E&OE……………………………………………………………………………………….
SATTLER:
Prime Minister, good morning, welcome to the programme.
PRIME MINISTER:
It’s very nice to be with you again, Howard.
SATTLER:
And what went wrong then?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, politics come and go and I never get too excited at a surge in approval ratings any more than I get too depressed if they come back a little bit. I think what we were reminded again by the result of the Victorian election is that modern election campaigns really do resolve the outcome of elections far more than they used to. And the fact that you’re a long way ahead in the polls a couple of years before an election means absolutely nothing. Now, you raise two issues – one of them concerning education. The Government has made it perfectly clear, we’re not altering the present system. We’re going to stick to HECS. We’re not introducing $100,000 fees, indeed, nobody was ever proposing that and that was a Labor Party fib to suggest that Dr Kemp was proposing that. He wasn’t.
SATTLER:
What was he proposing?
PRIME MINISTER:
He put forward a number of options. He expressed a preference for one. The Government rejected that and the situation remains as it is. There are a number of changes consistent with the present system such as giving the universities an incentive through an offer of more money to free up their industrial relations system. Because I do think academics are not as well paid as they might be but you can’t increase their pay unless you break down some of the rigidities of the industrial relations system in universities. Things like that, but they are all consistent with maintaining the present system of funded places at universities. The HECS charge, which I think is very fair because no country can afford completely free university tuition and a system that allows universities to have a certain number of full fee paying students over and above their funded places. Now…
SATTLER:
Yeah, but our students here apparently don’t trust what you’re saying because they’re still going to demonstrate…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well…but they demonstrate when nothing’s happening some of them.
SATTLER:
They don’t demonstrate much these days.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, some of them do. I mean, I’ve had demonstrations outside my office on a regular basis since I’ve been Prime Minister. I mean, it’s part and parcel…
SATTLER:
So they’re wasting their time…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, they are wasting their time because we’re not going to do the things that our critics are saying that we’re going to do. They really are wasting their time and they should go back to their studies, particularly at this time of the year when most students, both at school and at university, are doing exams.
SATTLER:
All right, well, what about this, what looks like a tax rort involving radiology machines?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, what has happened – and I have to choose my words carefully because it’s still under investigation and people have rights – what has happened is that it would appear that a number of people who bought these expensive radiology machines have backdated the contracts so as to get the benefit of a Medicare payment for the treatment of a patient with these machines.
SATTLER:
Are you saying they didn’t buy them before the budget?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the suggestion is that some of them didn’t. So that is being investigated. And what happened was that the Minister had discussions about the general area. He did not, according to all the information I have, communicate the Government’s decision. According to the information I have there has been no leak. There has been no evidence presented of a leak. The Opposition has been alleging a leak but so far they haven’t provided any evidence of a leak.
SATTLER:
So it’s just a coincidence, is it, that a couple of…
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, what is being investigated is the possibility that some people have tried to represent to the Health Insurance Commission that they actually contracted to buy the machines before the date when eligibility for the Medicare subsidy would no longer be available.
SATTLER:
The Auditor-General’s inquiry is pretty restricted, isn’t it?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, well, it’s not restricted as to proper process. Look, we’re not trying to hide anything in this. We’re having an inquiry by the Health Insurance Commission. And, once again, according to it, as told to the Minister, it sent something like, I think, 13 or 16 cases are likely to go the Director of Public Prosecutions. Dr Wooldridge…
SATTLER:
That’s serious stuff, isn’t it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, it is very – I mean, we are acting and Dr Wooldridge has put a regulation through which denies the benefit way back to February of last year. So we are taking all the necessary action to protect the revenue. He’s having investigations done. There’s an intimation that some of the cases are going off to the Director of Public Prosecutions. And he’s also said that when the Health Insurance Commission has finished its investigation he will send all of that to the Attorney-General and the Australian Government Solicitor and seek advice as to whether any further action is needed.
