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* Cw A3I 1i1 i
IVJEETTHE
Network TEN presents an exclusive feature length interview with JOHN
HOWARD in this week's edition of MEET THE PRESS, Sunday March 2 at
8: 30am,
On the anniversary of his first year in Government. JOHN HOWARD will
discuss the achievements of his Party and their plans for the year ahead.
GUEST: JOHN HOWARD
PRIME MINISTER OF AUSTRALIA
PRESENTER: PRESS: PAUL BONGIORNO
JULIE FLYNN
RADIO 2UE
MALCOLM FARR
THE DAILY TELEGRAPH
A full transcript of the program will be placed in the press gallery boxes by
12 noon Sunday March 2, 1997.
Please feel free to extract whatever material is appropriate, acknowledging
MEET THE PRESS, NETWORK TEN.
For further information, please contact:
SIMON WEST
Executive Producer
( 02) 310 4934 Privete
( 018) 119 645 Mobile
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CHANNEL TEN ' MEET THE PRESS 02.3.97 08.30
Subject: i/ v John Howard
PAUL BONGIORNO:
JOHN HOWARD:
PAUL BONGIORNO:
JOHN HOWARD: Good morning and weklcoie. One year ago, Loday.
Australian v: oters ended the longest period of Labor
government since Federation. It was a stunning victory
for the John Howard-led Coalirion. capitalising on
Community perceptions that the Keating administration
was out of touch with the mainstream, and promising the
battlers a new government \ vouldn't ignore [ heir fears
and aspirations.
Toda, the Prime Minister meets the press. On the
panel. Julie Flynn, Radio 2UE and NM1alcolm Farr. the
Daily Teleei_ h.
Thanks for joining us. M\ lr Howard.
A pleasure.
I guess we better say ' Happy first birthday'.
Yes, it's great.
Agery Repami For pavate resewth and no to be d1Ucn* Uced. Lvy tiort made to ensure Aeuray
for am bcndwt of o" clicnts but no legal cW otr tcponsibliy Is taken fuw cnoix or a lons.
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PAUL BONGIORTNO:
JOHN HOWARD:
PAUL BONGIORNO:
JOHN HOWARD:
PAUL BONGIORNO:
JOHN HOWARD:
PAUL BONGIORNO: Now. I believe before we get down to serious business.
that you acually met the real Placido Domingo last
night. I did. What's nmore I presented him with a little gift on
behalf of the promoters. It was quite an experience.
I don't suppose y'ou want to say who your favourite
tenor is. do you?.'
It was a good show. I'll he diplomatic. It was a very
good show.
Well. I guess onto other maters..
From three tenors to the three journalists.
That's right. yes. Well. I noticed reading the number of
press interviews you've given in recent days for the first
anniversary. that there is no doubt that one of the
achievements of the first year was the passing of the
Telstra le-islation. and it's no secret that that legislation
passed because of Mal Colston defecting from Labor,
becoming an Independent.
Now. Labor is convinced that Colston is vitally
important to you. Just how grateful are you to him?
083/ 03/ 97 14: 43 Pg: 3
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JOHN HOWARD:
PAUL BONGIORNO:
JOHN HOWARD:
JULIE FLYNN:
JOHN HOWARD:
JULIE FLYNN: Well. naturally we're grateful for the support of Brian
Harradine and a1l Colston in getting the legislation
through. Of course we were. I mean. after all. we did
win a huge majority at the last election. Because of the
v'azaries of the electoral system. we don't have control
of the Senate. So -whyw ouldnt you be grateful if you
can Let Ehe support ot a couple of Independents. I
mean. let's not he sort of mince words about that.
Of course we were grateful. but that doesn't alter the
fact that in relation to the expense allowance dispute
that's goinzio n at the present time. the more it will be
allowed to run its course.
Well. how big. though. do you feel you're indebted to
him? 1 mean. do you owe him in a big way?
Well. not owe in the sense that the law is going to be
bent. Last time that le had these problems were under a
Labor goveniment...
That's right.
and an administrative solution was found. You've
promised to raise the standards that that government
applied. Would you be prepared to take it further than
they did?
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JOI-LN HOWARD: Well, what we are going to do is to allow the law to run
its proper course in relation to him and in relation to
anybody else against whom allezations are made.
I mean. vtouIl be aware that some allegations have been
made about a couple of other members. One of them
won't be a member for much longer. He's resigning.
But they will be allowed to run their course those
investigations. That means. of course, that all of the
men involved are entitled to a presumption of innocence.
