Subjects: Republic referendum, interest rates, Melbourne Cup
E&OE.............
MCCLUSKY:
Prime Minister John Howard, a very good morning to you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning, how are you, Leigh?
MCCLUSKY:
Very well. Prime Minister, could I ask you, the yes case is saying that
on a day like - and it's opportune that we speak to you on Melbourne Cup
Day - they're saying this is exactly the sort of day that would make or
should make Australia focus on a future and that, they say, is a future
that should be as a republic. What do you say?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I say that Australians are going to enjoy Melbourne Cup Day irrespective
of the sort of system of government they have. I think people who try and
associate days like Melbourne Cup Day with one or other side of a political
argument are really missing the point. They're also misunderstanding their
Australia. If I know Australians they'll go to the Melbourne Cup, they'll
go to their parties, they'll participate in their office sweeps and they
won't be asking their friends and their work mates how they're going to
vote on Saturday. They'll be respecting the fact that we have different
views on that. But, at the end of the day, we are all Australians together.
So, can I just politely say to the yes campaigners, in voting national folk
occasions and national festivals like the Melbourne Cup in aid of either
side of the debate is silly.
PILKINGTON:
Prime Minister, you looked stunned on television last night when obviously
somebody from overseas said that if you were to lose the campaign, if the
yes vote were to get up on the weekend, would you resign, I mean, you genuinely
looked surprised at the question and you took a while to answer it. If,
indeed, the yes vote did get up, do you think that would weaken your position
personally at all?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the reason I took a moment to answer it was that there was a delay
on the satellite. You must understand that. Well, I was surprised at the
question. It was a silly question. The answer to your question, Tony, is
no. Just remember the history of this. I, despite my support for the current
system, consistent support, always indicated to the Australian people where
I stood. Despite that I promised before I became Prime Minister that I would
personally hold a convention and if clear support for a model emerged from
that convention I'd put that model to the Australian people for a vote before
the turn of the century. And that is exactly what I've done. I've delivered
on that promise. But I have never disguised the fact that I, personally,
am opposed to change. I have allowed members of the Parliamentary Liberal
Party a free vote and I make no apology for that. I think it was the right
thing to do and I think the debate has been conducted, in the main, with
a great deal of civility. And so the answer to your question is, whatever
verdict the Australian people deliver on Saturday, and I hope they vote
for the present system and I'm urging them to do so, but whatever decision
they take I will, of course, accept it. And it doesn't make any difference
to my position within the Government at all.
MCCLUSKY:
Mr Howard, would it be fair to say that there is - and obviously there are
some people who feel very passionately about this as an issue but there
are others who I think are, a) confused and b) increasingly disappointed
by the fact that the whole thing seems to have become terribly politicised,
that we've got former politicians, good, bad and otherwise, from both sides
now doing these terribly patriotic, hand-on-heart, this is what I think
you should vote and why. Do you feel that the Australian public is almost
saying, look, I don't want to know, I know we should want to know, but just
back off, let us actually make up our own minds?
PRIME MINISTER:
I guess there's an element of that but you get that in any election campaign.
What I've personally tried to do is present a reasoned argument. I didn't
get involved in the debate in any detail until last week and I delivered
a reasoned argument.
MCCLUSKY:
Well, in principle, Mr Howard, what is your main objection, what is the
one thing that says to you, we don't need to and we should not change?
PRIME MINISTER:
Because the present system has worked brilliantly and it's given us great
stability.
MCCLUSKY:
What of the argument where they say, but hang on, we've got to move into
the future, that, you know, we've got to cut the shackles?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, you're asking me what is my main reason and, I mean, I've given you
my main reason. Now, I don't think that argument about moving into the future
and cutting the shackles is sufficiently persuasive for us to take the risk
in moving away from a system we know works. What interests me about this
debate is that we've had a lot, we've had monumental attempts by the yes
proponents to argue that their model is an improvement on the present system.
I think deep down most people in this country, even those who intend to
vote yes, acknowledge that the present system is very stable and predictable
and has given us great security. And this is not a debate about who is the
better Australian. There are passionate Australians on both sides of this
debate. This is not a debate about the Australian identity. This is a debate
about what is the better system. I mean, this idea, which is implicit in
much of the yes propaganda, that you're really not being a full-on Australian
unless you vote yes, I mean, that is nonsense. And my main reason on this
issue is a conservative reason. I believe in changing things that are clearly
broken and clearly in need of change. And I've argued, as you know, to change
our tax system, to change our industrial relations system. I've never been
reluctant about arguing for change when I've thought it was good for Australia
but I don't think this change is good for Australia and that's why I'm going
to vote no. Now, that in a nutshell is why I'm against it.
PILKINGTON:
Prime Minister, at the end of the week and after the vote's taken on Saturday,
when can you see this issue coming up again? Do you think it's going to
be put to bed for the next four or five years and then is there any way
we can say, okay, that's the end of the argument and the debate for a given
period of time?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don't think anybody can start putting periods of time on it. I think
there will be a mood in the community no matter what the result not to revisit
the issue for a while. Now, if there's a yes vote I don't think there's
any prospect at all that there'll be a referendum, another referendum some
time into the future on the question of a directly elected President. I
think if there is a yes vote, well, the model that's being proposed on Saturday
will be with us for a long, long, long time. I've said forever, well, I
suppose you can never really define forever but it will certainly be with
us for the foreseeable future. If there's a no vote, I don't think the issue's
going to come back for a while but I can't sort of say forever and a day
that it won't. I mean, nobody can do that. I think the mood of the community
will be, whatever the outcome, that they won't want to revisit it for a
while. But I can't guarantee that at some time in the future the issue wouldn't
come back. I mean, nobody can. It will depend on a lot of things. And in
a democracy why should you expect to? I mean, in a democracy people in governments
have got a right to revisit issues if they choose and there's nothing wrong
with that. I know people find, on occasions, find votes irksome and everything
but, gee, isn't it better for us to be able to decide these things with
everybody having an equal vote.