SATTLER:
Does it worry you that a couple of people allegedly involved were fundraisers for Dr Wooldridge?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that’s been denied. I mean, the two people whose names were used in Parliament by the Opposition have, I understand, denied having been involved in raising funds for Dr Wooldridge. I mean, that is just, according to what I’ve been told, absolutely, plain, dumb wrong.
SATTLER:
All right, but these two issues have got the Opposition back in the game, haven’t they?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, these sort of issues come and go, Howard. I mean, it’s a question of whether they have any long-term resonance with the electorate. Now, in the case of the university fees we’re not going to make changes. Now, I’ve made that clear. I’m sorry the document was leaked but it was leaked and that happens. It’s regrettable. But that wasn’t through any cleverness of the Opposition. I mean, if you get handed a Cabinet submission you’re a pretty poor Opposition if you can’t make some use of it.
SATTLER:
You used to.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, all Oppositions occasionally get documents but don’t anybody think that this was clever tactics by the Opposition. But, look, that issue is dead and buried. It’s not going to happen, okay.
SATTLER:
Let’s talk about an issue that’s very alive today. Two days ago you seemed to give a clear endorsement to Megawati Sukana Putri to be Indonesia’s new President. You said she should get the job.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, completely wrong, I didn’t.
SATTLER:
Didn’t you?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I did not. I’ve, in fact, gone through my transcripts.
SATTLER:
What did you say about it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I’ll tell you what I said, I said on the Channel Nine Today Show yesterday, I said: "I’ve often said in the past that relations, that it’s got to be built on mutual respect, that’s the relationship between Australia and Indonesia. They don’t give us advice as to who our leader should be. I’m not going to give them advice as to who theirs should be". All I said in that interview and in an interview on Alan Jones and in an interview on AM yesterday morning was to state the obvious and that is that Megawati because her party had the largest number of seats in the Parliament had popular support. Now, that was stating the obvious. But I said in that interview on the Today Show that I am not going to give advice. I said on the Alan Jones programme "well it’s for Indonesia to decide who its President should be but she got the highest vote and her party commands the most seats".
SATTLER:
Anyway, she didn’t get the job.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, I know but, yes, look of course she didn’t, of course she didn’t. But this lie that Laurie Brereton is putting around that in some way I advocated that she be elected is wrong. I didn’t. I stated the obvious. I said that her party had more seats, that’s true. But, I mean, anything for a, you know, for a jab at the Government. Anything for a cheap political…
SATTLER:
Well, that’s what oppositions do.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, sometimes there is a national interest that requires that they don’t do it. I mean, we all want good relations with Indonesia. Everybody was surprised at the outcome of the ballot, everybody.
SATTLER:
But how can you get good relations with a man who said back on only September the 4th, Indonesia should take a bold decision, let’s say by applying a diplomatic isolation on Australia. He doesn’t….
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, in politics as in diplomacy you learn to allow certain remarks to go by unremarked upon. A lot of people say a lot of things in public life in politics. Now that he is the President I am quite certain, and it was indicated through his spokesman this morning, I am quite certain that he wants good relations with Australia.
SATTLER:
Well, how are you going to move that along?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, to start with, you welcome his election. You indicate a willingness on the part…
SATTLER:
But that’s the diplomatic thing to do whoever gets elected.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, I know. Well, look, you are asking me the question. I mean, there’s a lot of diplomacy involved in all this and it can’t be achieved overnight. I mean, the first thing I have got to say about relations with Indonesia is that because of Timor there is an inevitable strain being put upon them through no fault of our own. We have done the right thing in East Timor and we’ll continue to do the right thing in East Timor. But over time I believe the relationship will improve and I believe that now that we have got the presidential ballot behind us and the Indonesian Parliament has voted to give East Timor its legal independence I think the relationship will gradually improve. Now, people should not…
SATTLER:
Are you going to seek an early meeting with him?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, I am not going to seek an early meeting. I am not going to seek any meeting at the moment. At an appropriate time that can be considered. But he hasn’t even got a Vice-President, he hasn’t chosen a Government. I think for Australia at the moment to be running around talking about early meetings is altogether too premature but in the fullness of time that is something that ought to be considered. But out of respect for him he’s got a big job ahead of him, he’s …
SATTLER:
He sure has.
