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CORDEAUX:
It is with great pleasure that we welcome the Prime Minister of
Australia John Howard. Good morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Jeremy.
CORDEAUX:
Nice to talk to you. Now, this backflip of Mal Colston's.
I took it that you had it more or less in the bag. Was it is a total
surprise when he voted against the Bill?
PRIME MINISTER:
No it wasn't. At no stage did he promise that he would. We
hoped he might. Some of his behaviour indicated that he might, but
we've got this on-going problem in the Senate. We've had
one hand tied behind our back ever since we were elected two-and-a-quarter
years ago and that is we're in a minority in the Senate and
we never know until the last minute whether we are going to get
vital legislation through and this was no exception. But we are
not daunted. We will try again, because this is a good policy for
Australia. If we can sell the rest of Telstra we can massively reduce
the Federal Government's debt and we'll have the money
to provide much needed communications facilities for rural Australia.
CORDEAUX:
I'm sure government was never meant to be easy but I'm
sure it wasn't meant to be this hard. In retrospect, should
you perhaps have gone a little bit easier on Mal Colston, maybe
accepted his vote, maybe buttered him up a bit?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we were supportive of his nomination at Deputy President
back in 1996, but I don't want to comment on his court case.
I don't think it is fair that people comment. And one of the
things that should be said is that the personal vitriol that's
been heaped on him by the Labor Party has been quite disgusting.
I've never read such malicious hateful language for years,
and I just can't believe that politics should be conducted
in this country in that fashion. We'll continue to talk to
Senator Colston. He's got concerns about services in Queensland
and that's legitimate he's a Senator for Queensland.
I'm going to try through my Minister, Senator Alston, to talk
to him again. We'll certainly put the legislation back. We
don't get anything the first time around in the Senate. We
don't get anything at all of any consequence the first time
around in the Senate. And the Australian public is being treated
to another example of just how difficult it is when you have a Government
with one hand tied behind its back. But we'll continue to pursue
good policies for the country and this is certainly one of them.
CORDEAUX:
Well Richard Alston said that you would only bring the Telstra
sale bill back to the Senate before the next election if it was
assured of success. How could you be assured of success?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, this is something that we would have to talk about with the
Senator and with others, and we're continuing on with our plans
to release the tax policy when it is completed, and the suggestions
that in some way the defeat of Telstra bill over the weekend has
upset our election plans assume that there were election plans.
Well, election plans are news to me. I haven't decided when
the next election is going to be. It could be as late as March or
April of next year, or it could be earlier.
CORDEAUX:
I read all of that. You know, "Howard loses early poll momentum"
and all the rest of it. I would have imagined that if you had a
gut feeling for the way in which the people of Australia are thinking,
that a mandate from the people of Australia as soon as possible
for the sale of Telstra will be just what the doctor ordered.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, exactly. I mean, there is absolutely no reason why we couldn't
go to the next election with this policy, which we will if we don't
get it through before then, saying that if we are re-elected we
will try and sell the remaining two-thirds of Telstra and use the
proceeds to massively reduce Australia's national debt and
spend a small part of the proceeds on much needed communications
improvements in rural Australia. And if we win the election we will
go back to the Senate and say the Australian public has given us
a mandate, and we'll say to the Labor Party in the Senate,
don't you now have an obligation to respect the wishes the
Australian public and to pass the legislation. And we'll just
keep trying until we succeed and given that we don't have a
majority in the Senate, that is all we can do. And I want the Australian
public to know that we do not intend to be put off from trying by
the obstructionist tactics of the Labor Party and the Democrats
and the Australian Greens in the Senate.
CORDEAUX:
Mal Colston seems to hang his rejection of the Bill on broken promises
after the sale of one-third of Telstra. Do you know what he is talking
about?
PRIME MINISTER:
We've had those concerns investigated and the information
I have is that about 95% of the commitments that were made late
in 1996 have been honoured, but we'll obviously examine that
further and I want him to know that we are concerned to ensure that
all of the commitments that were made by Telstra are honoured in
full.
CORDEAUX:
It's obvious that you're keen to mend some fences in
the bush and to win the bush, to win rural Australia back again.
Now that you've sort of offered a whole lot of goodies',
if the sale of Telstra had gone through, there's quite an expectation
there, isn't there? That's not going to go away easily.
Even if you can't get this thing through, there's going
to be, I guess what I'm saying is, maybe you've exacerbated
the discontented instead of placating them?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think so Jeremy. One of the goodies', as
you call it, that was announced last week was the new digital phone
service. Now that will go ahead quite independently of the sale
of the two-thirds of Telstra. That's something that's
being funded by Telstra itself. The tax package will be very good
for the Australian bush and I ask rural people to have a very careful
look at the taxation package and they will find that what we're
offering in that area is more beneficial to them than is being offered
by the Labor Party or One Nation, who appear to have formed an unholy
alliance to oppose not only the sale of Telstra, but also taxation
reform.
CORDEAUX:
Well will your inability - maybe inability- to sell Telstra, how
is that going to effect the tax package?
PRIME MINISTER:
Jeremy, it doesn't effect it at all.
