E&OE.............................................................................................
FAINE:
Good morning to you Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning John.
FAINE:
Thank you very much for coming in. The drug debate has been raging
now for a good six or so months. Like every other media outlet we
have been running endless numbers of stories and hearing from parents
going through agonising times. I understand you have recently been
talking more to parents instead of just to policy makers and people
who are working in the field, the professionals.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, well yesterday one of the good things about the venue for the
announcement, which was the Anglicare headquarters here in Melbourne,
was that there were a lot of parents and addicts, or former addicts,
who were actually there and I talked to them for some time afterwards
and they detailed their experiences. And some parents still struggling
with the problem because their children are still on drugs and they
are trying to get them off them. Others who had gone through the programme
offered by Anglicare very successfully. One really quite inspiring
story of a woman and her young son and the boy had lost his father
through a heroin overdose some years ago and his mother had had a
problem as well but she was now rid of it and the boy was doing spectacularly
well at school. And to talk to him and to hear that story is very
encouraging because you do tend to get all the dismal stories and
there are a lot of dismal stories. I talk to a lot of parents in my....I
have talked to parents in my electorate office in Sydney who grapple
with this problem and there is as much division as to what you ought
to do from the parents of drug victims as there is within the general
community. Some of them say we should be even tougher. Others say
we should be very liberal. There is no one single message that comes
out of those discussions except the need for more treatment facilities.
And what was good about yesterday was that it was a total emphasis
on treatment facilities. Now, yesterday wasn't the beginning
and the end of our response it was just but an element. However, the
good thing about yesterday is that we have helped about 50 treatment
facilities around Australia. These are organisations that actually
help people who want to break the habit and it is just inexcusable
for us to have a situation where people who want to break the habit
can't get help pretty quickly because as one person said to me
yesterday if your child makes the decision that they want to break
the habit it is critically important that there be help available
as quickly as possible.
FAINE:
And one thing you could do straight away is make Naltrexone and other
similar drugs cheaper by subsidising them.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we are perfectly happy to fast track that and I have made that
clear before. There is a procedure, the thing has to be checked by
the I think it's the NHMRC. There is an established procedure,
you can't have prime ministers saying in a random unscientific
way because I am not a doctor as to what should or should not be on
the list. But as far as the Government is concerned we will fast track
that to the maximum extent we can. We do need the cooperation of the
manufacturer and I just want to make it very clear that if it passes
the clinical hurdles that any drug seeking a subsidy or manufacturer
seeks a subsidy must do then we will be only too happy to make it
available.
FAINE:
Not that Naltrexone is a magic bullet.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, there is no magic bullet in this whole thing.
FAINE:
And that's what we are all learning.
PRIME MINISTER:
We are. And it is a war of attrition and you have to try treatment,
you have got to try education, you must, of course, put more resources
into enforcement. It's a three-pronged attack and perhaps in
recent weeks there hasn't been enough focus on the treatment
side of it. And that is an area where everybody agrees whether you
are for or against a heroin trial, you are for treatment. Whether
you are for or against something else you are for treatment and the
more treatment facilities that are available the better.
FAINE:
Prime Minister, the $20 million allocated yesterday does not seem
to be uniformly distributed around the country. An analysis that's
been done of allocation of the money shows that Victoria got only
about 13 per cent, 13.5 per cent, of the grant money even though with
usual health funding we get about 25 per cent and, of course, we are
about that proportion of the population. So I think.....
PRIME MINISTER:
...well, there were previous allocations. There was about $30 million
announced in September of last year. So you have now had announcements
of about $50 million and I would imagine that when you aggregate two
of them together you have a reasonable distribution. But I will have
a look at that. That's the first time that has been raised with
me but I would ask those who may be concerned about that to factor
in the $30 million that was announced last year.
FAINE:
We actually got less money than Queensland. Of course we have a much
larger population.
PRIME MINISTER:
But you are just talking about yesterday....
FAINE:
Yesterday's announcement.
PRIME MINISTER:
But I am just saying to get a fair picture you have got to factor
in the $30 million last year as well. So there's a total now
of $50 million that has been allocated. So before people make pejorative
judgements about distribution then let's do the calculation involving
the money that was allocated last year.
FAINE:
The amount allocated across the board seems to be either $237,000
to an individual organisation, or a multiple of that, the vast majority
of the grants having looked through the 40 or so pages of the details.
