E&OE....................................................
CORDEAUX:
Prime Minister, how are you?
PRIME MINISTER:
I am very well.
CORDEAUX:
What's your comment on Senator Harradine's - what seems
to be a rethink, what seems to be as he put it, he has blinked?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well Senator Harradine did approach me last week and during the
course of that discussion he said he wanted to put forward some
kind of compromise. You have got to remember that what we put forward
is already a compromise. I haven't got anything from him yet,
I'll obviously have a look at it but there are some basic issues
involved for us. I will naturally have a look at what he is going
to put forward when it arrives. It will need to come fairly soon
because we are running out of time on this issue. I don't think
it is fair to say, based on what he said to me last Friday, that
he has "blinked" in relation to the right to negotiate.
I don't quite know what he means by that but I like Senator
Harradine, I respect the strength of feeling he has on this issue.
We, of course, feel very strongly about it too. We want a regime
which doesn't give special privilege to one section of the
community. We have already compromised a long way. People should
remember that our Bill is not an ambit claim - it's already
a compromise. I will obviously talk to him and see precisely what
he has in mind.
CORDEAUX:
When was the last time you spoke to him?
PRIME MINISTER:
Last Friday. He rang me and we had quite a lengthy discussion.
CORDEAUX:
And did he give you any idea then that he was about to do a re-think?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, he wants to talk further about it and he is going to put
a proposal to me. It's not, in my judgement, it's not
right to say that it represented an acceptance of our position,
on the right to negotiate. It was an indication on his part of a
desire to talk further and see if a further compromise could be
achieved. I reply, both privately and publicly, by saying that we
have already compromised a long way. And people have made the mistake
all along in relation to us on this issue of thinking that the Bill
we've put forward is some kind of ambit claim.
CORDEAUX:
Well, quite clearly if you look at the Queensland election people
want their Governments to be fairly strong on some things and I
would think land rights and Wik would be one of them.
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think there is any doubt about that. This mess has
been around now for a number of years. We had a mandate to fix it.
The Labor Party, the Democrats, the Greens and thus far Senator
Harradine have combined to stop us doing what the public asked us
to do at the last election and that is fix this native title mess.
Now we've been trying to do that for over two years and we
have been very badly frustrated by the Labor Party and the Democrats
and the Greens and Senator Harradine in relation to that. Now Senator
Harradine has shown, unlike the Labor Party and the Greens and the
Democrats, a willingness to talk about the matter further. Now we'll
talk further and at this stage I don't think I can say any
more about it. There is really nothing more that can be said.
CORDEAUX:
How much of a shock to you was that Queensland State election result?
PRIME MINISTER:
The One Nation vote was much bigger than I expected but it doesn't
entirely surprise me. At a time of economic and social change people
do feel vulnerable and if somebody comes along and says, look I've
got all of the solutions, don't ask me to go into any detail
but I can fix all of your problems overnight, then it's easy
to sort of follow that and there has been quite a lot of that with
One Nation. As time goes by the emptiness of their policy prescriptions
will become more apparent. They will cease to be a novelty on the
Australian political scene. They will have to in the Queensland
Parliament take positions, vote on legislation, put forward arguments
and people will see that there is nothing magical, there is nothing
mystical about members of the One Nation Party and they will be
judged like others. In other words, do they have real solutions
or do they have no solutions at all?
CORDEAUX:
After that election I was amazed to hear people talking about oh
the reason was the sale of Telstra and tax reform. Unbelievable
really, I mean it's about land rights, reconciliation, Sorry
Day, Wik, multiculturalism, dumping of subsidised foreign imports,
political correctness, the Aboriginal industry, that's what
all of that's about.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I certainly don't think the predominant issues were tax
reform and the sale of Telstra. I think there was a feeling built
up under the 13 years of the Labor Government of oppressive political
correctness that if you deign to talk about issues like immigration
you were told that you were a racist, that you were prevented from
engaging in a lot of the open and full debate that we ought to have
within our community. I think it is very easy after an event to
rationalise, but the important thing is to keep asking yourself
if you are a serious political participant, what is good for the
future of the country and that is what we are doing. We are arguing
the cause of tax reform because we think that will make a better
Australia. It will make us more competitive, it will rid us of a
system that is unfair. The present system is unfair and I believe
over the weeks ahead advertising campaigns will highlight the weakness
and the unfairness of the system.
