E&OE..................................................................................................
JONES:
The Prime Minister is on the line. Prime Minister, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Alan.
JONES:
Prime Minister, can I just say to you that even broadcasters get depressed.
I feel very depressed today. I've argued and cajoled, and tried
to persuade you about a national disaster fund. Here we are yet again,
there are people in appalling plights, can there be anything more
important for your initiative or John Fahey's today than the
concern of these people?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, there isn't but can I say a couple of things about that.
Firstly, any person who is insured is entitled to get full recovery
on their insurance policy. There can't be any argument that this
was a storm. In the past insurance companies have said well, this
is flood damage and it's not fully covered.
JONES:
PM, I am sorry to interrupt you but that isn't the point, that
is not the point. They know that. What is the point at the moment
is....
PRIME MINISTER:
Alan, I am sorry....
JONES:
No, let me just tell you the problem...
PRIME MINISTER:
But, Alan, please, I mean, you asked me a question and I....
JONES:
You are talking something that they all know, John, fair dinkum.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I am sorry, could I just go on to say...I mean, I know you
say the answer is to have a national disaster fund....
JONES:
But you won't even consider it.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, but we effectively have one at the moment.
JONES:
Oh....
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I am sorry...
JONES:
No, you're kidding me, John. I can't believe you go to Western
Australia and you say you don't need a national disaster fund
and when you go to Western Australia your existing structures are
so inadequate that you say, well, we've got to give them $10
million, we've got to give them....If the fund and the processes
were okay you wouldn't have to give them $10 million they would
be adequate to cope.
PRIME MINISTER:
In every major disaster of this kind when there has been a demonstrated
need over and above, and I am quite certain that there are demonstrated
needs over and above what is covered by the existing arrangements,
they'll be discussed by me with the New South Wales Premier.
JONES:
Prime Minister, do you understand, I am sorry, I mean, do you understand
that the SES have 5,500 calls that they cannot currently service of
people whose homes can not be lived in at this moment. And they are
asking the Prime Minister of this country to, for God's sake,
recognise this is a problem and can you get the army or someone in?
Can you get tarpaulins available, can you recruit tradesmen, can you
provide money from a fund which will actually get this work done so
that the rain isn't falling in homes which are already flooded?
PRIME MINISTER:
Alan, I understand very, very strongly and very, very deeply how you
feel and you are right to be concerned about the people of Sydney
as I am. It is easy to say that when you have something like this
that strains services to the maximum and, in fact, it's easy
and appropriate to say, well there should be more of them. And I can
assure you and I can assure your listeners that if there is a need
for more of those services over and above what are now available which
is demonstrated out of this well I will talk to the New South Wales
Premier about providing those. But I have to say in defence of what
you have just said, defence of myself and defence of the Federal Government
and indeed of State governments, that there are extensive arrangements
available already, they do come into operation. I think the State
Emergency Services have responded magnificently and in this disaster....
JONES:
Subsidised by employers.
PRIME MINISTER:
I beg your pardon?
JONES:
Subsidised by employers.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes. Well, part of the Australian spirit, Alan, is to help each other
when they're in need and that involves....
JONES:
Well, that's what I am asking you to do now.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, there are arrangements. The arrangements that operate now will
involve the expenditure, potentially, of millions of dollars of money....
JONES:
PM, if they worked why would you have to give $10 million in Western
Australia? If they were working....
PRIME MINISTER:
Hang on, Alan, what happened in Western Australia could well happen
in New South Wales...
JONES:
It's happened here.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Alan, please, let me....look, I know you feel strongly about
this....
JONES:
I really feel quite depressed.
PRIME MINISTER:
I know that but I think it's also fair that you let me finish.
In Western Australia, in Katherine, in a number of other places where
the ordinary standing arrangements for the provision of...the Commonwealth
supplements the cash grants given by State governments to people who
because of the disaster need money. Now, that is how the arrangement
works. The State provides a certain amount, once it goes beyond a
certain level the Commonwealth then comes in and subsidises the State.
