( f
PRIME MINISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER, THE HON P J KEATING MP
AND THE MINISTER FOR HOUSING AND REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT,
THE HON BRIAN HOWE MP, DOORSTOP, BEENLEIGH COMMUNITY
CENTRE, QUEENSLAND, 11 DECEMBER 1995
E& OE PROOF COPY
J: How confident are you that the States will respond positively?
PM: Well, my colleague Brian Howe has had substantial discussions with
the State Ministers for Housing and Regional Development and by and
large there is, I think, a general willingness to go down this path. That
is, it has been pretty much a part of the COAG process, that is, better
aligning the roles and responsibilities of the Commonwealth and the
States and this seems to us a sensible direction. That is, on the one
hand the Commonwealth will be taking over the responsibilities of
income support, both for the public and private rental market and on
the other hand the States will be taking full responsibility for the
housing stock. There will be efficiencies and, of course, a more
equitable support for people on lower incomes.
J: Prime Minister, how quickly do you expect people who are renting
privately to see the benefits of public housing ( inaudible)..
PM: As we say in the Statement, it is contingent upon a set of agreements
at the Council of Australian Governments as to the reflection of the fact
that the States would no longer be required to provide rentals to public
housing, but rather this would be done by the Commonwealth and this
will require a discussion and agreement about the general figures.
J: So, are you talking about, in terms of after this three year interim
agreement?
PM: We start in 1 July 1996 for the agreements, we should have it in place,
I think, by then shouldn't we Brian?
BH: The interim agreement is up to three years so that really is contingent
on how long it takes for negotiations and how long it takes to actually
set up the new approach. There are some complicated planning
issues involved, so the interim agreement is there for three years as
the current coverage. But, it could be a long way sooner than three
years.
J: So, it is conceivable that there could be some announcement before
the election?
PM: I think, we have really got to sit down with the States and take it from
here in terms of financial assistance grants and I can't see us getting
that done before the election.
J: Prime Minister, if people capitalise how are they going to be able to
afford to pay off their mortgage?
PM: A lot of people will, for a start, if you put a decent down payment down
it means that you're not borrowing such a high proportion of the cost of
the mortgage and therefore the repayments can be structured to suit
you. A lot of people just can't get the deposit together.
J: Who would act as their guarantor I mean, they would have to act as
their own guarantor..
PM: Well, I think the financial institutions, we have got plenty of them in the
housing area, they are fairly sophisticated and the sort of bad debt
situation in housing is so low as to make it a very safe area of
commerce. But, of course, there are mortgage insurers as well and a
lot of financial institutions will insist on mortgage insurance.
J: The housing industry would prefer a more direct incentive any talk
about that?
PM: I notice John Murray from Master Builders Australia said today it was
the most definitive statement on housing since World War 1I. So, that
is a fair indication of what they think about it and, I think, that they are
thinking long. I mean, housing finance today is there by virtue of the
fact that the government opened and deregulated housing in the
middle of the 1980s when our predecessor, of course, left it subject to
regulation. So, you were very lucky if you got a housing loan, most
people couldn't and when you got a loan it was cocktailed up with
second mortgages and personal finance. So, it was enviably higher.
We have got real competition in housing lending now and housing
lending rates are coming down and this has been a stimulus to the
market. But, where there has been overbuilding, you will just have to
wait for that stock of places to be taken up, but there is no doubt this
would help in the longer run because it means that some of the private
stock could go virtually into rentals for people who might not otherwise
qualify for a place in public housing for years and years.
J: Prime Minister, is this aimed at the battlers?
PM: Well, Brian Howe and I have been battling for battlers all of our
political lives. The Labor party has been battling for them for over 100
years and in our case we have been battling for a quarter of that time
and a lot of the changes to rent assistance which I mentioned in the
speech, affordability came, of course, from reforms in the 1980s and
the essence of this is for people on low incomes who are finding that
they just can't get the houses of their choice in the places of their
choice or for people who are now in public housing who are afraid to
move to where they really want to be because they think they will lose
their place. Now, it is only ever Labor governments that think about
these people and, of course, the Liberals condescendingly call them
battlers. It is a bit like saying someone is in trade, it is their social
equivalent of their " in trade" remark.
J: Prime Minister is it possible to put a dollar figure on the Rent
Assistance Program?
PM: I don't think we should try that at this point. We have got some fairly
close estimates of it all, but this is a big program, a systemic program
change has got to be worked through with the States. So, rather than
having numbers running around we have made some very clear
benchmarks though. We are saying that new tenants in public housing
will receive subsidies which will ensure that they pay no more than
per cent of their income in rent for appropriate housing. There is some
of those types of things there to give people a guide.
J: ( inaudible)..
PM: I think the answer to that is yes. It is just a matter of how much we can
negotiate in the mean time.
J: Mr Keating, are there any guarantees that the States won't just rip
money out of the housing sector the same as they have done in
health?
PM: What will be happening here is that the States would be providing
funding to the Commonwealth for the implicit rents they now provide.