MCCLUSKY:
Mr Howard, talking about everybody having an equal vote, as you have already
mentioned, there are members of your own party who feel passionately opposed
to you when it comes to this issue of a republic. I see there is speculation
today that somehow you and Peter Costello have closed ranks, you are about
to freeze out Peter Reith. Well, is there a plan and secondly, given the
fact that you have people who are working so closely for the Liberal Party
who are at opposite ends of a scale, has your relationship perhaps with
Peter Reith been damaged by his stance?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, no, it hasn't. And can I say in relation to that story I haven't made
any deals with anybody. The leadership of the Government is determined by
the members of the government parties, it's not determined by me or by any
other individual. And I am the Prime Minister, I am the leader of the Liberal
Party because my colleagues in the party chose me not because of any particular
deal making capacity. I don't do deals.
MCCLUSKY:
Your relationship though with Peter Reith seems.
PRIME MINISTER:
My relationship with Peter Reith is, in fact, very good. I was on the phone
to him barely 10 minutes ago discussing a range of matters. Can I just say
this that strange though it is for some people in the media, I don't mean
you and Tony, but others to understand - the Liberal Party has a tradition
on issues like this of allowing a free vote. We are a party of conscience,
we are a broad church, we do have conservatives and small 'l' Liberals on
a variety of issues. And the way in which we work together effectively as
a Government is that on occasions like this we recognise the reality and
that is people of good conscience are going to have different views. And
we have allowed a free vote and I am proud that my party has done that.
Once the referendum is over, well, there won't be a free vote any more on
this issue, there will be a Government position on how it's going to be
handled. But in formulating that Government position around the Cabinet
table and in the party room each individual member will be able to contribute
his or her point of view. So if you are taking publicly a point of view
now on this issue you'll be able to continue to take that issue privately
but there will be developed a Government position and naturally all members
of the Cabinet will adhere to that Government position. But a suggestion
of, you know, people are being frozen, nobody is being frozen out or frozen
in. Once the referendum is over we revert to normal and our aim from Sunday
will be to resume what we have always done and that is serving the Australian
people as your elected Government.
PILKINGTON:
Prime Minister, has the Government done any polling on the issue?
PRIME MINISTER:
The Government?
PILKINGTON:
Yes.
PRIME MINISTER:
The Government has not done any partisan polling on the issue now. I understand
that the advertising agency in relation to the, some advertisements does
what they ever do but, I mean, the Government as such has not done any partisan
polling, no.
MCCLUSKY:
What's your feeling on how it's going to go?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't know. I really.
MCCLUSKY:
[Inaudible]
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I don't. I am wary of polls. I read the poll this morning and I also
read the polls before the Victorian election.
MCCLUSKY:
Well, they didn't help really.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, they didn't. Well, one of them right at the end was, to be fair, was
accurate. And I think one of them, to be fair, was accurate at four weeks'
out. Look, this is a very unusual issue, Leigh. People who I've talked to
surprise me. I find some people I expect to be yes voters and they are not,
and I find others I expect to be no voters and they are yes voters. So I
just hope in the end that the undecided people who are those who are going
to decide this will consider the simple proposition that if you are in doubt
you should vote no. If you worry that you might be changing to something
that is unknown and less safe you shouldn't take that risk. And whatever
people say about symbolism, and I have not thought the arguments in favour
of a symbolic change have been very strong, the reality is that this has
been one of fewer than 10 nations on earth that has been continuously democratic
for the whole of the 20th Century. We have through an accident
and a divisive history, we have a marvellous arrangement where you have
a neutral person as governor-general and as an effective head of state.
And the reason that person is neutral is because that person applies the
conventions and the practices of the Crown which have been developed by
the hundreds and hundreds of years. And that history and the conventions
arising from that history have given our system of Government a special
and unique territory and I would be very loathe to risk that. And I feel
quite strongly that there's a very effective, affirmative taste for hanging
onto the present system. But it's not nostalgia, it's not imperial sentimentality,
it is a commonsense Australian belief that we have a good system.
MCCLUSKY:
Prime Minister, two quick questions before I let you go. As you know, the
Reserve Bank Board Meeting this morning, speculation about an increase of
.25 per cent. Would that surprise you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don't talk in any way about the future path of interest rates. I
am sorry, I have kept to that rule religiously since becoming Prime Minister.
MCCLUSKY:
Not talking about it but as a comment, would you reconsider.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no. I think I had better take your betting advice, it's very well put.
Not talking about it but just a comment.
MCCLUSKY:
All right. And in terms of today, who have you got your money on?
PRIME MINISTER:
I have to confess that I am going for Sky Heights. I got a bit worried when
I saw that it had moved into favouritism, it always makes me very nervous.
MCCLUSKY:
You don't want those short price favourites.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, that's right. A tough horse is always there at the finish, he's
going for the double. But it does make me a little bit nervous as he has
moved in to favouritism. I mean, Rogan Josh is pretty close but I picked
Sky Heights a few days ago.
MCCLUSKY:
So you are not a man to change your mind though are you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, if there's a good reason put to me. If I think it's better for Australia
I'll change my mind.
MCCLUSKY:
Prime Minister, it's been a pleasure as always, thank you for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Thank you.
[ends]