And let's understand that the Labor Party is on a
destruction mission as far as Colston is concerned.
They're out to get him. The fact that they may have
sort of had administrative solutions, which is a
euphemism for perhaps turning a blind eye. some might
think, it doesn't alter the fact that now they feel quite
free to have a go at hirn. We're going to just allow the
law to take its course.
We're not going to show him any favouritism. but
equally we're not going to be bulldozed into the sort of
rolling him out. so to speak, simply because the Labor
Party and some media hysteria have suggested that we
might. I mean, we'll let the thing be investigated
properly and the law run its course.
I mean, that's the assurance I give you. He won't be
shown any favours, but equally we won't allow the
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MALCOLM FARR:
JOHN HOWARD:
MALCOLM FARR:
JOHN HOWARD:
PAUL BONGIORNO:
JOHN HOWARD: 83/ 83/ 97 14: 43 Pg: 6
Labor Party's malicious, vengeful campaign against him
dominate an objective. considered examination of his
position. Whatever the Labor Party's motives, it could be in the
end that they are routing out a rat someone who's been
rorting the taxpayer.
Well. there well. yes well. they're your words-I
mean. you....
It could be. I mean the end result will be that the
taxpayer will he saved.
Well, that's very colourful language and it gets a line,
but doesn't alter the fact that he like anybody else who's
entitled to a presumption of innocence that is our
system and people should await a proper consideration.
My position is simple....
Prime Minister....
Hang on. My position is simply this. that the law
should be allowed to run its course. He's not going to
be done any favours, but he's not going to be subject to
any persecution. And the other thing I want to say is
that the great bulk of members of parliament, the
overwhelming majority on both sides are honest and
scrupulous and utterly above board in relation to their
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MALCOLM FARR:
JOHN HOWARD:
PAUL BONGIORNO:
JOHN HOWARD: expense allowances, and it makes them as mad as
hornets when stories get around about allegations of
rorting because it gives a false impression.
The great bulk of NIPs are decent. hard-working, honest
men and women on both sides vho are trying to do a
job for the community.
Do the public believe that?
Well. to the extent of the public doesn't believe it. I
think the members of parliament are done an injustice
and I feel that my obligation as Prime Minister to speak
up for all of them, on both sides not only my own
colleagues, but also the very honest, hard-working
people in thle Labor Party as well. who do the right
thing according to their own values and beliefs.
Prime Minister. one of the excuses, if you like. that the
former Labor government gave was that there was some
advice they claim that would he hard to nail Senator
Colston with any sort of criminal activity. Now there is
the perception that too much....
Well. you ought to go and ask Senator Evans and Mr
Beazley about that. I don't know anything about what
happened in government 13 years ago-I was in
Opposition then.
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PAUL BONGIORINO:
JOHN HOWARD:
PAUL BONGIORNO:
SULIE FLYNN: But that brings me to today In the sense that the
perception is tha[ at thec Federal level there is too much
trust of poiltcians for their TA and other allowances,
chat thie s%-sem isn't Ei~ hE enou~ lh. and that at the end if
the day Senator Cotston Is found not to have done
anVthiiia criminai. the perception is out there that he has
been rorcin,-,. I inean, w. e saw on television this week
the chauffeur car and the self-drive car.
An English Jurist once said that if there was no instinct
for honour, you couldn't legislare it. And no matter
what sy'Stem-yoCu havte, there wvill always be somebody
and I'm not suggesting ihere's anybody at the moment
there alwauys mnight be somebody who'll try and
manipulate it.
But I repeaL. I think the great bulk of people in the
Parliament on both s> ides are hard-working and honest
and scrupulous, and I feel some sympathy for them in
thle senlse Ehat the collective tzood name of the show is
sometimes put into unfair disrepute.
A question from Julie Flynn.
Prime Minister. you've used your authority a-s Prime
Minister this weekend to raise the issue of gambling and
gambling taxes. But the States are arguing that you've
cut their funding and rejected calls from people like Jeff
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KaK Iron blbZYJJY74
JOHN HOWARD; 83/ 83/ 97 14: 43 Pg: 9
Kennett for a review of the tax base. you leave them
with no choice.
Oh. come on. Look. States always say the Federal
Government gives them insufficient funds. What I
expressed concern about was the fact that there's
growing evidence that there are a lot of people in our
community who can't afford to do so. are losing large
amounts of money gambling.
