Subjects: Lamb tariffs; Davis Cup; Productivity
Commission report into gambling - poker machines, gambling advertisements;
Australia's health system - Medicare, State Premiers; return of Kosovo
refugees; Unemployment rates - Treasury figures; Australia's Banks
- Radio talk show hosts & pecuniary interests; Sydney-centrism
- Jeff Kennett;
E&OE............
MITCHELL:
Mr Howard, welcome home.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good day, how are you Neil?
MITCHELL:
I'm well thank you. At least we gave the Yanks one back for the lamb
in the Davis Cup defeat.
PRIME MINISTER:
It was great, I saw the first day and Hewitt and Rafter were fantastic
and the surrounds of thousands of cheering Americans made me more
energetic in my support.
MITCHELL:
Tell me, did you get a bit annoyed when Bill Clinton left you standing
out in the rain all alone for a press conference?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I didn't expect that he'd go to that news conference because he'd
have been on a hiding to nothing. The Australian press would have
peppered him with a whole lot of questions about lamb. I didn't expect
that he would join me. I asked him to but I didn't think he would.
Look the Americans did us in the eye over lamb and we made it very
plain that we were very unhappy. It was a domestic political consideration
and America is so big and strong and when it decides that it's going
to do something for a domestic political reason it really rolls over
everybody.
MITCHELL:
How did you get on with him, OK?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh I get on with him quite well but I disagreed with him on this issue.
I think he's misunderstood just how strong is the feeling in Australia,
but at the end of the day he owed people domestically and that's why
he took the decision that he did, I mean there's no point in beating
about the bush. It's a lousy decision; it's quite indefensible on
trade grounds. It was induced entirely by domestic political considerations.
MITCHELL:
But we won - we beat them in the Davis Cup.
PRIME MINISTER:
We did beat them in the David Cup and the other thing I should say
is that our trade to America overall rose by thirty four per cent
in 1998, but that is cold comfort to our very efficient lamb producers.
MITCHELL:
Now, poker machines. The Premier here has declared a cap of 27,500
in Victoria, is that still too many?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think we have far too many poker machines in Australia. I
don't have an overnight solution but .
MITCHELL:
Do you think Victoria has too many?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Australia has too many, therefore that includes Victoria, of
course it does. I mean everybody's in the same boat on this, well
look, but really.
MITCHELL:
But New South Wales has a hell of a lot more..
PRIME MINISTER:
..I'm the Prime Minister of the whole country, I do not want to get
- much as all as the Premier keeps throwing in this nonsense about
Sydney-centricity - I don't want to get into a slanging match between
Sydney and Melbourne or New South Wales and Victoria on this issue.
It is a broad national problem and I'm not particularly proud of the
fact that Australia has, with a population of just under 19 million
people, has 21 per cent of the world's poker machines. I mean I'm
proud of some of our records in most fields, but that is something
of which I'm quite ashamed.
MITCHELL:
So you'd like to see them reduced across the board.
PRIME MINISTER:
I would like, I don't know how it's done, but I think we gamble too
much and that does cause social problems, and that may not be a popular
thing to say, but it happens to be true and just as political figures
are meant to take leads in relation to other social ills such as excessive
drinking and too much smoking, then obviously there is a concern in
this area. Now I don't have the solution to it at my fingertips.
MITCHELL:
Well what about the suggestion that came up yesterday about a restriction
on gambling advertisers?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, there's obviously something in that and I notice that Jeff Kennett
has had some comments to make about that and that's fine.
MITCHELL:
It's pretty enticing stuff isn't it? I mean that's the nature of advertising.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, of course, of course it is. Now we as a community have resolved
to take very strong action in relation to advertising for cigarettes,
and nobody seems to object to that as a mode of government and community
intervention, and cigarette companies may, and I understand for commercial
reasons why they might do it, but the rest of the community supports
it, and that has over time made a difference. We're probably in advance
of many other countries with which we are normally compared in that
area. Now..
MITCHELL:
So you think we should look at the (inaudible).
PRIME MINISTER:
I think we have to, I think the first thing to do is to recognise
that there is now indisputable evidence that some people's lives are
ruined and destroyed and there's a lot of human misery inflicted on
them and their families by excessive gambling. Now I don't care about
people who can afford to gamble, I don't care for a moment about people
who gamble in moderation. I do not want wowser-like to prohibit gambling
altogether, that's not my argument at all, but you would be absolutely
insensitive to reality if you didn't accept that this is a big social
problem for some people. It's a social problem for the community and
we have to find, co-operatively, a way of addressing it. Now that's
what I'm saying, I don't pretend for a moment that I have the solutions
at my fingertips.
