24 April 1997 TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER
THE HON JOHN HOWARD MP
INTERVIEW WITH FRAN KELLY AM PROGRAMME
E O E
FRAN KELLY:
Prime Minister, there have been claims that you haven't even read the proposal of the
Aboriginal negotiating team let alone considered it. What's causing the despondency
within the Aboriginal team.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that claim is wrong. Of course I've read it. I have spent the equivalent of
probably two or three full days, or more, with the leaders of the Aboriginal community
in Australia. I'm seeing them again. And I'd frankly be prepared to spend a week with
them to if I thought through the process of further sitting down I could find a fair and
acceptable solution. The plan that I've put forward represents a fair attempt by me and
by my Government to do justice to the Aborigines because it doesn't involve blanket
extinguishment of title, but also to deliver to the farmers of Australia something to
which they are clearly entitled and that is security and predicability and something
which they had every reason to believe would not even be questioned as a result of the
1993 Native Title Act and as a result of the assurances given by Paul Keating, by some
leaders of the National Farmers Federation three or four years ago and acknowledged
by some of the very Aboriginal leaders with whom I am currently negotiating. Now,
no person could have tried harder, no person will go on trying harder than I to get a
fair solution to this. And I have a responsibility to all Australians, not just to the
Aborigines, not just to the farmers, but I have a responsibility to all Australians. And I
want to reject emphatically and absolutely the suggestion that I have ignored the views
of the Aborigines. If I was indifferent to the Aborigines' views from day one I would
have said that what we will do with the Wik decision is to overturn it absolutely and go
back to the situation that people believed obtained after the 1993 Native Title Act.
The very fact that I have been willing to sit down and talk around these compromise
issues to seek an arrangement which is fair to the Aborigines but also delivers that
security, I think that is evidence of my and the bona fides of my Government.
FRAN KELLY:
But the Aboriginal negotiators say that you're 10 point plan is not fair. The National
Party has also dismissed that plan. Are you sticking by plan as it currently stands?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I certainly am. And Fran, I think we all know in these things that sometimes
things that are said publicly are expressed a little differently in private. I understand
the pressures on some of the Aboriginal leaders. I also understand the feeling of
despondency in rural Australia because the farmers of this country have had very tough
times. They feel they were misled by the former government. They were given a
highly impractical decision by the High Court of Australia. Now, I say that quite
deliberately. The Wik decision was highly impractical, and I'm disappointed in the
decision I said that on day one and it was a decision that went against the
expectations even of some of the more vigorous Aboriginal leaders. And some of
them have acknowledged to me that the decision was a surprise to them. Now, I
understand that. I'm not seeking to exploit that. But I want to make the point that we
are dealing with a situation where Wik overturned everybody's belief. And to the
extent that out of all of this an arrangement might be reached whereby some of the
Wik elements were preserved, then that obviously is something more than what many
of the Aboriginal leaders of this country expected to have before the Wik decision was
handed down.
FRAN KELLY:
But Prime Minister, just briefly because we'll move on to something else, but many
people are describing your 10 point plan as extinguishment by stealth. I mean, why are
you so confident that this plan would pass muster with the courts?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, anything ought to pass muster with the courts if it's the clearly expressed will of
the Parliament. And we're dealing here with the right of the people through their
Parliament to make the law of this country. The High Court interprets the law. The
Parliament makes the law. And it's perfectly proper and in accordance with time
immemorial practice for Parliament to change a law as currently interpreted by the
High Court. But what is good about my plan is that it's fair. It doesn't disrespect
native title, but it does deliver security and predictability and it makes the Nalii'e Title
Act more workable and that's what I promised I would do in the 1996 election
campaign. It is a fair plan and I hope that even in the face of a very difficult set of
circumstances I can't conceive of a more difficult balancing act I hope that it can
win the support not only of Aboriginal leaders but of others in the community whose
support is needed.
FRAN KELLY:
On another issue, cross-media laws are set to change. Would you countenance
changes to the law that could allow one media proprietor to own, for example, the
Fairfax newspaper empire as well as own and control a major national television
company? PRIME MINISTER:
Well, we're looking at that situation at the present time. My views about the crossmedia
prohibitions are well known. I, in fact, expressed opposition to the cross-media
prohibitions at a time when, for example, Mr Kerry Packer was publicly very closely
associated with Bob Hawke when he was Labor Prime Minister of Australia going
back to 1987. I mean I have a long history on the record. I've seen those rules as
being a knee-jerk, vitriolic response by the Labor Party to the then Fairfax empire,
which incidentally was bigger than a combination of a television station and the
existing Fairfax newspapers. Because in 1987 the Fairfax empire, as I recollect it,
included not only the Seven Television Network and the newspapers, but it also from
my recollection included the Macquarie Radio Network. In fact, it was the largest
media constellation that this country had seen. Now, Paul Keating set about
destroying it or breaking it up because he had some bias against them. I mean, that's
the origin of the cross-media rules.