The figures I've got indicate that in the last financial
year, net gambling losses in Australia were about S9.4
billion, and that's about 2 per cent of GDP. Now. I'm
not a wowser. I don't care if other people gamble, but I
do express some alarm about the social consequences of
people who can't afford to do so, getting into personal
family and financial distress as a result.
I wouldn't like to see
made at the weekend.
saturation level as far
are concerned.
JULIE FLYNN: more facilities that's the point I
I think we're up here: we're at
as gambling facilities in Australia
But don't the States have a point that they're not
because you won't look at restructuring the tax base, or
their fixed share of Commonwealth revenues, that
gambling is one form of getting revenue in gambling
sin taxes, it you like?
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JOHN HOWARD;
PAUL BONGIORINO:
JOHN HOWARD: Well. you know. tile States could took at their
expendhiures and there art other revenue-raising devices
available ito States. That is an easy, if I may say so. it's
an easv excuse and gambling. of course mass
gamblina was introduced years and years and years ago
in som-e parts of Australia. and because it has spread
more rapidly and the introduction of large casinos and
the like have heen the inodern manifestation.
Now. I amn not conderrning it is such. I think it would
be absurd Of Me to dO that, hut wvhat I am expressing
concern about is that taken LO excess. many people are
left in personal and financial ruin as a result. And that
is only adding to societies complications and to distress
and difficulty for peouple in the community.
Are you sayZing you don't accept the States' argument
that their iax base is so eroded that they'v'e got no other
option? And I mean. it's one thing to say that you're
bemnoaning-it-. isn't it fair enough to say ' Well. what.
can vou do about it, if you don't wanc it to expand'?
Imean. you can't if you're a State. you can't have it
both ways. You can't sort of say ' Well. I want all the
independence to do what I like and make my own
spending decisions, and the Peds can't tell us what to
do', and vet if something goes wrong or you're short of
a dollar, you always blame the Federal Government.
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PAUL BONGIORNO:
JOHN HOWARD;
JULIE FLYNN:
JOHN HOWARD: 03/ 03/ 97 14: 43 Pg: 11
Now for time immemorial in our system. States have
sort of blamed the Federal Government whenever there's
a shortfall. Some of chose criticisms are from time tO
time justified. What we are endeavouring to do in cooperation
with the States is to end areas of duplication.
and I hope the States ; are as keen as we are to end areas
of duplication.
Well. Premier Kennett apparently doesn't think you're
going fast enough or hard enough in that area.
Well. it'll he very interesting to see the reaction of the
States. this year. in respect of proposals that have been
put to end areas of duplication. I mean. I congratulate
the Victorian Government in handing over its industrial
relations authority to the Federal Government. It'd he a
very good idea if that were duplicated, and I'd be
interested in a two-way trade.
There are some things that I think the States can do
better than we can, but equally there are some things we
can do better. And you've got to be realistic about what
can be achieved in this area.
Such as?
I don't believe you're ever going to totally reverse the
sort of relative fiscal roles of the Federal Government
and the States. I think you can make improvements at
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JULIE FLYNN:
JTOHN HOW. ARD: 03/ 03/ 97 14: 43 Pg: 12
the margrin, but I think this i'athat you're voing to
[ urn evervthinu on its head is a hit of' u pipe dream.
There has been sOme criticism of your first year. that in
faict vou have been. i( anvdhing. too cautious and tax
reform and health reform are the two key areas that are
nominated. isn't, this whole argumnent between ( he States
and the Commnonwealth over the tax base also a
reflection of the fact that you've said you wvill not look
at broadeniti-the tax base neXt E
Well, wve made a promise in the election campaigin that,
we would not introduce a GST in our first term. Now.
it* s no good people saying ' Well. look, yes, we're aware
of that, but what about tax reform' I mean, we made a
promise. We looked the Australian people in the eye
and said ' We w. ill not have a OST in our first term.'
Now uoainst that backutround. it IS hypocritical of people
to run around saving ' What are you doing about tax
retorm?' when w~ e made a promise to the Australian
people before the election that we wouldn't do it.
Now as far as the pace of reform generally is concerned,
if we hadn't been in a minority in the Senate, we'd have
changed the industrial relations system nine months ago.
The benefits ot' that would now be flowing through to
the small business community.
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PAUL BONGIORNO:
MALCOLM FARR:
JOHN HOWARD: The unfair dismissal laws would have disappeared nine
months ago. not six weeks ago. And a lot of the
benefits of our program that will only be felt in the next
six or nine months would have been well and truly felt,
absorhed. and would have been working as a henefit of
that sector long before now.
