SUBJECTS: Republic referendum, Constitutional preamble.
JEFFRIES:
On the line Prime Minister John Howard. Prime Minister, good afternoon,
thanks for your time.
PRIME MINISTER:
Pleasure Mike.
JEFFRIES:
Mr Beazley says if a "yes" vote is successful Saturday and he's
elected to Government two years from now he'll offer Australians a direct
election model. Do you believe that?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I don't. I don't believe it for a number of reasons, the most important
is that he himself doesn't believe in a direct election.
JEFFRIES:
So why is he saying this then?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think he is saying it because the people who want a "yes"
vote on Saturday are desperate to get as many people who support a direct
election for the presidency to vote yes on Saturday. But once this particular
republican model were to get up if it were to get up, and I hope it doesn't,
but if it were to get up then there's no chance in my view that the supporters
of the republic in both parties would then favour yet another ballot to
allow for a direct election of the president. Because most of the people,
like Mr Beazley and Mr Costello and many others who are in favour of the
republican model on offer on Saturday are not in favour of a directly elected
presidency. Because Mr Beazley himself at the Constitutional Convention
supported essentially the model that is being put on Saturday. See people
have got to be consistent otherwise you confuse people. I have been consistent,
people may disagree with me, but I have always argued that we should stick
with our present Constitution because it's safe and reliable and we know
it works. And I'll cop the criticism for that position but at least people
know where I stand. Now, Mr Beazley has said, yes, he wants a republic but
he believes in the model being put up on Saturday but then if he.if that's
successful he'll put it up again to test whether it's a directly elected
presidency. Now, that's all about conning those people into voting for it
and I think they'll see through that anyway. That's my view.
JEFFRIES:
I spoke to Meg Lees earlier today about the preamble. Now, Meg Lees and
Aden Ridgeway are still strong supporters of the preamble that you created
with Les Murray. The Labor Party at one stage were supporting it but now
they're backing away from it, the theory being that it will fail and they
don't want to be standing anywhere near it when it does.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that's not very principled if that is the case.
JEFFRIES:
Well that may be so. It's not very principled but that does seem like a
likely scenario though doesn't it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don't know. I don't take anything for granted in either proposal.
I mean, my position is that I would like to see the republic defeated but
I would like to see the preamble succeed. The great advantage of the preamble,
and bear in mind all your listeners, a preamble is just a simple statement
of basic values and beliefs. It doesn't have any legally binding effect
and it talks about things like recognising the place of the aborigines as
the first people of the nation. It talks about the sacrifice of people in
war about the common values that bind us together as Australians. And one
of my reasons for proposing the preamble was that here was an opportunity
for people who have different views on the republic to come together to
support something that is aspirational. You mention Senator Ridgeway and
Senator Lees. They are both supporters of the republic. I am not. Yet the
three of us together will support the preamble. And I think it will be a
fine thing if we went to the celebration of the centenary of our nation
with a statement of the aspirational values of the Australian community.
And there's nothing in the preamble that should offend anybody. Sure, there
is a reference to God. Now, there are some in the community who are offended
by that but I think the great majority of Australians are perfectly happy
to have it there. And then.
JEFFRIES:
May I say so just on that point that one of the objections is not so much
based on whether or not you believe in God but because there should be a
strong divide between church and state in this country.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, but that would be valid if this were to be used in the interpretation
of the Constitution.
JEFFRIES:
So you don't think it will have any legal effect, that's the bottom line?
PRIME MINISTER:
There's a clause going into the Constitution saying that so there's no possibility
at all that it can be used in the interpretation of the Constitution. But
even so a mere statement that you have hope in God or trust in God is hardly
likely to affect the interpretation of the Constitution. The notion of a
separation of church and state is that we don't have an established religion
in this country and we have never had that and there's always been a clear
division between the church and state in that sense. And there are no restrictions
put on people according to their religious belief, I mean, positions in
the Australian community.
JEFFRIES:
On the subject of restrictions, you say whatever the outcome of Saturday's
referendum it won't cause endless division within Liberal ranks. Clearly,
there's quite a lot of passion, at least for some people associated with
Saturday' referendum, it's unlikely that the disagreement that certain members
of your party have are going to just disappear overnight. What will you
be expecting of them?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don't expect them to change their minds on the issue. That's unrealistic.
But I do expect that I am sure this is what will occur, that once the referendum
is over then there will no longer be a free vote on the issue. If people
favour something well they'll argue for that in the Cabinet, if they are
a Minister, or they'll argue for it in the party room if they are not a
Minister and when the Government's policy is determined then everybody will
be advised to support it. But there's nothing strange about that, that's
how a party normally operates. I am not suggesting that somebody who has
gone out and argued passionately for a particular position on the republic
should then on Sunday because of a particular result say: well, I no longer
believe that. I mean, you can't ask people. But what you can ask them, and
I will ask them and I know they will, is to accept that the people have
spoken.
Now, whatever the result is, if it's a "yes" vote on Saturday
even though I have campaigned against it I will say: well, I accept it because
the people have spoken. And I have always said that I would transmit this
issue to the Australian people. I will then as Prime Minister get on with
implementing the verdict of the Australian people. So let there be no doubt
that we will bow to the wishes of the people because they are our masters
on this issue and whatever decision they take we are obliged to implement
it. Now, if it's a "no" vote I have said before, and I'll repeat
it, that I don't expect the issue will come back in a hurry. And I would
expect that, however, that, and I am sure this is what will happen that
people within the Liberal Party will put any point of view they want to
inside the party in the forums of the party but we will have a united Government
position as from Sunday. And everybody senior in the party accepts that.
JEFFRIES:
Finally, Prime Minister, would you like to make a prediction as to what
the result will be on Saturday?
PRIME MINISTER:
No. I do not predict what the result it. This is a very unusual, it's very
interesting, it's a very different ballot. It's not like a normal political
contest. I know people in the Liberal Party who share my philosophy who
disagree with me on this and I know Labor voters who agree with me on it.
So I find it very hard to predict. I do hope, however, going back to the
preamble that people support the preamble because the preamble is something
that can unite us all. It's a simple statement of common Australian values
and I think it's a wonderful opportunity for republicans and anti-republicans
alike to come together and support the preamble. But as to a prediction
I am not going to do that because I really don't know what's going to happen.
I hope the republic is defeated. I see no purpose in changing a system that
has given us such stability for 100 years. I see no merit in that at all
but I don't know what the outcome will be.
JEFFRIES:
Mr Howard, thanks for your comments on the programme today.
PRIME MINISTER:
You are very welcome.
[ends]