PRIME MINISTER:
He’s obviously domestic and I just think for, you know, for people to be talking about early meetings at this stage is altogether too premature. In the fullness of time that can be considered but nobody should think that our relationship is going to improve overnight. But it certainly won’t be improved by Laurie Brereton taking cheap shots based on dishonest assertions.
SATTLER:
All right. The Prime Minister is with us and you can give him a call on the open line.
[Commercial break]
My guest over in our Canberra studios is Prime Minister John Howard. And Prime Minister we have got Helen on the line. Hello Helen.
CALLER:
Hello Howard, how are you?
SATTLER:
How are you going Helen? The Prime Minister is listening.
CALLER:
I was just curious [inaudible] that students should be getting back to the books rather than going out and protesting. I think most students are finding that they don’t have time to protest let alone study because of the extraordinary expense of studying these days. And I was wondering given the fact that it’s becoming increasingly necessary to have a tertiary education just to get a job, do you think that the Government should be putting more funding into public education rather than the students continuing having to foot an increasing bill?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think it’s fair that the students, if they can afford to do so, contribute something. And I think it’s fair that the rest of the community contribute something. That’s a question of having a balanced system. We cannot as a nation afford to have a completely free education system. Equally, it would be unfair on students to charge them the full cost of their courses. And what we have at the moment is a well-balanced system. Under HECS you are effectively allowed to defer your contribution until you are earning a reasonable level of income. You have an incentive to pay it up front if you can afford to do so and many thousands of students can through a combination of their own resources or part-time work they can afford to do that. But they have a choice and the Government, on behalf of the rest of the community, puts in the balance. Now, I think that’s a very fair system and that is the system we have at the moment and that is the system we are going to keep.
SATTLER:
Okay Helen.
CALLER:
Well, I guess that’s the best answer I am going to get.
SATTLER:
Are you protesting today?
CALLER:
Yes, I am. We are going outside Menzies House in Perth today to protest against these plans to…
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, there are no plans. There are no plans to alter the present fair, balanced, reasonable system where you are required to make some contribution and the community picks up the rest. And I think that’s fair and reasonable and we don’t intend to alter that system.
SATTLER:
All right, Helen, thanks very much for your call. Prime Minister, this will probably be the last chance that I have to interview you before the November 6th republican referendum. Have you changed your mind?
PRIME MINISTER:
No. I intend to vote to preserve the present system. It’s, in my view, a very effective workable system. We are a totally independent nation. The idea that this country lacks self-awareness or self-identity is an absurdity. And I don’t intend to change my position.
SATTLER:
Or at least 30 Coalition republicans have an….
PRIME MINISTER:
I am going to vote…
SATTLER:
They are absurd are they?
PRIME MINISTER:
I beg your pardon?
SATTLER:
Have an absurd notion do they?
PRIME MINISTER:
No. Look, this is a free vote. Now, come on Howard.
SATTLER:
No you said that it was absurd that we’re not totally independent. Well…
PRIME MINISTER:
No no no… to say we’re not totally independent. But not everybody who’s voting yes is necessarily arguing that we lack legal independence. In fact a lot of people I’ve spoken to on the republican side readily acknowledge that Australia is a completely independent country.
SATTLER:
How do you feel about some of those people saying that MPs are being threatened with their preselection?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well can I tell you in know nothing of that.
SATTLER:
What would you think if that…..
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I would not approve of it. But can I tell you I don’t know anything of it. I mean this is the oldest game in the book –to ask you deny something that doesn’t exist. Now I have not have had any member of Parliament come to me and say my preselection is being threatened because I’m supporting the republican side. I have not had any member…..
