E&OE............................
SATTLER:
I've got the Prime Minister on the line now. Good morning,
Prime Minister. You've had a few pretty nasty things said about
you in Parliament - how does this rate?
PRIME MINISTER:
I think it is the bottom of the barrel. He should apologise, Mr
Beazley should have the strength to force him to apologise. When
Mr Randall said something that he shouldn't have said, I got
him to apologise.
SATTLER:
How does this rate with that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, just as bad. I mean, I don't appreciate being accused
of racism. My family doesn't appreciate it, my friends don't,
they know it's wrong. I've got a pretty tough hide but
you've got to draw the line somewhere.
SATTLER:
Well he wasn't thrown out of the Parliament. Two of his colleagues
were, so how come?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look, that was the discretion of the Speaker. I'm not
responsible for the Speaker's behaviour. I don't give
the Speaker instructions. The Speaker is responsible for keeping
order and I'm not going to express a view either way about
what the Speaker has done. But just getting back to Mr Evans, I
mean, not only is it a highly offensive remark but it was based
upon a photograph and a report suggesting that I was sort of dancing
a jig because we won the Hindmarsh Bridge case. I was in fact dealing
with an entirely different issue and Mr Evans knew that because
he was present during the whole of Question Time. Now, I don't
want to spend a lot of time on this. I simply say again, it was
a baseless, provocative, inflammatory remark. When I think of this
whole native title debate, there are three ugly remarks that will
stay in my memory forever. One of them was a remark by Noel Pearson
that people supporting the native title bill were racist scum. Another
was a remark by Daryl Melham, a Labor frontbencher, likening the
opposition to membership of the Ku Klux Klan, and now we have this
absolutely appalling remark by Mr Evans.
Now he said that I was never so happy as when I'm bashing
black fellas. Now it's a terribly patronising, ugly way of
talking about indigenous people. It is of course very offensive
to me, but it really does highlight the weakness of Mr Beazley.
I mean, Mr Beazley asked me to do something about people in my party
who had said things he thought they shouldn't have said, and
I did so. I call on him to apply the same strength and the same
standard in relation to his own Deputy, in relation to Mr Melham
and to tell his party that in the interests of Australia, and Australia's
reputation, they've got to stop making these kind of remarks.
We will have a debate about native title if the Senate knocks back
the legislation.
SATTLER:
We'll have more than a debate about it, won't we?
PRIME MINISTER:
What else are you to do in a democracy where the Parliament can't
agree on what ought to be done, and the Constitution says that the
only way the law can come into effect is at a joint sitting of the
Parliament after a double dissolution. I mean, I want to make it
very clear, we are not going to be bullied out of making necessary
changes to the law in the interests of farmers, miners, indigenous
people and the entire Australian people and the Australian economy,
simply because people run around saying, "Oh, we can't
possibly have an election in which the native title issue is..."
SATTLER:
But Prime Minister, quite the contrary, surely the Australian people,
who you quite rightly say now are fed up with this issue, it's
been going on for years, surely they are now entitled to finally
decide the issue?
PRIME MINISTER:
Of course they are and I put yet another proposition to the Labor
Party this morning, which I think offers them an honourable way
out of this whole dilemma. I have said what the Senate should do
is pass the Bill as presented by the Government. It will inevitably
be challenged in the High Court. The Government will pay in full
for any High Court challenge, we will fund the High Court challenge
to our own legislation and we will ask the High Court in the normal
correct fashion - that's for the High Court to decide, we will
ask the High Court to expedite the hearing of a constitutional challenge
to our legislation.
SATTLER:
Okay. But I also make this point. Isn't it the Australian
electorate that should have the overriding say on this?
PRIME MINISTER:
Of course it should be. I mean...
SATTLER:
I mean, not the High Court?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the High Court has a right to determine the constitutionality
of anything and the point of funding a High Court challenge, Howard,
is that one of the objections that the Labor Party has had to our
Bill is that they argue that it's unconstitutional. Now if
they argue it's unconstitutional, well let that issue be resolved,
but...
SATTLER:
You must be pretty confident you'd win in the court then?
PRIME MINISTER:
We are confident but you never know. But I have to accept that.