A lot of organisations got $237,000. Now, we had a chance yesterday
to talk to two organisations and they said that they didn't actually
submit for $237,000 or any other sum and it seems as if someone has
decided that that's how much they'll get without looking
at any submission from them, so what was the process that was used
to allocate this money?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the process involved reference groups at each State level. It
involved people who are on the Drugs Council and it also involved
the ‘experts' in the field and also had to be approved in
the end by the Council, and by the Government, by Dr Wooldridge and
myself. I am not aware that we set out to have an average of 237.
I looked at a lot of the grants, I looked at most of them, and they
were for different amounts, I mean, some as high as $1.5 million.
FAINE:
Certainly there are multiples of that sum but we were wondering if
it was the old Ros Kelly whiteboard technique and saying, look we
have decided to allocate $20 million and we'd now have to find
as many organisations that are ready to receive it as we can.
PRIME MINISTER:
No because there were many more organisations who wanted funds who
missed out. I mean, there was one organisation that came along to
the launch yesterday that said they'd put in and they missed
out and they hoped they would be considered in a future application.
I don't think there's any whiteboard element because one
of the very supportive phone calls that my office got yesterday was
from a Labor frontbencher representing a seat in the Hunter Valley.
We made money available to a programme in Cessnock which is in a Federal
Labor seat and the federal member for that electorate rang my office
and spoke to the adviser on my staff who deals with this issue and
wanted to express his gratitude for the fact that a group in his electorate
had received a grant and generally expressed support for yesterday's
announcement which I think is a good thing because I am not seeking
to politicise this issue in any way. He is a Labor member, he is a
Labor frontbencher, a Labor federal member and he expressed a lot
of satisfaction. So we clearly haven't sought in any way to politicise
the grants which was a criticism that could legitimately be made of
Ros Kelly's whiteboard. I mean, most of the money went to Labor
electorates, I don't think you'll find any substantial allegation
that this money has gone to the friends of the Liberal Party, heavens
above no.
FAINE:
I am sure you have seen the front page of today's Age
newspaper and The Financial Review also, pictures of the jewellery
that the Australian Olympic representative, Phil Coles, says he hasn't
got and has never seen and has never seen his wife wearing. There
was a picture on the front page of the Age of Mr Coles and
his wife together at a function and she is wearing the jewellery that
Mr Coles says he knows nothing about. For how long do we sit by as
the Australian people and do you as the Prime Minister sit by and
watch the Sydney Olympics being dragged through the mud like this?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, it's a difficult question to answer in just a few words
because I can't presume without having heard all sides of the
story to make judgements which reflect on somebody's character
and reputation. It's very easy for people in a different position
from me to make those judgements. I do carry the responsibility that
if I say something that is highly critical of a person's character
it carries the weight of being words spoken by the Prime Minister
of the country and I don't think that should be...that authority
should be used lightly.
FAINE:
But even overnight from Lausanne, Dick Pound the investigator brought
in by the Olympic movement says it's a new fact that we will
have to investigate....
PRIME MINISTER:
However, I mean, having made the comment I did, however, everybody
recognises that the last few months have been extremely negative for
the whole Olympic Games process. It is very regrettable and it has
done damage and I think everybody involved, everybody involved with
responsibility for organising the Games has to examine what has happened.
It is not just the responsibility of one person and I can't issue
instructions to do this or do that....
FAINE:
But you have a lot of influence.
PRIME MINISTER:
I have influence but you would understand that the best way to use
that influence is not by making random public comments.
FAINE:
But aren't you getting to the stage now where surely you want
to see this scuttlebutt put to rest, you want to see the Sydney Olympics
getting on with the main game which is putting on a fabulous carnival....
PRIME MINISTER:
And I believe that will happen. I certainly do believe that will happen.
FAINE:
Well, while all this is distracting them I am sure it's a hindrance
they'd rather do without.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, of course they would rather do without it but, John, bear in
mind that it's downtime at the moment and although these are
very negative happenings and they have detracted from the reputation
of the Olympic movement very seriously, not might I say at an Australian
level so much as perhaps at an international level, the reading I
get from the Australian community is that it's the international
the more world-wide body that is more heavily criticised rather than
the Australian one.
FAINE:
Why do we need Phil Coles?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, John, you are asking me to make a judgement as to whether he
should or should not go and I am just not prepared to do that in a
random way, I don't think that's an appropriate thing for
a Prime Minister who can't in any event affect the membership
of SOCOG. I don't control SOCOG, I have two representatives on
it. I do think the legal arrangements that were entered into at the
time it was established gave extraordinary power to the Australian
Olympic Committee, I don't think there is any doubt about that,
quite extraordinary power. But I was not in any way, I was not responsible
for that nor, indeed, was the Federal Government. It was an arrangement
concluded by the New South Wales Government.
