E&OE...................................................
MITCHELL:
Mr Howard, tax reform. The Treasurer today says business tax reform
will not be immediate in your package, it will be rolling reform
instead. Why?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, there is a case for more fully involving the business community
in a consultative process leading to business tax reform and the
Treasurer's said that that is an for handling that issue. I
know that there are a lot of people in the business community who
are in favour of that approach because they want to be more directly
and more openly involved in a process of discussion with the Government.
MITCHELL:
But that must delay reform, tax reform to business.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, nobody is saying that there'll be no changes that involve
the business area. What the Treasurer is drawing attention to is
the possibility that we will do it in a staged approach.
MITCHELL:
How would that staging work?
PRIME MINISTER:
How it would work is involving the business community in an open
process of consultation according to some stated goals of change
and reform. I think you should wait, once again, until the entire
package comes out to see the framework of what we might have in
mind.
MITCHELL:
Yes I can understand that we need to wait but I guess the broad
picture is now painted by the Treasurer in the Financial Review
today that there will be personal tax cuts and a GST but not business
tax reform. Now surely that's one of the main points in doing
it is to stimulate business through business tax reform.
PRIME MINISTER:
What will be involved is a framework for business tax reform which
will involve a consultative process and it will be necessary for
the detail of that to be announced for people to get an idea of
how it's going to be handled.
MITCHELL:
And when will the consultation go on, through the next period of
Government?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, obviously it would go on with the business community from
the time the reform package has been announced.
MITCHELL:
But would you go to the next election with a business reform package
or just reform package for personal tax?
PRIME MINISTER:
We will go to the next election with a framework for reform covering
a whole area.
MITCHELL:
Would that be introduced in the next session of Parliament?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
MITCHELL:
For business?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the aim would be to get the whole lot introduced during the
next session of Parliament. Yes, that would be the goal, yes.
MITCHELL:
Well what's the Treasurer talking about? Is he going to put
personal tax first and then do business?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think the Treasurer is recognising that there is a desire on
the part of the business community to talk and consult about the
detail of some of this reform.
MITCHELL:
But there is also a desire for tax reform as quickly as possible.
Did they say...
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I understand that. Well let the people make a judgement when
the programme comes out will you.
MITCHELL:
When will that be?
PRIME MINISTER:
Quite soon.
MITCHELL:
Has it been delayed because of what's been happening around
Wik?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, not necessarily. We are still very well advanced. I am not
going to get tied down with time. I mean this isn't the place
nor time to sort of talking about precise times. It will be ready
soon and it will be released when it has been completed and it's
gone through the Party consultation process. But it hasn't
been unduly delayed by other events.
MITCHELL:
Okay, fair enough. I would suggest though that the business community,
certainly in this State, is waiting with some anxiousness for business
tax reform and that delaying it could be seen as negative.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well just wait and see what's in it will you, okay?
MITCHELL:
In other areas, but still related to tax, would you agree that
there is a bit of nervousness around the country at the moment.
There are doubts about how deep the Japanese problems are going
to be. The National Bank Consumer Survey shows confidence is down,
sales figures are bad. Are people a bit nervous about the state
of the world?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh people are definitely being affected by what's occurring
in Asia.
MITCHELL:
Given the nervousness and the uncertainty, is this the time to
add to that by introducing a GST?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Neil, if anybody blinks on tax reform now, if this Government
blinks on tax reform now, it's gone for a decade.
MITCHELL:
True.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that's the answer to your question because if people
blink now, and we are not going to blink, but if we were to, what
you would really be saying is that tax reform is too hard for Australia.
Now this idea of reforming a tax system has been around for years,
there's always a reason why now might not quite be the right
time isn't there? And if we walk away from it now it's
dead for the next decade and there'll be a whole new generation
of people federally who will have to deal with the problem because
if it is scuttled now it won't come back again in the active
political lifetime of most of the players on the Australian political
scene now. The Labor Party certainly won't do it. I mean they
are adopting the most incredibly negative backward-looking attitude.
One Nation is totally opposed to it. The Coalition is committed
to it.
I know that there is a degree of uncertainty caused by Asia but
that really is a reason to go ahead because if you think there is
nervousness now, if the Government looked as though it were losing
its nerve about reform that would increase the nervousness. The
business community would be very unhappy with that. The business
community would say, look this is no good, this is a Government
that's lost its nerve. They won't get any comfort from
the other side because they don't have any commitment to reform.
I think it is precisely because things are difficult in Asia that
we must press ahead with reform because Asia won't remain depressed
or in a weakened economic condition in debt forever and we need
to be as strong as possible when the Asian upswing takes place and
that means having a better tax system.
MITCHELL:
No blinking?