A question from Malcolm Farr.
Prime Minister, you said a spirit of compromise is going
to be needed to work out the Wik problem. Are you
confident that your National Party colleagues are
prepared to come up with a compromise?
Well. I'm confident that there's a willingness on the part
of everybody in the Government to try and see if there's
an agrccd solution that can he reached. I'm not
confident that we can have that agreed solution, but I'm
trying very hard-
I've had extensive discussion with the Aboriginal
leaders, with the miners and the farmers. I've had them
all together in the one room for three or four hours, and
I'll be talking to some of them again next week as I did
last week. And I'm trying very hard to see if we can
reach an agreed outcome.
There's a good spirit abroad, but.... 03/ 83/ 97 14: 43 Pg: 13
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MALCOLM FARR:
JOHN HOWARD:
MALCOLM FARR:
JOHN HOWARD:
MALCOLM FARR;
JOHN HOWARD:
JULIE FLYNN:
JOHN HOWARD:
JULIE FLYNN: It didn't seem it when Premier Borbidge yeSterday said
some High Cuourt judges were dills about history.
Well. that in a sense is a little bit separate from the
spirit that's cedeid to reach an ugreed outcome.
You say\ you're not confident at this stage.
I've -ot no talse illusions about how hard it's going to
be. and there's no point in getting false expectations up.
But I am trving. by including evervbody in the
discussions. to see if I can find the common ground for
an agreed outcome. If I can't. tlihen I' 11 be making some
recommendations to my colleaues.
Legislative.... Well. whatever you do. there'll be some leislation
required. It's a question of how extensive.
Hendv Cowan yesterday said that National Party
constituency has given up on the Liberal Party coming
up with a solution....
Well, that's just Hendy trying to get a headline, really.
and that it should simply be extinguishment of native
title. 83/ 03/ 97 14: 43 Pg: 14
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JOHN HOWAkRD:
PAUL BONGIORNO:
JOHN HOWARD; I've spoken to the only National Party Premier in
Australia. quite extensively, last week. and that's the
Premier of Queenisland. Rob Borbidge. for whom I have
enormous respect. and I mean he's fiercely defending
thle interests of his constituents, but fies also adopting. I
think,. a very sensible approach. He's searching to see if
there is a basis for ail a,_ reed outcome which will
properly protect thie interesis of farmers in Queensland.
So. I think that sort of utterly final declaration from
somebody contributes nochin'a at all to the debate.
But when you talk compromise. isn't the problem that
you're asking one group. tile Aborigines. to compromise
a riL-hc?
Yes, but those who argue that nothing should happen in
the wake of the \ Vik decision. are asking the pasroralists
of Australia to give up something that they have seen as
a right for 200 years. I mean, when their leases were
issued year after y'ear all around Australia. nobody
talked about native tite. because it didn't exist. Now,
it's a question of I mean. in a sense the Wik decision
retrospectively altered the wvhole basis on which pastoral
leases in this country have been issued.
So. you've got a collision of perceived
therefore, to talk of compromise is
unreasonable for the Aborigines than it
farmers or the miners. And this idea that rights and.
no more
is for the
compromise
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MALCOLM FARR:
JOHN HOWA. IRD: involves Imposirng solely obligations on the Aborigines.
inisreads what has happened Inl[ tie wake of' the Wvik
decision to the perceived rights of farmiers and
pastoral isis in particular.
Do you see this Hiuh Court as quite deliberately sending
the Gtweriiineiu a in11sa1z t 4ti. theC court, wants the
Government to 11ove a11011-a hit quicker'!
Well, what I have said Is that there is a perception in the
commnunity and this is not necessarily related to one or
other decision there's a perception in the community
that Somne people In thle judicial area think the role of the
courts 1now is it) sort of jolly governments along where
thley, perceive governments hiaven't moved quickly
enough1. NOW. Call I ma1ke! it clear that I have the utmost
respect for tie in~ eurity of the High Court. I make no
complaints about their commitment to their work or to
their responsibilities, Like any other Australian citizen,
I have the right to disagree with or criticise a particular
decision. I was disappointed in the Wik decision. It would have,
in my view, been more in conformity with what
everybody was told in 1993. if the High Court had held
that pastoral leases extinguished native title. I mean,
that's what Paul Keatinv-said. it's what all the farmers
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PAUL BONGIORNO:
JOHN HOWARD: believed: it's what man\, Aboriginal leaders
acknowledg. ed. and it was contained in a recital of the
Native Title Act. Now that in a sense has created the
dilIem ma.