CORDEAUX:
Not at all?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, there's been a mistaken claim that in some way the tax
package was based on the sale of Telstra. It's not.
CORDEAUX:
Well certainly the ratings, international ratings agencies are
going to react probably adversely to Australia to the knock-back
in the Senate.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, what the rating agency was doing was saying that it would
be good for the Australian economy if two-thirds of Telstra were
sold, and it's right. It would be good for the economy because
we'd be able to massively reduce the Federal Government's
debt and we'd be able to start the 21st century
virtually free of Federal Government debt. Now that is a tremendous
boost because when you have less debt you don't have such a
high interest bill and the money you would otherwise spend on interest
you spend on schools, and roads, and hospitals, and public services.
And the people who are voting down the sale of Telstra are really
voting for less expenditure on schools, and roads, and hospitals.
CORDEAUX:
You're pretty sure that the vast majority of people in Australia
want the sale of Telstra. Why not go to the people earlier rather
than later and get this whole thing...I mean it must be hell
of a frustration for you personally. PRIME MINISTER:
Well there's no guarantee though, Jeremy, even if we went
to an election in which you fought it entirely on one or two issues.
There's no guarantee, that even if we win that election, that
we can then get the legislation through the Senate.
CORDEAUX:
Yeah, but they'd knock it back at their peril surely.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, they didn't adopt that attitude after the last election.
We went to the last election promising to sell one-third of Telstra.
We won that election overwhelmingly and immediately the Labor Party
and the Democrats said we don't care about the verdict of the
Australian people. We will frustrate and delay and destruct the
Government's programme.
CORDEAUX:
So what's your thinking on the election timing now?
PRIME MINISTER:
Jeremy, I haven't made up my mind. We can have the election
as late as May, of April or May of next year. It could be earlier.
It could be before the end of the year. I have not made up my mind,
and I just say again that all those claims that I had a plan to
go at this or that time, they were not plans that were based on
anything I'd said, or anything I'd decided. I want to
have the election at the right time for the country. We will of
course release our tax package before the election is called and
we will of course give people a reasonable time to have a look at
the taxation package before we call the election. Because we want
time to explain its benefits to all sections of the Australian community
and there will be benefits for families, there will certainly be
benefits for rural Australia and there will be an overall benefit
for the Australian economy because it will be a fairer system.
CORDEAUX:
Yeah. I see that in The Australian today the unions are
talking about a vow to campaign against the GST. That there is a
definite threat that the union movement would force a wages break
out if a goods and services tax was introduced.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, such a break out would only be justified if workers were
worse of as a result of our tax reform. Workers will not be worse
off as a result of our tax reform and I'd say to trade unionists
in Australia: before allowing your unions to waste your union dues
on partisan political campaigns, have a look at our tax package,
calculate the benefits and then say to the union delegate, "don't
you dare waste my money trying to stop something that will help
me".
CORDEAUX:
Yes, well that's provided the unions don't want to play
politics, if the unions want to represent the best interests of
their members as opposed to the best interests of the opposition.
PRIME MINISTER:
All I'm asking is that trade unionists have a look at what
is in the policy. If they believe they are going to be worse off,
well, they are therefore entitled to campaign against it, but no
reasonable man or woman will be able to conclude that after they've
looked at the package.
CORDEAUX:
So you've got a Cabinet meeting today and tomorrow and the
word around is that the tax package is very very close to being
released. Would you comment on that?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I never comment on what Cabinet discusses. We are well advanced
on the tax package but there's still work to be done, and I
won't fix on a date for release until everything has been completed.
CORDEAUX:
How is it shaping up?
PRIME MINISTER:
It's shaping up very well, and the Australian public will
like it. It won't be revolutionary but it will certainly be
new and different and fairer. It involves a lot of political commitment
and courage but my responsibility is to do things that I believe
are good for the country, not things that are politically beneficial
to me things that are very good for Australia. And that's
what I'm trying to do, and I'm ignoring those who say
"don't take risks, don't do anything". That's
not the way to win support in the Australian community.
CORDEAUX:
No, I think that you got a great vote for change and for action
at the last election.
PRIME MINISTER:
There would have been - we certainly did - and there would have
been a lot more change earlier if we hadn't have had an obstructive
Senate. I mean, look how long it took us to get the Wik legislation
through, and I want to thank Senator Harradine for the very constructive
role that he played, and he also played a constructive role in relation
to the Telstra legislation. Senator Harradine takes the wholly legitimate
view for an independent for a minor party person in the Senate,
that the Government of the day has a right to expect passage of
the legislation which is central to its programme, and he's
always tried to cooperate in that fashion. The Labor Party on the
other hand takes a blindly obstructive view. It's not supported
us on any major issue. It's opposed us on Native Title, it
opposed us on Telstra, it opposed all the measures we took to clean
up the budget deficit we inherited. Now, that's playing politics,
it's not paying any regard to the national interest.
CORDEAUX:
I saw one report on the weekend that said you would rather resign,
that you were quite prepared to put your job on the line over tax
reform. What's the context of that remark?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, the context of that remark is that if the political path
for me is to do nothing, in order to allegedly win political popularity,
well, I'm unwilling to do it. I mean, I am not going to....