PRIME MINISTER:
No blinking on tax.
MITCHELL:
When....is there a possibility or is there a danger of Australia
going into recession?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, no, I don't. There is too much negative talk around at
the present time. There are too many visiting international spokesmen
on the economy who have responsibility to international financial
organisations and to nobody else who indulge themselves with doomsday
negative talk visiting other countries and they don't really
serve the interests of the organisations they work for and they
certainly don't serve the interests of this country.
MITCHELL:
Telstra.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
MITCHELL:
Are you committed to the sale?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes.
MITCHELL:
No blinking on Telstra?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I believe that the sale to the Australian public of the remainder
of Telstra as previously announced is a good policy. I said when
I announced it that there would be a social bonus that could be
made available out of the proceeds of the sale and that's a
very important element and the Government hasn't announced
what that social bonus is but we're having discussions with
a number of people including a number of our colleagues about it.
But the sale of Telstra is very much part of the debt retirement
structure and programme and profile of the Government.
MITCHELL:
How do you get it through? Senator Harradine's already talking
about blocking it, we've got the National Party, or individual
members of the National Party, talking about crossing the floor,
how do you get it through?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I guess we would put it up and see who votes for it. It's
already gone through the House of Representatives Neil.
MITCHELL:
But you agree you are going to have trouble getting it through
the Senate?
PRIME MINISTER:
You never know with the Senate until the last minute whether or
not you are going to get a Bill but it's our policy to do it
and we'll be proceeding with it and we hope that we can get
the necessary support from Senator Harradine.
MITCHELL:
Well, not only Senator Harradine but you own Coalition - will it
divide the Coalition?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I don't think in the end it's going to divide the
Coalition. People, as is the case with the Coalition, are expressing
a range of views, that often happens, nothing wrong with that.
MITCHELL:
But they are talking about crossing the floor?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well hang on, the people who have spoken about that have already
voted in favour of it. I mean....and I say that again, the people
who have spoken out on this issue are members of the lower House
and they have already voted for it.
MITCHELL:
Okay so....
PRIME MINISTER:
It's been, I mean it's been through the lower House.
MITCHELL:
Well, what about Senator Macdonald?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well let's wait and see.
MITCHELL:
But he's not lower House.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I know.....
MITCHELL:
[Inaudible] Sandy Macdonald......
PRIME MINISTER:
Well let's just wait and see. I don't think I remember
seeing him actually say that.
MITCHELL:
Well he says if he, he quoted in The Age today saying he'll
only support a further16% sale of Telstra.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well let's wait and see.
MITCHELL:
You've spoken to the....
PRIME MINISTER:
I talk to people everyday but I don't tell the rest of the
world who I talk to everyday but we'll be proceeding and we
want to get the Bill through. The social bonus that I talked about
of course was linked with the sale of the whole of the remaining
two thirds of Telstra.
MITCHELL:
The bonus, is there any link between the sale of Telstra and tax
reform?
PRIME MINISTER:
Only in a very indirect sense because if you sell Telstra over
time you reduce the amount of money that you have to pay interest
on and that money might be available to finance tax cuts.
MITCHELL:
Okay, will the tax cuts be contingent on Telstra's sale?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, they're not.
MITCHELL:
...[inaudible].. Telstra Mr Howard, in your discussions with Senator
Harradine about Wik and other matters, well Wik specifically, did
you discuss Telstra as well?
PRIME MINISTER:
Only in a very tangential way.
MITCHELL:
Do you think he'll support you?
PRIME MINISTER:
You'll have to ask him that.
MITCHELL:
I'll try but what do you think?
PRIME MINISTER:
That is a matter for him.
MITCHELL:
Hello Adrian, go ahead please.
CALLER:
Yes Prime Minister, look, first, a couple of points. Firstly I'd
like to congratulate you on the Wik decision, being able to get
that through. Now secondly, one of our problems is, I'm a,
you could say, migrant - I've got Sri Lankan ancestry. Now
I've got a problem with, basically, look I support Liberals
sort of economic sort of aspects of the Liberal system, but I have
a problem this time because I feel so much about the race issue
that I find it hard to support you John Howard when I don't
believe that you've made a big enough stand on these sort of
situations. I believe that in, by you saying things like, we should
debate immigration and that, I don't think, at this time, that
that's the sort of a ball that we should put out on the court
for everybody to play.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I don't agree you. I think one of the reasons why One
Nation has gathered support is that people in Australia have felt
over the years that they've been denied the opportunity of
talking openly about sensitive issues. I mean whenever you suppress
debate, whenever you intimidate people out of saying what they think,
you breed a resentment and you encourage those people to believe
that there's some kind of conspiracy to shut them up and One
Nation has fed on that. The best way to counter racism is to openly
debate issues. They've got to be debated in a moderate intelligent
fashion. When I say let's have a debate on immigration, my
contribution to that debate will be to say that as far as I'm
concerned Australia should maintain a racially non-discriminatory
immigration policy. We shouldn't choose people on the basis
of the colour of their skin or their ethnic background, we should
choose them on the basis of the contribution they make to Australia
subject to a component for refugees and family reunions.