CORDEAUX:
When you talk about tax reform, reform is a kind of a word that
could mean absolutely anything. It could mean that somebody turns
around and could be a loser out of that reform. Surely tax relief
is a better way to describe it and I am sure that's what it
involves?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there'll certainly be personal tax relief but what we
want to do is to change the whole system to make it fairer. We don't
intend to put a goods and services tax on top of the existing taxes.
A goods and services tax would replace existing taxes so that you
are not adding to the overall tax burden. There would also be personal
income tax relief. One of the advantages of a goods and services
tax as distinct from the existing wholesale sales tax system is
that it takes a burden off exporters and particularly in the context
of debate about what is good and bad for the rural parts of Australia.
The present tax system is a very heavy penalty on rural exporters
because it makes them less competitive when they sell their products
overseas. One of the strongest arguments in favour of tax relief,
change reform, whatever you call it where you place existing indirect
taxes like the wholesale sales tax with a broad based tax like goods
and services tax is that it will make our exporters more competitive
because there won't be any input taxes on their exports and
that makes.....
CORDEAUX:
There aren't going to be any losers I wouldn't think?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well the tax cheats will lose and I don't think anybody will
mind about that but certainly middle and low income earners will
find themselves better off as a result of the package. And certainly
people in rural Australia will be beneficiaries and they will see
when the package comes out that the Coalition parties once again
are the best friends that the people in the rural and regional Australia
have got.
CORDEAUX:
Well here you are out selling it and Stan Wallis is putting dollars
behind it and John Singleton is putting whatever behind it. I am
surprised that it is so easy when everyone is going to win it except,
as you say, the crooks.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I think like all of these things, Jeremy, it needs to be...the
detail needs to be out there. It's very easy to run a fear
campaign when you don't have all of the detail and it's
not possible by reference to the details of the package to rebut
the criticism. But inevitably in the lead-up to the release of something
you get this period where the critics run around generating all
sorts of fear but when the details come out people will see the
sense. People will realise just how unfair the present system is
as a result of what is going to be said over the weeks and months
ahead about the weaknesses of the present system and with the details
in their hands and I do ask people to suspend judgement until they
see it. And I also ask people who care about the future of Australia
to accept that we are living in a difficult world. The turbulence
in Asia would have hit us a lot harder if we hadn't put our
economic house in order and the next logical thing to do is to change
the taxation system.
CORDEAUX:
Prime Minister, I just want to get a reaction on two things. One
is the advertisement in the paper put in by the entertainment industry,
do you have a comment on what you might be able to do to, what appears
to be in many peoples' eyes, keep the Australian industry alive?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we are looking at the implications of that High Court decision
and we are asking the ABA to, in effect, draft a new standard, a
new code if you like, and until that new code has been drafted then
the existing situation, the present situation, which does not count
New Zealand as part of Australian content that that is going to
remain in place while that new code is being drafted.
CORDEAUX:
So it is not really going to be major surgery just to put in what
is a minor adjustment to protect the local product?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the decision that was taken, we obviously, because it's
a court decision, we either pay regard to that court decision or
alternatively if we want to negate it we have to renegotiate the
arrangement with New Zealand. I think it's a question of seeing
what comes out of the ABA review and also bear in mind that until
that has been completed the existing arrangements continue and I
think it's important and I do understand the concerns of people
in the entertainment industry, I also understand the interests of
consumers. They have an interest in this as well and, of course,
the television stations have some interest as well. So there are
a lot of rights to be considered and what we have done is to ask
the ABA to have a look at putting together a new set of principles,
a new standard, and then when we have the result of that we'll
be able to say more but until that has been completed the existing
arrangements will continue.