FRAN KELLY:
Is it a bad thing to break it up though, given that people, a lot of people, think diversity
is the issue here?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well all of that 1 mean, that's 10 years ago. But I think it's very important, when
people are talking about motive and people are recollecting what happened and who
did what to whom sort of thing, that the existing law, the cross-media thing, was
inspired in by malice against the then Fairfax empire and also the old Herald and
Weekly Times. Look, there are a lot of things to be taken into account. Your diversity
argument is one of them. Another argument is the fact that in the modern age of
convergence the idea of having cross-media prohibitions is ridiculous. The belief that
there is some national benefit in having a very powerful fully Australian-based media
company. If you are to have a presence in the region and a presence around the world,
if you are to have a company that can sort of be in a sense a flag waver of Australia
then you need a very very strong domestic base. The challenge of the internet to
classified advertising, that's a relevant consideration, all of these things have to be
taken into account and we said we'd review the laws. We don't have any
commitments but I'm going to see and I know my colleagues will see that we take a
decision that is in the overall national interest.
FRAN KELLY:
Well given, just finally on this, given what you said then about a strong national
presence, Australian presence, would you also.. will you not then consider relaxing the
foreign ownership limits in tandem with changes to cross media rules?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well that's a proposition that's been put to us by a couple of..
FRAN KELLY:
I'm sure.
PRIME MINISTER:
the existing media proprietors. You know, I've had the odd telephone call, and I
understand where they are coming from and they are entitled to put their point of view.
There's a lot of sensitivity in this country about the existing level of foreign ownership.
It's about 80% in newspapers and there's obviously some foreign presence already in
two of the television.., what do I feel? I think what I feel ought first be communicated
to my colleagues. I mean, the matter is under consideration, that's obvious. I don't
make any secret about the fact that people like Mr Packer and co. come and put a
point of view is entitled to, it's in a sense better that this thing be done in a more
upfront way out in the open. He's got a point of view. He's not a person who's
reluctant to put it. Mr Murdoch's not shy either. Others have put their views. The
A. BC's put its view, the journalists put their view, they've all got to be taken into
account. You've got to bear in mind that Australia is 18 million people. We are living
in a global communications atmosphere and some of the old nostrums in this area are
no longer valid.
FRAN KELLY:
Mr Howard we are running out of time, but a couple of quick questions, the budget
process is almost wound up. There's been reports of a very heated exchange between
you and the Treasurer Peter Costello last week because you overruled some of the cuts
he intended to make, some of the savings. Is it true you stepped in to limit some of the
cuts? PRIME MINISTER:
Look I'm not going to talk about the process but I will say this, is that of course in any
Budget you get disagreements and different points of view. We have disagreements
and different points of view in every Cabinet meeting we have, every Cabinet meeting.
It'd be a strange Cabinet of docile men and women if we didn't have some vigorous
debates and disagreements but the budget outcome is one to which both Peter Costello
and I will be very fully committed and in which we will very happily and with pride
share ownership.
FRAN KELLY:
And your relationship with Peter Costello?
PRIME MINISTER:
Excellent. FRAN KELLY:
Just one final question. An impressively low inflation rate yesterday, but still
depressingly high unemployment. Would another interest rate cut do what's needed
now to stimulate the economy and boost jobs growth?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I'm not going to speculate about further interest rate cuts, I don't think it helps
but it is a brilliantly low inflation rate. We would be a very negligent 18 million people
if we don't take advantage of this remarkable conjunction of economic good fortune.
We have historically low inflation, historically low housing interest rates. We have by
world standards quite strong economic growth, very strong business investment. We
are living cheek by jowl with the fastest growing region in the world. We have been
delivered may I say a very sensible living wage case decision by the industrial relations
commission. It gives something to the battlers but it's not inflationary and I
congratulate the commission for having delivered such sensible pro-Australian
decision. Now with all of those things taken together the one depressing indicator
does remain unemployment, I acknowledge that, it is always the last to move, but we
do have so many circumstances in the palms of our hands to build a stronger and better
economic future including increasing employment growth as we move towards the turn
of the century. We would be a very negligent group of people if we don't fully take
advantage of those extremely fortuitous circumstances.
FRAN KELLY:
It's in your hands isn't it?
PRIME MINISTER:
It's in my hands but it is also collectively in the hands of the Australian people. We
can give the leadership, provide the guide, I mean, we have kept inflation down, we
have presided over falls in interest rates, we have very strong levels of business
investment, we will deliver tight budgets, not cruel budgets but tight budgets and that's
our obligation and we live in a very fast growing region and my Government is
building very close links with the major players in that region. Next week the Prime
Minister of our greatest trading partner, with whom I have a very good relationship
Mr Hashimoto is coming to Australia. I've recently been to China, we have rebuilt
relations with Malaysia, we continue the strong partnership with Indonesia which to
their credit the former Government also continued. So we have a lot of things going
for us at the moment and my message I guess to the Australian people is that we'll be