CORDEAUX:
... going to say that tax reform, that tax relief is unpopular,
I mean, that would be silly.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, of course it would be silly to say that. But there's
a view in the community that tax reform equals only a goods and
services tax. Now, that view is wrong but until our package comes
out, people are not going to be persuaded that it's wrong.
When our tax package comes out they will see that the GST replaces
other indirect taxes, they will see that personal tax has been cut,
they will see tax benefits for people with families, they will see
other changes that are beneficial to the Australian economy.
CORDEAUX:
Are you able to give me a clue on what sort of taxes - will you
get rid of payroll tax, capital gains tax, I guess the FID and BAD
and things like that. Are you going to completely clear the decks....?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't think anybody should be surprised if, for example,
the wholesale tax is completely abolished. I don't think anybody
should be the least bit surprised at that, but as to the others
I don't think I'll add to the speculation at this stage.
CORDEAUX:
There was a rumour that you were going to look after perhaps the
GST and personal tax and do something about corporate tax later
down the track?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, what we are going to do in relation to business tax is to
lay out a framework for change and involve ourselves in a process
of consultation. Once again, I don't think I'll add any
further to the speculation, but reforming the corporate tax structure
is part of the equation but we want to do it in a way that involves
the business community, particularly the small business community.
CORDEAUX:
Yes, I was talking on Thursday and Friday about this ATSIC conference
at Cable Beach that ended up costing the taxpayer $150,000 of the
salary, or the fee to Pat Dodson of something like a thousand dollars
a day, just for organising, just for getting it on paper I would
assume. I see that the Government is going to have a look at ATSIC
with regard to the way in which these conferences are charged for?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, John Herron is pursuing that. That kind of thing, if it is
true, is quite unacceptable. It makes people angry. That money would
be better spent on improving Aboriginal health than on conferences,
and John Herron has said that he is going to examine it, and I totally
support his efforts to do so.
CORDEAUX:
Well, I would imagine that this is just the tip of the iceberg.
I guess there are all sorts of other examples of profligate waste...?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, when we came into Government we put some auditing and accounting
procedures into ATSIC and we made savings of millions of dollars.
We were concerned about waste in that area. We were criticised but
we went ahead nonetheless and we have significantly reduce waste
in that area, just as we have in many other areas. We are saving
something like $27 million or $28 million a week through cracking
down on welfare fraud and we've done a very strong job in that
area because we understand the anger of people who are working hard
to paying their taxes, when they see the system ripped off by anybody,
and that is not just people in the ATSIC area but people in social
security generally. We are the representatives of the ordinary honest
taxpayer who wants that sort of thing stopped.
CORDEAUX:
Totally agree. Now you had a win with the cheaper CDs but as you
may have heard, I'm not sure whether you did or not in Macquarie
News at 8.30am, the entertainment industry or the recording industry
is prepared to launch a public relations campaign against your Government
at the election.
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, I'm aware of that and this is going to be a case of the
industry backed by the multinational companies fighting the Government
who's backing the interests of the ordinary Australian public.
We are on the side of cheaper CDs, we are on the side of greater
competition. This a particularly strong policy for young people,
but not just for young people, but young people are those in the
community who especially value their CDs and the opportunity to
have access to them at cheaper prices, and why shouldn't they.
You've got to remember that the present system has delivered
a stranglehold to the multinational companies. And all we are asking
for is competition, and as far as the local industry is concerned,
we understand their worries about adjusting to the new system, that's
why we are giving them $10million to help the local music industry.
I mean, we recognise that there is some adjustment involved and
we are prepared to provide them with $10 million over a period I
think of three years, to help them in that process of adjustment.
CORDEAUX:
Prime Minister I'm just looking at this wonderful picture
of you, I think at the ABC with Farouk...
PRIME MINISTER:
With Farouk!
CORDEAUX:
Tell me, are you really superstitious?
PRIME MINISTER:
No I'm not superstitious but I was struck by the humour of
it all. There was Farouk, he did have white socks, but he wasn't....
CORDEAUX:
But he was in the ABC!
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes, he was. But I didn't blame the ABC. The lady who got
me my morning cup of tea as a walked down was very charming and
she looks after Farouk everyday and it was a great shot and quite
an amusing incident.
CORDEAUX:
Jack Holder, who I think has written to you, he is a campaigner
to see to it that these sort of bills that Paul Keating passes onto
the taxpayer as a former Prime Minister, that there's some
sort of a feeling on the expenses of former Prime Ministers. Have
you thought about that anymore...?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we did make a change a couple of years ago. We put a limit
on the number of plane trips that all ex-politicians could take
in relation to their entitlement. There was previously an unlimited
entitlement and we put a limit I think of 25 trips a year. I believe
that former Prime Ministers are entitled to reasonable provision.
They have, after all, whatever their political views are, they have
served the country for a long period of time, but I obviously believe
that all former Prime Ministers, and all former Ministers should
exercise restraint and when they don't exercise restraint,
well, people are entitled to have a go at them.
CORDEAUX:
Prime Minister thank you for your time.