JOURNALIST:
New unemployment figures. 7.9% for April, the best since 1990.
What did you do? Dance on the desk, kiss David Kemp? You must be
ecstatic.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I was very happy, but more importantly a lot of the people
who have got jobs - 58,000 of them in the last month - they'd
be even more happy. This is a real break-through figure. It is the
best since before the "recession we had to have" and ...
well, it is. Mr Beazley was Employment Minister then and he took
unemployment to 11.2% and this is 7.9%. It really is very good.
The participation rate went up - that's the number of people
who are looking for jobs. Sometimes you get a fall in unemployment
because people give up the chase, but on this occasion the participation
rate went up a little and there's been a 42,000 rise in full-time
jobs - 16,000 in part-time jobs.
CARLTON:
Is this a blip though? I mean, when the figures are bad you say
"oh, we don't take any notice of one month's figures".
I mean, why should we take any notice of this month's figures?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I wouldn't argue that you only ever fixate on one month,
of course, but there's a lot of psychology in this, and there
is something psychologically positive about breaking below the 8%
figure for the first time in almost eight years.
CARLTON:
That was the budget estimate wasn't it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes it was the budget estimate, and on current indications we are
going to do better than that estimate, but look, obviously you go
from month to month, and I don't deny that. But whenever the
figures go the wrong way, quite properly people express concern,
and when they go the right way it is legitimate to say that we have
created something like 173,000 new jobs since the middle of last
year and we are now at 7.9% and the former government averaged 8.7%.
And when you add that to the low inflation, the low interest rates,
the success we've had in reducing the budget deficit, turning
around that deficit of $10.5 billion we inherited two years ago,
it all adds up to a very positive economic picture.
CARLTON:
The Governor of the Reserve Bank was a bit gloomy today, in that
speech he gave today he predicts growth will drop from 4% to 3%,
the Asian economic crisis is going to be a bit rough, and he says
that continuing falls in the jobless rate are unlikely.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I guess it's which bit of his speech you look at. The
other bit of his interview before the - I think it was the Senate
committee - indicated that he thought interest rates would stay
where they were at the present time, which is very good news. Some
people have been suggesting they ought to go up, others, they ought
to go down. I don't want to say any more than what he said
about that, but if you add all of those things up it's a very
very strong picture, and then you inject into that something I suppose
a lot of people didn't expect and that is the de-mutualisation
of the AMP.
CARLTON:
Do you think that will have a ...
PRIME MINISTER:
I do. I think it will have quite a significant effect on consumer
spending, because you are unlocking about $16 billion of accumulated
wealth, and some of the people who get the shares will sell them,
and they will spend the proceeds of the sale of those shares on
trips, on washing machines, on cars and all sorts of things.
CARLTON:
You'll have to get in that Goods and Services Tax very quickly
to catch it, haven't you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we're certainly going to produce a lower personal income
tax before the next election, and part of our package is.... Look,
we will go to the next election with a comprehensive tax reform
package, like we said.
CARLTON:
Are we going to know anything more about your tax reform plans
on Tuesday?
PRIME MINISTER:
No. Tuesday is not about announcing our tax package. Tuesday is
about the Budget. It will of course contain, like all budgets, a
number of individual announcements as well as an overall framework
of the year ahead and a stocktake of the economy and a report card
on the management and it will a very very good, it will be an A+
report card.
CARLTON:
All right...
PRIME MINISTER:
It really will be because we...
CARLTON:
... going to tell me it will be a responsible budget next, won't
you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, it will be an A+ budget.
CARLTON:
Okay.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well if you, I mean, what are the indicators? Inflation, interest
rates, employment, growth, investment. Now on all of those fronts
we have done extremely well and on all of those fronts we've
either equalled or exceeded what we committed ourselves to two years
ago.
CARLTON:
We had a $1.3 billion trade deficit just a couple of days ago.
Exports up by 5% - that's not good.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, look, the current account is under a little more pressure and
that makes it all the more necessary to have a strong budget deficit
policy, if I can put it that way, or a strong fiscal policy. You
need to balance the one against the other.
CARLTON:
What size is the budget surplus?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, I'm not going to get into that at the moment. I'll
leave that to Peter.