MITCHELL:
Well restricting advertising is one way, another area might be to
advertise more about the dangers of gambling.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that is another way.
MITCHELL:
Could the Federal Government get - the States are in this difficult
position where they probably don't want to advertise all that much
about the dangers because they rely so much on the income.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it's something for which they have a primary responsibility,
but I'm not saying that in a political sense of trying to fix them
with the only responsibility. But it is of course primarily a matter
within their regulatory remit and the Premier made that observation
yesterday. Now that doesn't mean to say that the Federal Government
doesn't have role, it doesn't mean to say that we shouldn't have a
view, in fact this Productivity Commission examination which has really
laid bare in a very stark and political way the facts about gambling
in Australia was initiated by the Federal Government.
MITCHELL:
And you copped a bit of stick for it too.
PRIME MINISTER:
We did, and I don't apologise for having initiated it. I think we've
done the community a service in revealing in quite a clinical fashion
the extent of the problem. You see in the past, most of the people
who talked about gambling tended to come from churches or the welfare
sector and people said : oh well they're just being, you know, do-gooders,
they're being wowsers, they're being this that and the other. Now
what you've got, on top of that you've now got the 'pointy heads'
if you like, coming to the same conclusion, and that's a fairly significant
alliance and I don't think it can be and I don't think it should be
ignored and it confirms the view that a number of us had and I think
the people in the community have now - it's not something that can
be fixed overnight and I'm not holding myself out as having any particular
capacity or any particular solutions but the responsibility of somebody
like myself is to recognise the social problem, express a point of
view about it and then work with relevant people to see what can sensibly
be done to ameliorate the problem.
MITCHELL:
And those are the sort of areas you'd look at are they?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they are some of the areas, but I don't at this stage want to
say, well I'm going to do this, this, this and this and not do that,
that and that.
MITCHELL:
What about the issue the States' reliance on gambling. Victoria in
particular, I mean fifteen per cent of the budget is gambling revenue.
Is that too much?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well let's not sort of drift into a headline on "Howard says
this or that about Victoria's revenue raising".
MITCHELL:
Well, yeah, but I mean if it comes back to you if the revenue drops
(inaudible).
PRIME MINISTER:
I know, but it's not just a revenue thing it is a social behavioural
thing and the devastation that is caused for some people by excessive
gambling upsets me a lot and it should upset the whole community and
just as we seek to help people who've got a drug problem then we ought
to help people who've got a gambling problem.
MITCHELL:
Do you think it's in the same sort of category? Well the same sort
of level, the same sort of extent? The drug problem gets a lot of
attention.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the number of, the total number of heroin users in Australia
is I understand two per cent and the people who have a profound social
problem from gambling according to the Productivity Commission report
is something in the order of two to two-and-a- half per cent. So I
mean they are different issues and they have to be tackled in different
ways, but the point I'm simply making is that where you have a social
problem, governments have some responsibility to do what they can
to tackle it. Now I don't want to raise expectations that I've got
a solution but it's not good enough for somebody in my position just
to walk away and say oh well, people gamble out of choice and that's
it. People who'd . if you'd have said that about smoking thirty years
ago you would never have done anything to try and reduce the incidence,
particularly amongst young men and women.
MITCHELL:
We'll take calls for the Prime Minister in a moment, 9696 1278, I
wanted to ask you about the health meeting on today Mr Howard. All
the States including your own members of your own political persuasion
are saying Medicare's badly broken, it's not working. You still stand
by it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't agree with them. I think there are defects in Australia's
health system but it's better than any in the world. And I'd rather
get a - a battler is better getting sick in Brunswick than the Bronx
and the reality is that this country's health system -for all its
flaws - is better than most and we stand by the Medicare system. That
doesn't mean to say it can't be improved, but it doesn't mean to say
that there are significant flaws, but..
MITCHELL:
Well there are all these ideas coming up for improvement, they're
pretty dramatic.
PRIME MINISTER:
They're also very confusing and very contradictory. If you said to
me as of sixteen minutes to nine, now what is the attitude of the
State Governments, well I wouldn't really know because they are very
different. Now I want to, I'm always ready and happy to talk to State
Premiers, but I don't think it helps on an issue as important as this
for the ad-hoc generation of crisis headlines every few months. Over
the last fifteen months the Federal Government has made three very
important announcements for health, to strengthen our health system.