So all of those people who are in an immediate cash need as a result
of this disaster can go along and ask for that. We also have ex-gratia
arrangements available and if the New South Wales Government believes
that the existing arrangements are not working they can talk to Mr
Fahey, they can talk to me and make sure that those are also available.
In addition to that, if there is a clear demonstration, as there was
in Exmouth, that as a result of the disaster businesses are being
destroyed quite separately from homes, and I'll come to homes
in a moment, then that fund was essentially made available for emergency
relief for the small businesses to get the town going again.
JONES:
But you can understand that it's more...I am sorry, I mean,
I find it hard, I don't want to say that you don't understand
but look, there's a street in Kensington, the whole street is
done over. Now, these people firstly have got to do the most basic
thing and that is find someone who can take their call and answer
their problem. The windows are smashed, the house all blown in. 176,
all the windows smashed, ceiling and floor damage. 117, water leaking
down all the walls, it poured at half past one last night. We are
asking a system to be in place where these people aren't asked
to make phone calls where people arrive in their droves by a national
plan and fix these people up. They are pensioners, they are poor people,
they are people on shift work, they have got wages and salaries, they
can't afford to pay any kind of money to get someone there at
the moment because a workman is going to say, can you pay. They don't
have $250 spare. What do they do, will the Prime Minister tell me
what they do.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, if they don't have cash available for their immediate needs
the existing arrangements involve them getting that and if the State
doesn't have enough money to support all of that...
JONES:
How do they make contact? How do they know who to ring?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Alan, nobody, let's face it, you have an emergency number.
I mean, be fair. The State emergency services all around this country
work extremely well and it doesn't automatically follow that
something run from Canberra is going to be more efficient than something
run from Sydney.
JONES:
Where's the Army, someone said where's the Army, they've
got tarpaulins?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the Army is always called in and is always available if asked.
JONES:
By whom?
PRIME MINISTER:
That has to be asked by the State authorities because they have the
police. The New South Wales Government and look, I'm not
sort of pointing the finger at them, they've done a very good
job the New South Wales Government is responsible for the emergency
services and the police and they are the first points of contact.
And if they need help they would automatically go to the Army. They
don't have to ring me. They don't have to ring the Defence
Minister. They have standing arrangements. The Army was automatically
called in to Katherine. The defence forces were involved in Exmouth
in Western Australia. When I went to Exmouth in Western Australia
I came across ADF personnel. They didn't have to ask my permission
to go there. There's a standing arrangement. You talk as though
these things don't happen.
JONES:
They're not happening. John, this occurred on Wednesday night.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, maybe you should be...
JONES:
You're the Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I'm telling you what the arrangement is and if that hasn't
happened then that is something that ought to be...
JONES:
PM, this occurred on Wednesday night, it is now Friday and SES, who
are phenomenal, won't come anywhere near solving this by the
weekend. There are people who could be your mother or your brother
without a roof over their head and they don't even have a car
to get from A to B because they can't get the work done. They're
requiring an operation bigger than any of the component parts to be
able to address the problem immediately.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Alan, can I tell you, you are it did happen on Wednesday
night. Under the standing arrangements that exist, if the response
of the Defence Force to a request from the SES or the New South Wales
Police had not been adequate I would have heard about it. Mr Carr
would have got in touch with me. You are the first person who has
suggested to me or implied to me that the SES has not had the co-operation
from the defence forces to which they are entitled. As a result of
this phone call I will now get in touch with Mr Carr. I'll get
in touch with the Defence Minister and I'll find out whether
any request was made and what happened to that request. But I will
be very surprised, given the past attitude of the Australian Defence
Forces, that if they had been asked to help that they wouldn't
have immediately gone in there and help. They don't need my...
JONES:
Well, if they don't help in this disaster when will they help?
PRIME MINISTER:
What I'm saying to you is people don't go and I mean,
there is an arrangement, if they were asked they would have gone.
You are implying that in some way they have to ask me.
JONES:
No I'm not.