CARLTON:
Oh, go on, go on.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, now don't twist my arm, or tempt me, or provoke me.
But I'll leave that to the Treasurer.
CARLTON:
But you are going to deliver tax cuts at the next election?
PRIME MINISTER:
We are going to deliver more than tax cuts. We are going to deliver
an overall fairer taxation system. We are going to go to the next
election with a tax reform programme.
CARLTON:
Including a GST?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we obviously have under consideration a broad based indirect
tax in replacement of existing indirect taxes. And I want to say
two very definite things to people. There is no way that we would
bring in a general indirect tax on top of the existing indirect
tax system. If we were to bring in a broad based indirect tax, it
would be in replacement of existing indirect taxes like the wholesale
sales tax.
CARLTON:
And will you tax the candles as well as the birthday cake?
PRIME MINISTER:
Specifics!
CARLTON:
All right, let's move on. The waterfront. After all the upheaval,
disruption, legal battles, the possibility of a conspiracy, even
involving your Government, the Maritime Union is back on the wharves.
Was it all worth it? What have you changed?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think they are back. The last word I heard was that they
had agreed to go back with the existing security guards.
CARLTON:
There's now some hitch I.....
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, let's assume they go back and can I say I've never
wanted union members as such not to be on the wharves. This idea
that in some way this campaign is all about getting rid of the MUA
or getting rid of unions is wrong. The only two things I've
wanted and I still want, are a more productive waterfront and voluntary
unionism on the waterfront. They are the two things we want. They
are the two things...
CARLTON:
... but have you got them? After all this ...
PRIME MINISTER:
You haven't seen the end of this issue by a long shot yet.
It is much too early for people to be saying, "well, this side
won or that side lost". I will only ever regard a victory in
terms of the national interest as important, and if we can get out
of this a reformed, more productive waterfront, and freedom of association,
and I believe there is a much better prospect of getting that now
than what there was five or six weeks ago, then an enormous amount
for the Australian national interest will have been achieved. An
enormous amount.
CARLTON:
All right. A lot of reasonable people might find it hard to believe
that your Government or your senior public servants didn't
have this planned months in advance with Corrigan, and with full
knowledge of the Dubai training exercise and so on.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we've never made any secret of the fact that we wanted
waterfront reform. And ...
CARLTON:
We know that.
PRIME MINISTER:
But Mike, I'll answer that this way by saying that our conduct
in this whole thing has been guided by one very very simple proposition
and that is that committed as we are to waterfront reform, we will
obviously support and help and talk to people who have that same
goal, and we'll support attempts by companies to achieve waterfront
reform provided they act in accordance with the law.
CARLTON:
Well, they may not have acted in accordance with the law.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, that is being alleged and they are denying that.
CARLTON:
Ten judges, two courts, I mean, maybe...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, no. I am sorry, that is not right. What those judges have
done....
CARLTON:
Is it an arguable case?
PRIME MINISTER:
....is to uphold the interlocutory, or one of them made the interlocutory
order and the other nine have upheld it, although in the case of
the five judges of the High Court, they made a very significant
variation. The change that the High Court made to the Federal Court
decision was quite significant. What the Federal Court had done
was basically put their views about the Workplace Relations Act
ahead of their views about the Corporations Act. What the
High Court did was to say, you can't ignore commercial reality
and that meant quite a lot. But could I just go back to the Government's
position because that was a question you asked me. We have always
supported waterfront reform.
CARLTON:
We know that.
PRIME MINISTER:
And it follows from that that if a company says to the Government,
we want to achieve waterfront reform, of course the Government will
talk to that company.
CARLTON:
But if a company says to the Government, we're thinking of
hiring the SAS and teaching them to load trucks at Dubai, it's
a very different matter, isn't it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Peter Reith has answered that as the relevant and responsible Minister
and I have no reason to disbelieve anything Peter Reith has said
on the subject. Could I also say in relation to Dubai, leaving aside
who was involved in any of this, that and the other, what was wrong
with it? Is it a criminal offence in this country now for people
to be trained overseas and is it a criminal offence in this country....?