I'm a citizen of Australia and I have no greater rights in
relation to the constitutionality of things than the next person,
but I am perfectly happy for the constitutionality of the Bill to
be determined by the High Court. But look, we are the Government.
We...
SATTLER:
Exactly.
PRIME MINISTER:
When we went to the people at the last election, one of our policies
was to amend the Native Title Act to make it more workable. We then
were given this Wik decision that went much further than anybody,
including Mr Keating and many Aboriginal leaders expected...
SATTLER:
That's right. Now we are surely entitled to vote on your response
to that.
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, the Australian people are entitled to have the response of
the Government they elected two years ago on that issue and that
is what I have been endeavouring to do. But because I don't
have a majority in the Senate, we have had this intolerable delay.
Now at the end of the day, if the Senate does not pass the legislation,
well, it will be grounds for a double dissolution and the Australian
people - as should be the case in a democracy - will ultimately...
SATTLER
Well if they don't pass it, I mean, you're not going
to hang around waiting for, you know, time to just go by are you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Look, I'm not going to speculate on yours or any other program
as to when the election might be. I simply say that if they don't
pass it, it becomes a potential trigger, a trigger for a potential
double dissolution, because the only way I can change the law, and
the Government can change the law, in accordance with our election
undertaking if they don't pass it, is to have a double dissolution.
SATTLER:
Now are you worried that some of these remarks, which we've
been talking about this morning, which are quite extreme - I don't
mind saying that - are going to possibly incite violence in the
community, and especially around an election? I mean, they are pretty...they're
baiting people, aren't they?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they are baseless, provocative, quite irresponsible remarks,
and for a former foreign minister, it is doubly reprehensible.
SATTLER
Well I notice your Foreign Affairs Minister this morning says that
this is going to damage our international image.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that kind of language is always counter-productive to the
image, but we are a civilised, very democratic, very tolerant society,
and part of that civilised, tolerant, democratic character is that
people in public office should use restraint in the language.
SATTLER:
Now the other thing too - Hindmarsh Bridge - the people didn't
like the decision there who wanted the High Court to vote, or if
you like, give their determination in their favour. Now they say
they're going to go to an international court on this and other
native title issues. I mean, who is going to be ultimately running
this country, someone overseas or you?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we are. It's the Government who runs the country subject
to the will of the people, and can I just say, there are no international
courts that can tell us what to do in relation to native title issues
and we certainly won't be taking instructions from any foreign,
overseas, or other body external to Australia. The High Court has
said the Hindmarsh Bridge legislation is lawful, it is constitutional.
We always knew that, we always said that, and we have wasted millions
and millions of dollars on this farce.
SATTLER:
Yeah, dead right about that. Have you been personally hurt by these
racial insults?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't like them. I mean, I'm a pretty tough character,
I don't like being...my family doesn't like it, my children
don't like it, but you endure....
SATTLER
Have they said that to you, have they?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well not...they don't like any of these things, of course
they don't, but they don't...you know, they're very
sort of understanding that in politics these things happen..
SATTLER:
But, I mean, they don't have people coming up in the street,
or wherever they are, and saying "your Dad is a racist"
- do they?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well look, I don't know. My kids are very supportive of, and
protective towards me, and I'm not sort of asking for any sympathy.
I accept that in politics there's a lot of give and take and
I don't mind that. I am more concerned about the capacity of
these sorts of remarks to inflame a difficult situation...
SATTLER:
That's what I was talking about, that's the big worry
isn't it, in an election where this would be a major issue?
PRIME MINISTER:
Let's just say again - the irresponsible remarks so far have
come from the other side, and I have made it very plain to my colleagues
that I don't want any language of this kind used and if anything
is said that shouldn't be said, I will jump on it. Now I ask
Mr Beazley to apply the same standard, the same discipline, the
same strength to his own side. He can't control his party on
this issue. The tactics on native title have been run by Mr Melham
and by Mr Evans. In the Senate you've got Senator Faulkner
and Senator Ray running a separate agenda, and I mean, if he had
any real strength, what he would do is call Gareth Evans in and
say, look mate, you gaffed, we all know that, go out and apologise
and let's get on with attacking the Government on policy issues.
But you don't get that.
SATTLER:
All right Prime Minister, we'll leave you there, have a good
weekend.
ENDS