E&OE...................................................................................................
MUNRO:
Prime Minister, thanks for your time. How disturbed are you by this
latest spate of shootings and deaths across Australia?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, look any person is, not just the Prime Minister, but the whole
of the Australian community is always shocked and I suppose the thing
that shocks me most and most Australians are the apparent triviality
of a couple of the events. I mean, to murder somebody over an argument
about the heating of a Chiko roll, I mean, it's just appalling.
MUNRO:
Does it demonstrate a weakness in our new gun laws?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think you can necessarily draw that conclusion. The new
gun laws were only agreed to a couple of years ago and the buy back
was only completed in the latter part of last year. So, it's
too early to make a judgement as to whether the new national gun laws
are effective. I believe they are but you will need to wait a period
of a number of years and to observe the trends over that period of
time before you can make a judgement.
MUNRO:
Is that because you might be concerned that the States are slowly
but surely watering down the gun laws through adjustments and fine-tuning?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, there are a couple of areas where changes have been made but
I think watering down is too strong a description although I make
it very clear on your programme that we will use any power at our
disposal to prevent any serious watering down of those laws. And we
have, in fact, withheld some compensation payments to at least one
of the States because they have diverged slightly from the rules that
were agreed to at the National Police Ministers' Conference following
Port Arthur. I mean, we are treading on Constitutional egg shells
in a sense on this because we don't have any direct power. But
there is a lot of community support for the toughest gun laws possible,
however, we have got to keep it in proportion. Appalling though the
events of the last few days have been, our murder rate is not as bad
as a lot of other countries, (inaudible).. but any murder is one too
many and any loss of life is appalling and distresses everybody and
the feeling of vulnerability that people have is very natural.
MUNRO:
Of course guns and drugs often go hand in hand as you know. Is it
important to separate them as issues?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, in a way it is. I think the only way you can tackle the drug
problem is on three levels. I think you have to have tough law enforcement.
No society will accept the idea of just saying it's too hard
therefore we give in. I mean, that is basically what some people are
saying.
MUNRO:
Including zero tolerance?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, zero tolerance is a generic term which has grown out of some
police practices in New York. I think it's important to have
a look at what's happened there. I mean, New York had a horrific
reputation for crime 20 years ago but over the last few years they
have been very successful in getting that horrific rate down to more
manageable levels. So if you are interested in, sort of, crime prevention
generally it's worth having a look at. But when I talk about
zero tolerance in relation to drugs I mean you shouldn't tolerate
them in schools and you shouldn't tolerate the dealers, you don't
give them any tolerance. You certainly understand that people who
are addicted have a problem. And I think you have got to have three
things, you have got to have law enforcement, you have got to have
education and that really starts in the home with every parent telling
their children about the dangers of drugs, and you have also got to
have effective rehabilitation programmes. And one of the things that
we have done at a federal level for the first time in a big way is
to make a lot of money available over the last year or so for rehabilitation
programmes.
MUNRO:
You accept that heroin is, as some people said, awash in Australia?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, you have got to, once again, keep it in proportion. Two per
cent of the population have used heroin. Now, that is two per cent
too much. But you have also got to keep a sense of proportion. I think
awash is a melodramatic word. The rate of heroin....of deaths from
heroin overdoses has certainly gone up.
MUNRO:
600 deaths, I think, in 1997.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, in 1997. It has certainly gone up on what it was 10 years ago.
It is certainly a more serious problem than what it was and nobody
has the complete answer. I don't have the complete answer and
it has got to be a co-operative effort. I mean, the Prime Minister
can't solve it on his own and I am very happy to work with any
State Premier of any political description, it's not a party
political issue. I am not interested in having a slanging match with
any Premier about who has got the best idea. I am very interested
in talking with to Premiers and the Chief Ministers at the Premiers'
Conference in April and we will do our level best with resources.
We have already committed a lot more, I mean, no national government
has spent as much as we have on some of these aspects and that's
not a criticism of the former Labor Government. And I am interested
in some of the comments Mr Beazley has made about the heroin trial
in the last couple of days.
MUNRO:
Is there any way you would reconsider a heroin trial?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, not on the evidence that's available to me. I mean, the...look,
the evidence of heroin trials overseas at very best is quite ambiguous
and I would want to be persuaded that there were benefits and because
there are clear detriments in going down the path of the heroin trial
in terms of the signal you send to the community. Because some argue
that once you go down the path of a heroin trial, you know, if it
quote "works well" then the next step is towards legitimisation.
MUNRO:
I mean no disrespect [inaudible], but are you more concerned with
the moral implication of regulating heroin than perhaps saving all
the deaths?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I am not. I am far more interested in getting rid of the drug
scourge because what drugs do is to take away the control that people
have over their own lives, particularly young people. And that concerns
me far more than the potential of death and depravation of the quality
of life, particularly for young people. It concerns me far more than
some abstract moral theory. That's not a disrespectful question,
it's a fair question and I am glad you asked it. I am not on
some kind of personal moral crusade on this, I am just as, I hope,
an ordinary, intelligent human being unconvinced that in the face
of this problem the way to go is to have a heroin trial. Now, I am
going to talk to the Director of the FBI on Friday. Now, I have been
criticised by some people for doing that but you know that in the
last 20 years there has been a 50 per cent reduction in drug use in
the United States. There's been a 40 per cent reduction in drug
related deaths since 1992 and there's been a 70 per cent reduction
in cocaine use since 1985. Now, the Americans have certainly not adopted
a soft approach to the drug problem. They have adopted a very tough
approach but they have also had education, they have also had rehabilitation
programmes. Now, I am not saying they're perfect but I would
want to be persuaded of benefit before I would reconsider my position
and I haven't been persuaded of that. And in any event the heroin
trial thing, in a sense, is a bit of a diversion because even those
people who support it don't claim for a moment that it's,
sort of, the answer to the problem.
MUNRO:
The New South Wales Director of Public Prosecutions, just finally,
today said that we can't beat the drug users and that 50 years
of prohibition hasn't worked. Victorian Premier Jeff Kennett
says a refusal to consider any new way is a head in the sand approach.
What do you say to that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, my response to that is perhaps to have a look at some of the
experience in the United States. Those figures that I quoted...and
this is the country which is typically seen as having the biggest
drug problem in the world. Now, they haven't, apparently haven't
thrown up their hands and I just don't, I don't agree with
what Mr Cowdery has said nor I note does Mr Carr.
MUNRO:
Okay. Mr Howard, thank you very much for your time, we appreciate
you coming in.
[ends]