CARLTON:
Not at all. But...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I do think...
CARLTON:
But if you go down the...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no but I do think people have been verballed into believing
in some way that because there was some overseas training involved
that in some way that was a criminal offence. There is nothing wrong
with blokes leaving the army and pursuing a career elsewhere, and
as for denigrating people because they belonged to the SAS, I happen
to have a lot of respect for the SAS and I think most Australians
do. I think it's a badge of honour to have belonged to the
SAS, not a badge of dishonour.
CARLTON:
Some of the SAS seems to be saying at the moment they feel they
have been done over, and they're rushing off to television
programmes.
PRIME MINISTER:
I simply say again, if people have got allegations to make, let
them make them. If people have got documents to drop, let them drop
them. If they have got claims to make, let's have it. Let's
have the documents.
CARLTON:
Let it all hang out.
PRIME MINISTER:
Indeed.
CARLTON:
If Peter Reith didn't know, and he's denied it many times
and we must therefore believe that, what about your former Transport
Minister, John Sharp. He might have known a bit about this. Have
you asked him?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I haven't.
CARLTON:
You haven't?
PRIME MINISTER:
I have absolutely no reason to disbelieve anything that these people
have said about this.
CARLTON:
You haven't rung John Sharp?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I haven't.
CARLTON:
What about Dubai? Were you aware of this?
PRIME MINISTER:
No.
CARLTON:
Did you know Corrigan was going to scoop out his labour hire companies
and questions like that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Mike, look, there have been a lot of questions asked and answered
already about Dubai. We have stated a position. If people have got
evidence disproving that, let them produce the evidence and until
then, I am getting rather bored answering questions about it.
CARLTON:
All right. Your audience maybe getting bored listening to it.
PRIME MINISTER:
I think they are getting a bit bored.
CARLTON:
I want one more question on the waterfront, if I can.
PRIME MINISTER:
One more moment of boredom.
CARLTON:
It's this. With the great luxury of hindsight, and it is that,
the turmoil of this, the opinion polls everywhere, would you have
done it differently?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't regret anything the Government has done.
CARLTON:
Nothing?
PRIME MINISTER:
No. I think what the Government has done has been to set out quite
honourably to achieve a goal in the national interest and I never
thought for a moment it would be easy. The idea that you would bring
about a fundamental change in the work practices on the Australian
waterfront, involving as that does, changing the attitude of what
has been the most militant, self-centred union in Australia's
history, without any question, anybody who thought that that could
be achieved without some resistance and some difficulty knows nothing
about the industrial relations history of this country, and at the
end of the day, I believe that people will see what the Government
has done, what the National Farmers' Federation has done, what
the company has done as having been in the national interest.
Now you can criticise, as people have, and they have a right to
particular aspects, but let's go back to the central element.
We want waterfront reform. We want voluntary unionism. I have never
wanted to destroy the MUA. I have never wanted to push people out
of jobs just because they belong to unions. I mean, it is a cardinal
principle of our industrial relations law that people have a right
to join or not to join a union, and they should not suffer any discrimination
according to their choice.
CARLTON:
All right. Let's move on. Pure politics, read in tooth and
claw. Would you approve if the Liberals in Queensland do give preferences
to Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party ahead of the ALP?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, their position as I understand it, and I haven't spoken
to the Queensland organisation, bear in mind this is a state election.
I will obviously have discussions with the organisation regarding
the preferences in a federal election but I haven't involved
myself in this. My understanding at the moment is that they are
going to pick and choose according to the..
CARLTON:
From seat to seat.
PRIME MINISTER:
From seat to seat. It will depend a little bit on the individual
character of the candidate, I imagine. I mean, look...
CARLTON:
One of them is Chinese, for a start. One of your Liberal...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, I mean the character of the individual Labor and One Nation
candidates.
CARLTON:
Oh, I see.
PRIME MINISTER:
You've got to pay some regard to the personal views of Labor
candidates and just as in the Labor Party presumably pays personal
regard to the views of individual Liberal candidates. I mean, for
example in the last Federal election, in my seat I think and in
many other seats the Labor Party put the Liberal Party after Australians
Against Further Immigration. They did that in the Lindsay by election
too, which was a far more high profile thing and they did a preference
deal with the Australians Against Further Immigration.