FAINE:
Although now with hindsight can we say that it's never a good
idea for any government to give a body that much power?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don't think it's ever a good idea to give anybody
the power of veto over something which involves the public interest
to the extent that the successful staging of these Games do involve.
There is a public interest, there's an Australian national interest
in these Games, not just a Sydney interest. This is an Australian
event more than it's a Sydney event. It's being held in
Sydney but it goes to the reputation of our whole country and there
is a public interest in the process and, I think, with the benefit
of hindsight that was an error.
FAINE:
You'd like them to clean it up?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I want the Games to be very successful. Of course I want the
thing to be done well. Of course I want the focus to be on what an
incredible opportunity to showcase our country these Games will be.
FAINE:
And our highest ethical standards.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we all want high ethical standards. There are very high ethical
standards demanded of people in public life. There are levels of accountability.
I mean, politicians lose their positions if they breach certain rules.
FAINE:
If Phil Coles was a member of your Cabinet would you remove him?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, he's not and that's a hypothetical question, good
try.
FAINE:
All right. Moving on to the announcement yesterday also that it seems
Australia is to get another uranium mine. Now, on my count this will
be our fourth mine, we've gone from two to four in the space
of a short period of time. This is an odd business decision from what
I understand and what I read in the business pages. The price of uranium
is at a bit of a low point at the moment so why are we opening up
another uranium mine when uranium sells for only $10 a tonne when
it used to sell for $30 a tonne.
PRIME MINISTER:
But, John, it's not the role of the Government to decide whether
a company is making a wise business decision. It's the role of
the Government to agree to something going ahead.....
FAINE:
I should say that's a pound rather than a tonne....
PRIME MINISTER:
...It's the role of the Government to agree to something going
ahead if the rules have been observed. It's not, it's not
for me to say as Prime Minister whether you are making a wise business
decision in opening a shop or buying a piece of real estate or investing
in a holiday home, that's not for me to decide. It is for me
to decide, or Premier or Prime Minister, to decide whether or not
you have complied with the law relating to the opening of shops or
buildings or buying holiday homes. So the fact that the market may
not be beckoning at present is a risk that the entrepreneur is taking,
it is not something that the Government should take into account.
We should take into account environmental safeguard and all other
regulatory requirements.
FAINE:
And indeed you also need to take into account the political realities
of it which we'll come to in a moment. But we've also got
the situation where we've got apparently a consortium in the
States wanting to declare Australia to be the world's uranium
waste dump. So if we're opening new mines now where do we go
in arguing that we don't want any responsibility for nuclear
waste? If the world identifies us as the site for a dump.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they're two quite separate issues. Just as we can decide
to allow a new uranium mine to open we can decide whether or not waste
is dumped in this country. And we have done that. We have made it
absolutely clear that that will not be allowed.
FAINE:
And opening a new mine doesn't in any way influence world opinion
on that?
PRIME MINISTER:
It doesn't. World opinion doesn't matter. It's the
decision of the Australian people that matters and the Australian
people through their government have said we won't be a nuclear
waste dump full stop.
FAINE:
Alright but at the same time the Democrats leader Senator Meg Lees
said the decision to approve the mine is absolutely stupid and the
assessment process she describes as shoddy and this is the same Meg
Lees, leader of the Democrats, with whom you'll have to do some
intense negotiation when she holds the balance of power in the Senate
in a couple of months time.
PRIME MINISTER:
John, good government is about making the right decision according
to the merits of an issue and if we are to make decisions based on
how people in the Senate holding the balance of power will vote on
other issues we won't make good decisions.
FAINE:
The Senate and the role of the Senate is going to be absolutely critical
in the next phase of your Government's life. You want to get
through your business, GST tax reforms. You want to get through industrial
relations reforms. You've got a very short period of time to
get anything through between now and the end of June and then you've
got to deal with the Democrats.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes. I'm very much aware of that. Very much aware of that.
FAINE:
Well it's not the time to go around antagonising them is my point.
PRIME MINISTER:
But come. Are we going to have a situation where you just trim your
sails on good policy in the hope that the Democrats or anybody else
will look favourably upon you? The Democrats have made it very clear
that they are not going to support the tax package in its present
form. Their position on uranium mining is well known. So is ours.
We went to the last election with the policy on uranium mining that
we are now implementing. Everybody knew that we were against three
mines policy for uranium. Everybody knew that our attitude was that
subject to environmental safeguards and safety standards and all the
other things that have to be applied we would allow further uranium
mines to open. Now that is what we are doing. We are implementing
our policy and it's just not acceptable to trim that policy,
which is good policy in the resource sector in our view, in the rather
vague hope that in some way that might influence the Democrats in
re