Now, I accept that wvhat the High Court has said
decla res the lwas it is at present But as I've said on
probably 20 occasions. che Parliament hias Elie right at
any' tiMe Lhat if it thinks it is in Australia's interests to
alter the law aS currently interpreted.
Now thiat represents a correct statement of the
interaction of the legislature and thie executive with the
judiciary, It respects the role Of tlie High Court. but it
asserts the superior right. Of Parliament to change the law
as interpreted and declared by the High Court if it thinks
that is in Australia's interests.
Mr Howard. there's news overnight that 150
mercenaries have landed on the Papua New Guinea
island of Boueainville. Isn't this a slap in the face to
our diplomatic efforts to prevent. this happening, and
what now can Australia do about it"
Well. there are a number Of Options that we'll be
looking at, and I don't want to go into them any further
at this stage. We expresscd our view about it. We'll
continue to express our view about it. This is not a new
problem. The previous government had a similar
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PAUL BONGIORLNO:
JOHN HOWARD: difficulty w ithj papua New Guinea. It really is against
that country's miedium and long-term interests to use
mercenaries TO Wipe ourC tile BRA.
The only % kav k ou vaii solve Thai problem is by genuine
negotiationi. We've put chat ito the Prime N\ tinister of
New Guinea repeatedly. WV'll continue to do a number
of rhinas ito trv and hrinL, home io the PNG Government
the fully of tile course ( in which we believe that
gYovernrnnt is now embarked. And I understand ilhac
view is shared by New Zealand. by the United Stares.
by the UK. by other Pacific Island countries. It's a
difficult issue an1d I
Well. there only seeil to be 1% V0 Options. do there nor?
Either w,, e dit something about our aid what we give
them: or perhaps even some sort of military
inherv entioll*?
Welt, it's not the sort of issue where one should make
sort of over-Ehe-shoulder comments on the run. You're
dealing With a very sensitive area of international
relations and something is right on our doorstep and
somethingy that the rest of the world sees Australia as
having a particular responsibility for.
But you're also dealing with an independent coumtry,
and you have the sensitivity that a former colonial
power. so to speak, telling a former colony what it
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JULIE FLYNN:
JOHIN HOWARD: 83/ 03/ 97 14: 43 Pg: 19
thinks it ouft to be. That always raises natural
sensitivies. And Australia and New GUinea are no
different from any other tw. o countries that had that
relationship. Asecond jury has just uwarded dainages, to William
lvll-an? a survivor of the \\ w-, ager disaster, You
aave a public coritnment to investigate the
Commonwealth's iutack on. or challenge to that. Will
vou continue to challenae this man who now has only
three weekS to 1iVe? WVill your government....
Well. I will be lookinVI atl that m1atter tomorrow. It is a
very difficult and sensitive issue because of the tragic
circumstances in which Mr McLean now finds himself.
But the other side of it is that w,. hat happens to him has
enormous precedent implications for hundreds of people
who were on the Melbourne.
Bear in mnind that % Mr McLean wxas on the Melbourne,
hie wvas not on the Vovagzer. And it opens up a whole
new sort of area of potential liability involving tens of
millions of dollars. And I'm totally sympathetic to his
personal situation. but I have a responsibility to the
people wiove paid the taxes that might ultimately fund
( he Lens of millions of dollars of compensation claims, to
look to their interests as well. So. I'm trying to get a
balance of the two.
PAUL BONGIORNO:
JOHN HOWARD:
PAUL BONGIORNO:
JOHN HOWARD:
PAUL BONGIORNO: 03/ 83/ 97 14: 43 Pg:
It sounds like you don't have much room to move,
though. Well. it's one of those difficult issues because the optics
of it are awful. People say ' Gee. you're hard-hearted
and everything. The poor man is dying.' All of that is
true. but the implication of just giving a tick to that is
that the taxpayers could be up fur tens and tens of
millions of dollars in circumstances that they may not
regard anywhere near as meritorious as Mr McLean.
Prime Minister. we are running out of time. Just very
briefly, of your deputy that is Treasurer Costello and
Peter Reith, Leader of the House. which of the two, do
you think, is performing better?
They're both performing brilliantly. Look, I think Peter
Costello is a tremendous Treasurer, and I think Peter
Reith has done a great job as IR. and I think they'll
continue to contribute mightily for the Howard
government for at least a decade into the future.
Okay. Thank you very much to our guest today. Prime
Minister John Howard. and to our panel.