SATTLER:
…(inaudible)…
PRIME MINISTER:
No no, well just a minute. I mean you raised it. I mean what the Liberal Party has done on this issue is a very mature courageous thing. We’ve said to our members you have a free vote. Now I have never disguised my support for the present system. I told the Australian people where I stood before the 1996 election. I told them again before 1998. I’ve been utterly consistent. I have never used extravagant language in defence of the present system, or in criticism of those who want an alternative. But I have a quiet commitment to the present system because it is stable, strong and cohesive.
SATTLER:
Okay, you’ve told your Ministers that they’re not to debate the issue on air against each other. But it would appear from stories that have come out overnight that at least thirty of them are pretty furious, these are the republican ones, with the other side. With people like Tony Abbott and Nick Minchin. Are you going to be trying to keep the warring factions….?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think it is the common sense of people within our two parties on both sides will ensure that the system is handled very effectively. I actually think the whole debate is being conducted with an enormous amount of civility.
SATTLER:
Will you be telling them to cool it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, I’m not going to talk about the conversations I may or may not have with any of my colleagues on air.
SATTLER:
But you don’t want ..[inaudible].. in the ranks do you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, you know, you know what sort of question that is and you know that you’re not going to get the sort of answer you want. Bad luck mate. Try again.
SATTLER:
Shirley’s your next caller. Hello Shirley.
CALLER:
Hi. I’d like to speak to Mr Howard please.
SATTLER:
Yes, he’s listening.
CALLER:
Look, I’m really upset and really really angry. Yesterday I went to prepay my mum’s funeral and I was told that I had to pay $500 extra for the GST. Now how can you possibly charge people GST on a funeral? It’s terrible.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it is the case that under the proposal, because there are services involved, there will be a GST. But of course it will not be the 10%. It will be less than that because there are many indirect taxes under the present system that add to the cost of funeral services.
SATTLER:
Prime Minister, can we just ask this lady, is the $500 next to 10% Shirley?
CALLER:
Well it must be.
PRIME MINISTER:
No no, well hang on you see, Shirley to be fair to the Government, and I know people sometimes don’t ever want to do that no matter what the government is, but to be fair I’d need to know all of the details. I mean it may be that the company is merely anticipating the impact of the GST.
CALLER:
I have already had notices sent out…
PRIME MINISTER:
I understand that. I know that and I’m not disputing it for a moment. But in order to give a completely factual answer I’d need to know the total cost, I’d need to know…..
CALLER:
I can tell you that.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well what is the total cost?
CALLER:
An absolute basic funeral, and I’m talking about basic.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah but how much?
CALLER:
$5,000.
PRIME MINISTER:
$5,000.
CALLER:
Yes, and that’s just the [inaudible]. No cars, nothing.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well if you could provide me with….my office with all of the details.
SATTLER:
Yeah Shirley, care of Parliament House Canberra, Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes certainly, if you could do that. I’ll have it investigated. Now I acknowledge that because of the transitional arrangements in the GST legislation when these plan are entered into, it is the practice of some of the funeral directors to anticipate the GST and to add it to their bill. Now I’m disputing that and they entitled to do that, because I would make the observation that two or three things – that there are other offsets to the GST that cushion the cost of that and provide additional benefits. But as to whether it’s a reasonable additional charge on account of the GST is something that I have to have the details of and I can have it investigated. I’m not saying it’s not but it’s very difficult for me to say yes or no to that particular amount.
SATTLER:
We’ll have it sent to you Prime Minister. And thanks very much for joining us on the program today. Sorry I couldn’t get you to vote yes.
PRIME MINISTER:
That’s all right. I tell you what you should vote yes to the preamble.
SATTLER:
I was going to vote no for that.
PRIME MINISTER:
You mean to say you’re a yes/no voter?
SATTLER:
Yeah.
PRIME MINISTER:
Really. So you’re going to vote no to the preamble but you’re going to vote yes to a republic. Gee, I better have a talk to you.
SATTLER:
Well you see I’m an atheist.
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, I see. Well I respect your view, but why don’t you respect mine on this.
SATTLER:
I do of course. Thanks for your time and I’ll talk to you after the referendum.
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay.
SATTLER:
Thanks for joining us.
[ends]