CARLTON:
You're fence-sitting here though, aren't you? For example,
Peter Collins and Jeff Kennett say they wouldn't give One Nation
preferences in their states.
PRIME MINISTER:
That, in a Queensland election?
CARLTON:
No, in their own state elections. Kennett and Collins wouldn't
have a bar of One Nation. ALP would get preferences first.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think it's a little different when you're dealing
with a state election where there aren't likely to be any One
Nation candidates.
CARLTON:
You are fence-sitting a bit, aren't you? Are we just saying...
PRIME MINISTER:
No, look, you can say that. Look, my position on this is that elections
are a contest between the Labor Party and the Liberal Party and
it's a question of which of those two choices are made. I also
believe that the important thing for the Liberal Party to do is
to address a message and to talk directly to people who are thinking
of voting for One Nation. Most of the people who are attracted in
a transitory way to the One Nation Party are no more racist than
you and I are. Some are.
CARLTON:
I would have thought a lot.
PRIME MINISTER:
Some are, no, I repeat, some are but a lot of them are people who
are just feeling a bit aggrieved with life and they have been kicked
around and they think that she's got some kind of magical answer
which she hasn't.
CARLTON:
She doesn't like you. Have you seen that..?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, well I know that. I am aware of that.
CARLTON:
She put out a press release today which I find amusing and you
may, as well. "Hanson: Howard's Promise To Deliver
More Bad News. Record Foreign debt."
Sorry, where are we?
"Unemployment at 19 per cent". Is it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Really? I thought it was 7.9.
CARLTON:
Well, there you go. "Record foreign debt. Dubious trade
figures. Soaring crime, an ever-decreasing standard of living and
the importation of infectious diseases are just a few of John Howard's
favourite things".
PRIME MINISTER:
Well as for the last criticism, that sounds like a Labor Party
release.
CARLTON:
That's from Pauline.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I know. No, the point I am simply making to you, that's
the sort of criticism that's made of me by the Labor Party.
Now I think she is a very insubstantial, narrow-minded, limited
person who...
CARLTON:
Bigoted.
PRIME MINISTER:
On some issues she is bigoted, yes, but so is the Labor Party on
some issues. I mean, Kim Beazley, for example, supports compulsory
unionism on the Australian waterfront. Kim Beazley encouraged the
unionists on the Australian waterfront pickets to defy the orders
of the Supreme Court of New South Wales and Victoria.
CARLTON:
You're getting back to it now, aren't you?
PRIME MINISTER:
That's because I think it's relevant to the point you're
making. Look, I think she is bigoted and narrow-minded and I don't
think her policies offer anything and I would say to the people
who are attracted to her, the legitimate concerns you have can best
be answered by a Coalition Government without the disadvantage and
the baggage that accompanies One Nation, particularly her remarks
about Aborigines, which were wrong and prejudicial and also her
remarks about Asian immigration which were also wrong and prejudicial
and I made those remarks at the time.
CARLTON:
All right. We're about out of time however normally at this
time we would play a bit of classic rock'n'roll. All right.
Can you handle this?
PRIME MINISTER:
Only just!
CARLTON:
You can choose it today. We don't want to disappoint the audience.
Have you got a favourite?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, people say, what's your favourite? Look, like anybody
else there are 20 or 30 pieces over the years I have liked. I rather
like Dire Straits', "Walk of Life"
CARLTON:
Dire Straits?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
CARLTON:
Do you know the words? "Here comes Johnny with the power
and the glory".
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I didn't know that! I didn't know it.
CARLTON:
You'll learn, you'll learn.
PRIME MINISTER:
I didn't know it.
CARLTON:
And it's from an album called "Money For Nothing".
Did you realise that?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I wasn't aware of the "Money For Nothing",
no.
CARLTON:
All right. We'll play it. Thanks very much for coming in. Good
to talk to you. Good to seming in. Good
to talk to you. Good to see you.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good to see you.
CARLTON:
Prime Minister, John Howard, with I think an appropriate choice.
ENDS