MITCHELL:
Mr Howard, do you believe Kim Beazley's supporting One Nation?
PRIME MINISTER:
Kim Beazley supports One Nation's policies on a lot of issues.
His economic policies and One Nation's policies are closer
together than they are of course to the Coalition. I mean they're
both opposed to tax reform. They both sound as though they're
in favour of a backward looking approach to imports and exports.
MITCHELL:
Do you think he's going soft on them?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't know what he.....I mean I don't know. I do think
that he sought to exploit them to disadvantage us politically but
as a matter of a principle his policies in many areas are much closer
to those of One Nation than are the policies of the Coalition but
in reply to the gentleman, I think it's a huge mistake to say
that the Australian public is not mature enough to debate particular
issues and all that does is to breed resentment and a belief that
they, the public, is being told by the political elites of the nation:
"keep quiet, leave these difficult issues to us, we're
the only people mature enough to handle them, you're all a
bit ignorant and why don't you go away and leave it all to
us". Now it's that which has generated the sense of alienation
and resentment amongst many people and it's been part of the
fertile breeding ground of some of these odd alternative views.
CALLER:
.....policies are being reported today in more detail on New Zealanders
- restricting the numbers of New Zealanders coming into this country.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I haven't seen the details of that. Look we, in the
Coalition, understand there are concerns in some areas and we've
acted on them. I mean, we after all brought in the two year waiting
period for migrants getting welfare benefits. Mrs Hanson did not
support that proposal when it went through Parliament. We acted
in relation to giving people who had a knowledge of the English
language, some additional preference in getting to Australia but
we would never be stupid enough to go so far as to say you can't
come to Australia unless you can already speak English. That would
just have denied us some wonderful Australians. I mentioned some
of them, Sir Arvi Parbo, the late Victor Chang, indeed four or five
members of the Federal Parliamentary Liberal Party were born in
other countries, came to Australia without being able to speak a
word of English. Now it is national self-denial, it's a timid
frightened view of life, to say that we're not cosmopolitan
and open and sophisticated enough as a country to allow people in
who initially can't speak English.
MITCHELL:
Adrian, thank you for calling. Hi Matt, go ahead please.
CALLER:
Yes, Mr Howard, I've been listening to you on the radio for
a long time and reading lots of newspaper articles about this tax
reform. I just want to ask you one question; what is the hold-up?
PRIME MINISTER:
We're finishing the details. It's a very complicated
exercise and we've got to get the figures right and there is
a lot of debate and discussion inside the Government, particularly
between the Treasurer and myself and other senior Ministers, about
the final shape of the policy.
MITCHELL:
Is there disagreement within the Government?
PRIME MINISTER:
There's debate. There's no serious disagreement, but
Neil, this is a huge issue.
MITCHELL:
Well there's a huge expectation....
PRIME MINISTER:
I know that...
MITCHELL:
....get back to this business point. If you are going to do it
in stages rather than in one hit I think people will be surprised...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well just, I should say I think you should just wait and see. And
it won't be long but I'm not going to be pushed into a
corner on the time.
MITCHELL:
Are you at least willing to say whether it will be staged which
is a rolling reform....what the Treasurer's saying.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, let's wait and see the entire package when it comes
out and you'll, I'm sure, the business community in particular,
will be very pleased with it.
MITCHELL:
The Premier here in Victoria, Mr Kennett, said yesterday that he
had been approached by people to make a move to Canberra. Do you
want him up there?
PRIME MINISTER:
He's always welcome.
MITCHELL:
Have you got a comment on his leadership versus your style of
leadership?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, look I don't know whatever reasons people for wanting
different personalities at different times change. If Jeff wants
to come to Canberra he'll be very welcome but that's a
matter for him.
MITCHELL:
Have you ever talked to him about it?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think I've talked to him for several years about
it. I don't think I have, no.
MITCHELL:
But when you talked to him about it several years ago, were you
trying to get him there?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, he was making it plain to me why he would never come. He was
giving me some well chosen remarks about what a disastrous place
he thought it was.
MITCHELL:
... it wasn't over a car phone, was it?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, it was in person, over a drink.
MITCHELL:
The banks. There's a survey that's been done by, I think
it is KPMG, which shows that the banks are going to take one billion
dollars extr