We've increased dramatically the funding for the States by three per
cent in real terms each year over five years. We've put $1.5 billion
or more into incentives for private health insurance and we have also
promised in the last Federal Budget to double spending on health and
medical research in this country.
MITCHELL:
But the states really are effectively saying that's all wasted because
it's not working. They're saying...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, they're wrong in saying that. Nobody could possibly and seriously
argue that doubling expenditure on health and medical research in
this country is wasted. I mean I have had from every one of the great
medical institutes in Australia, particularly from those in Melbourne
which of course is in a sense the national centre, the national capital
of medical research in Australia and it has some world famous institutes.
I've had nothing but total support and praise for the Government's
commitment in that area.
MITCHELL:
If it is run down, the States run it down, I mean I've seen argument
from your Federal Minister that States have cut so much out of it.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that is true in a number of cases, yes, that is true. Now look
we don't like in a sense making those points but you have to understand
that no self respective federal government is going to sit by and
allow itself every few months to become the punching bag for alleged
deficiencies in state health services. Now, I accept that not all
is well. I accept that there are flaws there are deficiencies, there
are areas where improvements can be made. But I do not believe it
is accurate, nor do I believe it is helpful for there to be a campaign
of crisis inducement as far as the atmosphere surrounding health delivery
in this country is concerned because there is a lot about our health
system that is working extremely well. We have marvellous doctors,
terrific nurses and some terrific public and private facilities. I
think we have to take the temperature out of the debate, we have to
try as far as possible to extract it from the cross fire of political
exchange at both the federal and state levels and sensibly discuss
areas where improvements can be made. I want to make it very clear
we are not going to dismantle Medicare.
MITCHELL:
That's what I was going to ask, there's no question of Medicare goes..
PRIME MINISTER:
There's no way we're going to dismantle Medicare. The Liberal party
at a federal level years ago had a different view about the operation
of Medicare. Before the change of Government in 1996 we made a very
careful examination of this and we committed ourselves in that campaign
to maintain Medicare. We said we'd seek to improve and strengthen
it and we didn't rule out changes that were consistent with the maintenance
of Medicare and we've made many..
MITCHELL:
What about the Medicare levy? Is that high enough?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we don't have any plan to raise it. I can give no other answer
than that.
MITCHELL:
We'll take a couple of quick calls, Merle hello, go ahead please.
CALLER:
Good morning Neil. I just wanted to make a quick comment about the
poker machines. They've been in NSW I think for anything up to 40
years.
PRIME MINISTER:
43 years.
CALLER:
Well there you are. I'm a constant visitor to NSW Sydney, my sister
was very much addicted, I got swept in there, I think they're very
boring. But I believe there's not enough responsibility put on the
individual, no matter who it is in whatever walk of life. We always
seem to want to blame somebody else or something else but I think
that it is an individual choice and I mix with a lot of people and
nobody goes playing poker machines.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, well I think you're mad to play poker machines.
MITCHELL:
Ever played one?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think once about 30 years ago. I think they are boring and I can't
understand how anybody would want to..I mean I am not a gambler but
I don't seek to impose that view on other people.
MITCHELL:
Do you think you are a wowser Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I don't but I am a concerned citizen about the human misery that's
inflicted on some people.
MITCHELL:
Brian, go ahead please.
CALLER:
Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity to speak to you Mr Howard. You
referred to poker machines or gambling as a social problem.
PRIME MINISTER:
Excessive gambling.
CALLER:
Yeah, I see it as an economic problem especially for small business
because it's inarguable that every dollar that goes through a poker
machine is a dollar out of a retailers till and from personal experience
I've seen many many small businesses going under and it can be attributed
only to poker machines.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I know that's a widely held view and I guess intuitively I would
have held that view too although I'm bound to say in the interest
of objectivity that the Productivity Commission's report was not as
strong in finding that as you and I might have suspected. Now they
acknowledge that there was some impact but they weren't as strong
in that area as you and I might have expected but my intuition has
been and I guess is still the same as yours.
MITCHELL:
Thanks Brian. Thank you for calling, we'll take a quick break and
come back with more with the Prime Minister in a moment.
The Prime Minister is on the line from Newcastle. Mr Howard, some
of the first Kosovo refugees leave the country today. I'm told 1,000,
as many as 1,000 want to stay permanently. Is there a chance they'll
be allowed to stay.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I guess we'll sort of look sensibly as far as we can at each
case. The general view was taken when we accepted them that they were
here for temporary safe haven purposes and we're reluctant to alter
that but in all of these things we'll try and behave in a sensitive
sensible fashion.
MITCHELL:
So it's a possibility?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well yes but I