PRIME MINISTER:
They don't have to ask me. I mean, I could be anywhere. You have
a standing arrangement. They don't have to go through the Prime
Minister. They ring up the relevant contact person in the Defence
Force and say we need help. Now, that happened in Katherine and it
happened in Exmouth and I assume that in the case of the Sydney storm
it would have happened it they had have needed it. Now, Alan, as a
result of your call I will now, I'll get in touch with Mr Carr
and I'll get in touch with the Defence Minister and I'll
find out whether any request was made. But I want your listeners to
understand that in circumstances like this the Army and the Navy and
the Air Force, in an emergency situation, are always available to
help if they are asked and if they are called upon because the local
State services can't handle the problem. Now, that has always
been the case and I don't want anybody to think for a moment
that we just let the State emergency services think we leave them
alone. We don't. We are always ready to supplement and all they
have to do is ring up.
JONES:
That's right but there are people out there who don't have
insurance, and they should have and so on but they mightn't be
able to afford, but they are Australians and they are part of our
world. And today they are left without any means, most probably, to
be able to repair their house or repair their car. It's most
probably a little butter box of a thing which is 15 or 18 years old.
And I'm saying that surely to God there has to be a better mechanism
in place than all these fragmented responses. But you say, you say
it's terrific but I don't see evidence of it being terrific.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Alan, I don't think when something like this happens anything
is terrific because you never expect something like this and it was
absolutely ferocious and the way in which it devastated parts of Sydney
must have been absolutely terrifying for the people concerned.
JONES:
Will you have a chance to drive out and have a look at it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I will. I will try and do that today. Yes, I will. Unfortunately
I couldn't do it yesterday because I had a long-standing commitment
to go to Newcastle.
JONES:
PM, they're relying on you. I want you to understand that. The
desperate people that have rung me this morning many calls
I couldn't put to air are relying on you. That's
all I can say. I can't put it any higher than that.
PRIME MINISTER:
I want them to understand that I am concerned about their plight.
And if there are areas of additional help over and above the arrangements
that already exist then that help will be made available. And could
I stress again what I started to say at the beginning and that is
that the insurance arrangements, surely there could be no argument
from any insurance company who has a policy covering people against
storm damage that that person should be able to recover in full to
the extent of that policy. Because this is not a flood, it was a storm.
Anybody who argues that there's not a liability under a storm
damage provision in an insurance policy in relation to this is...
JONES:
I don't think that's happening though.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I just wanted to add my weight...
JONES:
Yeah, well it's not happening.
PRIME MINISTER:
...and suggest that it was happening.
JONES:
As for other areas of unmet need, of course, as we have in other disasters,
we've been willing to look. I have to say at this stage I've
not had any request from Mr Carr. I mean, in Western Australia what
happened was that the Western Australian Premier rang me and said,
look, this and this and this is the problem, we're covering it
up to here but we need your help over here. Now, I haven't had
that call from Mr Carr. Obviously if Mr Carr believes that there is
a need over and above he'll talk to me. Now, I'm not being
critical of him because I think the New South Wales Government has
responded appropriately. I think the SES and the police have done
terrific. I'm not interested in any point scoring politically
on something like this. They're trying hard, I know that, and
the emergency services are always stretched. I mean, the nature of
an emergency is that when it happens everybody is stretched to the
limit. You can never have an emergency response or a national disaster
response that means you have people to spare even in the greatest
emergency. No nation can afford to have that and no citizenry would
want a country to have that kind of arrangement. They want an arrangement
which is flexible and strong when it's needed. Now, of course
out of every disaster you examine whether changes and improvements
can be made but no government can guarantee against the terrifying
and the devastating aftermath of an unexpected freak storm. You can
provide help but you can't guarantee that everything is going
to be fixed in 24 hours.
JONES:
Okay.
PRIME MINISTER:
Sorry, I'd like to be able to do that but I can't.
JONES:
Okay, well I thank you for your time and for your consideration.
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay.
[ends]