think a lot of that's now gone. It may have existed a few years
ago but I'm satisfied that it's largely gone.
LIEBMANN:
Because the other thing, I mean, illegal boat arrivals are getting
all the headlines but, in fact, our airports are the major ports of
entry, if I can put it that way, for illegal immigrants, are they
not?
PRIME MINISTER:
That is true and that is one of the reasons why we're putting
such an emphasis on placing immigration officers, twelve of them,
in different source countries so that you'll be able to get it
at its source rather than respond to it when it happens.
LIEBMANN:
Okay, Prime Minister, just while I've got you there, a couple
of other matters. The appearance today of an advertisement in the
papers 35 prominent Australians including Cardinal Clancy the
Archbishop of Sydney and the high Court Judge, Gerard Brennan, calling
on the Senate to reject your Government's voluntary unionism
for university students legislation.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I haven't actually seen that advertisement but I don't
agree with them. And, of course, Sir Gerard Brennan is a former High
Court Judge. I think there's a very simple principle involved
in this and that is the right of people to join or not to join an
organisation. I cannot for the life of me understand people who believe
in civil liberties arguing passionately to force people to belong
to a union and that is what voluntary student unionism is about. It's
about giving students the choice and the right. And I think, once
again, you have an example of people not quite understanding that
a growing number of people of university age want the choice, they
want the option of joining or not joining a union. They don't
want to be told by the system that they must join something and must
make a contribution even though they may not choose to use the services.
I mean, there are plenty of examples in the past of where money has
been spent by university unions on political purposes clearly out
of step with the wishes of the majority of the people who've
made those contributions.
LIEBMANN:
Okay. Incidentally, you must be feeling pretty pleased with yourself
today. I mean, it looks like the GST legislation will go through the
Senate. You've got another section or a portion of Telstra that
is being sold off and I see this morning that you're also attracting
now the younger Australian voter.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I saw that. I don't get complacent about those things but
I do think increasing numbers of young Australians are attracted by
the fact that we are in favour of something, that we are doers. We
are endeavouring to reform and improve, rather than just bag and knock.
And I also think that the younger generation of Australians today
are people who don't want to be told to conform to a pattern.
Something like voluntary student unionism I think a lot of
the objection to voluntary student unionism is coming not from people
of student age but from people of a much older age who have a different
paradigm, a different mindset, a different attitude and perhaps that
is illustrated in that advertisement that you referred to.
LIEBMANN:
And Meg Lees looks like she's going to stay as Leader of the
Democrats. You'd be pleased with that, wouldn't you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that's a matter for them but I repeat, I found her a very
honourable, decent person to deal with and naturally I'm pleased
that we're on the brink, after a quarter of a century, of getting
fundamental tax reform in this country. When that legislation finally
passes the House of Representatives in the next few days and becomes
law it will be a great moment for the cause of economic reform in
this country. For 25 years political parties and Prime Ministers and
Opposition Leaders have striven for this day and at long last it's
within reach. And it's a great moment for the economic security
of Australia, forget about its party political impact.
LIEBMANN:
Nice to talk with you again. Thanks for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thanks, Steve.
[ends]