CORDEAUX:
One more thing Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Sure.
CORDEAUX:
The speculation about the tax [inaudible]. I don't know whether
it has actually come from the tax office or somebody's just
stirring the pot but Frank Guildford who was, I don't know
whether you are across the case, the blood money from Saudi Arabia
and the gift of a million dollars for the Adelaide Women's
and Children's hospital. It seems that he might be caught up
in some aspect of the capital gains tax?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don't know all the details of his tax affairs and bear
in mind that I can't really find anything out about it and
I don't want to because that would be a breach of the privacy
provisions of the Tax Act. I mean as I understand it he got $1.7
million and $1 million has been donated to a hospital and that could
be tax deductible but I don't know because I don't know
all of the details. And if some money is being retained by him then
perhaps the existing provisions of the tax law would operate in
a way in relation to that but really I can't answer for the
tax rights of every individual tax payer and it is just not possible
for the Prime Minister or the Treasurer to be across the detail
of every individual's taxation affairs. I don't know all
the details of it and I really do think I can do none other than
say, well the law will treat him in exactly the same way as it would
treat any other Australian. You can't make a law on the run
for individuals. I don't know what sort of advice he got from
his lawyers when the matter was being discussed. I am very sympathetic
to his position in relation to what was obviously a terrible thing
that happened to his sister and I am very sympathetic towards the
man on those grounds alone, and I know all Australians are, but
presumably he got some legal advice when the matter was being discussed.
I don't know what that legal advice is. Presumably he was told
that if he did this there'd be a certain tax consequence, if
he did something else there'd be another. I don't know
what that is, and I have to say in relation to that that I can't
answer your question because I am not across the detail. I can't
be across the detail because I am not entitled to see the affairs
of individual tax payers and neither I should and I can only say
that it is a matter between him and his lawyers and the taxation
office. And whilst expressing continued sympathy with him for the
terrible family loss he suffered, I can't really take the matter
any further.
CORDEAUX:
So they ........[inaudible] capital gain or compensation?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think that is a matter that you'd have to get legal
advice on and I imagine that he would of got legal advice on that
when the matter was being negotiated. But once again that is a matter
over which, you know, I can't answer because I am just not
in possession of the detail.
CORDEAUX:
It looks like we are moving away from the idea of an early election?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I haven't ever at any stage said when the election was
going to be. There has been speculation about an early election
and people have made certain assumptions. I have never said when
the election is going to be. If there is to be a double dissolution
then that has to, the Parliament has to be dissolved, by not later
than the 29th of October so that the election is held within, I
guess, four to five weeks after then which is a normal time but
if you don't have a double dissolution then the Parliament
can run on until well into the first half of next year. Now, I have
never said that there was going to be an early election. Equally,
I have never ruled it out and people have made surmises based on
what's occurring in Asia. They have said, well you'll
have to do this, you'll have to do that. I have been a very
interested bystander in all that comment like every other Prime
Minister before me. I'll keep my options open. I'll choose
a time that is in the best interests of the country. I'll obviously
pay regard to Australia's interests and obviously as leader
of the Government I have a responsibility to pay regard to the Government's
interests as well. But, of course, Australia's interest takes
paramount. We still have a number of months to run in our term.
On the other hand if a double dissolution becomes necessary then
that double dissolution has got to take place before the 29th of
October and the election takes place within four or five weeks thereafter.
Now that's the, I guess, the ballpark. I haven't made
any decision. Nothing that's really happened over the last
few weeks, including the Queensland election, has altered the position.
I think if, in case it's in your mind in relation to opinion
polls, I think it was inevitable after the Queensland election and
in the wake of all the publicity that One Nation received, it was
inevitable that One Nation would get a boost in the polls and that
will stay around for a while because it's had such a surge
of publicity and it's a new player on the field. It's
a bit of a novelty but that will wear off and a better gauge of
public opinion will be further down the track and I don't think
people should see what's around at the moment as a totally
reliable indicator of what might occur when a ballot actually takes
place. But I don't take, react complacently to what occurred
in Queensland. I've said that before, I take it very seriously.
CORDEAUX:
But if that Morgan Bulletin poll is right, there wouldn't
be much point in a double dissolution because it's hard to
get all the things that you want to get through in a joint sitting
of the House, you just mightn't have the numbers according
to that poll.
PRIME MINISTER:
It's very important with polls, Jeremy, to remember that in
a time like this they can be very volatile. One Nation has had saturation
coverage over the last ten days. It would have been quite extraordinary
in those circumstances if its ratings had not gone up. Once the
political agenda changes and publicity is given to other issues
than I would expect that there'd be some change. But I don't
discount what has occurred in Queensland but I do remember that
only four or five weeks ago Newspoll, which has had a very good
track record, had our level of support back to where it roughly
was at the time of the last election. So there's a lot of volatility
and think it's very important when people analyse polls and
when they react to them to bear that volatility in mind and when
you have the saturation coverage that One Nation has had over the
past couple of weeks it would be quite astonishing if its support
had not gone up. Absolutely astonishing. Remember when Mrs Kernot
changed parties? The saturation of coverage that she received and
there were all sorts of polls indicating this or that outcome. Now
a lot of that has subsided. I don't align the two completely.
I think there is a sense of bewilderment and a sense of vulnerability
in the community which is the foundation of some of the One Nation
support. I recognise that and I intend over the weeks and months
ahead to respond to that as best I can but I do think we should
keep a sense of balance and perspective about polls taken in the
weight of absolutely saturation coverage
CORDEAUX:
[Inaudible} One Nation is way over there on the right, but surely...
PRIME MINISTER:
Well it is on some issues. It's a funny situation. It's
policies on tax reform are the same as the Democrats and the Labor
Party. It doesn't want tax reform. It's opposed to it.
It's being just as negative on tax reform for example as the
Democrats and the Labor Party.
CORDEAUX:
Yeah, well I'm not sure they even understand exactly what
the word, what the tax reform issue....(inaudible)... and against
that?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well they are. I've not heard anything from them to suggest
that they're not also against tax reform like the Labor Party.
It's very hard to neatly label them on the political spectrum.
You might say they're on the right on some issues, in relation
to other issues that may not be the case but....
CORDEAUX:
Would you work better with them in the Senate, better than the
Greens and the Democrats?
PRIME MINISTER:
Oh, look I think that is with respect a completely hypothetical
question. I mean the Greens and the Democrats on important issues
have been very difficult although on industrial relations the Democrats
did give us some assistance. On Wik for example they've been
obstructive. The Greens and the Democrats were more accommodating
to Labor when it was in office than they have been to us. Obviously
it's difficult for a Government, a centre-right Government
such as the Coalition to be dealing with Democrats and Greens who
are, on many issues, far to the left of us. Not only on economic
but also many other issues. On the other hand there are many of
the policies of One Nation, if it had Senators, that I would find
difficult to work with. I'm not going to start picking and
choosing between them. Obviously I want in any election, be it a
double dissolution or a half-Senate election, I want the maximum
number of Coalition Senators. I mean the people who are most obstructive
to us, remember at the end of the day, are the Labor Party because
they almost always vote against us.
CORDEAUX:
Prime Minister, next time we talk I guarantee to have better lines
of communication some how. I just want you to know I don't
think it's at our end.
PRIME MINISTER:
No, well I don't, I'm not sure where it is either and...
CORDEAUX:
Thank you for bearing with us.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, anyway look I appreciate that. Thanks very much and I gather
you had a very nice holiday at Hamilton Island.
CORDEAUX:
It was wonderful.
PRIME MINISTER:
That's terrific, you make me envious.
CORDEAUX:
Look after yourself.
PRIME MINISTER:
Okay, thanks, bye bye.
[ends]