We will still have a commitment under the new agreement, but again, if
they allow too many of their housing stock perhaps more ambitiously,
they can sell them, turn them over, renovate them, but there will
always be political pressure on States to provide public housing and it
is like every state, I mean you can try some of these policies if you
wish but in the end you get a community back lash. People do want
these sorts of public services.
J: Prime Minister, the Coalition says the real issue is a cut in the interest
rates..
PM: We have seen quite substantial changes in housing interest rates now
with fixed housing rates and variable rates having come down in the
last few months. They will always make the glib empty remark. The
non-glib full remark is, as I say, where we want housing policy to go in
the long run. And as always, it is only the government out there with
the policies. Today, again, it is always the government out there with
the policy and what you get from them, you know, press release
confetti. You know, the confetti and we are obviously entering the
confetti stage with the Opposition. But it is not very easy to write very
much on a piece of confetti and that is what they will do. They will give
you one page press releases from now until polling day. So what they
won't give you is a coherent policy.
J: Senator Cook talked yesterday about a downfall in interest rates
coming from the Innovation Statement ? 7
PM: Well the more innovation there is in the financial markets the better
and you can see it in housing. I mean John Howard had the Campbell
Report. He could have deregulated housing interest rates so as
people could get the benefit of lower housing. He didn't do it. We did
it and, as a consequence, now you can walk into a financial institution
with one mortgage and get a loan. You couldn't do that. They were
rationed. Housing finance was rationed before deregulation and you
then only got $ 25,000 or $ 30,000 on a mortgage. You then got
another $ 10,000 on an overdraft. You get some more money on a
personal loan and it was all cocktailed up. The more the Government
has been able to bring innovation into the financial markets, the more
efficiently they are operating. And you can really see some probably
in this last 12 or 15 months, for the first time really strong competition
in the housing sector.
J: Prime Minister, do you expect all the costs to be covered by the
Innovation Statement?
PM: Well the costs to this are not affected by the revenue raised from the
Innovation Statement because this is a revenue neutral matter
between the Commonwealth and the States. It is a matter of us
realigning our roles and responsibilities. It is not a matter, here, of
trowelling new money in.
J: What about Better Cities funding?
PM: Oh the Better Cities money is there. But that is over a period of years
over three years.
J: inaudible
PM: Well, I mean Brian said it himself, eloquently, about the rail lines and
the importance of the gateways. I mean we have just spent
$ 250 million here in Brisbane on a new international airport where we
have now got, you know, linkages down to the city of Brisbane and to
the Gold Coast. We have got, now, a rail line to help also make that
linkage and this is going to be as true and as valuable in Melbourne,
as it is in Sydney, and other places. And it is again, as Brian said it
is only in the last 30 years or so that we have been building rail links
and these sort of linkages. I don't think you want to add to that Brian,
do you?
J: Kennett's assertion essentially that you are undermining him?
PM: Well I can't see how it undermines his proposals. I mean I think he is
just having a bad week old Jeffrey.
J: Mr Keating, will the timing of Mundingburra by-election affect your
plans for the federal election?
PM: Well, no, because Mundingburra is exclusively a State by-election,
about exclusively State matters. People in this State know all about
that. They have had these issues in the public debate now for months
and months. But I am very confident Wayne Goss' Government will
win the by-election because the Government is doing very well.
I mean it is back in the saddle, it is governing, it is looking good and,
I think, the Premier said it all the other day when he said " you don't
want the instability that comes from hung Parliaments". Look at
New South Wales. The Fahey Government couldn't move for pressure
from independents. You had Premier Greiner making the same point
and there was very much a time when people regarded New South
Wales, under the Coalition Government, as a place to miss. You know
you went to Queensland, or to Victoria. Now I don't think Queensland
should lose that advantage. The advantage of Government and
getting on with it.
J: How do you think Wayne Goss would go in a State poll?
PM: Well there is no State poll. I mean it is a by-election.
J: No, if the by-election went the other way?
PM: Oh God knows. Well I think he would get up because the Government
looks good, I think, and we are getting things done. Like the things we
are doing jointly with them here.
J: So from a federal point of view Mundingburra doesn't concern the
federal government either way?
PM: No, the federal arena has got a whole different smorgasbord of issues
altogether and given that it is not that long since a State election here,
which was a relatively close one, in which this seat mattered then and
mattered now. I mean I am sure the Queensland community, certainly
the people of Mundingburra, understand that well. Anyway, it is only
ever the Labor Party that has ever done anything for Townsville.
I mean we have just put funding into a new port, the Commonwealth, in
the last year or so. Look at that huge investment in the water supply.
There is one branch of the Australian Taxation Office. I mean
Better Cities funding.
J: So you wouldn't see anything Mundingburra by-election within five
weeks of the federal campaign?
PM: Well, Jim, you're in the central Canberra Press Gallery business of
picking election dates for the Prime Minister. It is like, you know, a
game of scrabble.
J: So you wouldn't see anything Mundingburra by-election within five
weeks of the federal campaign?
PM: No, it wouldn't worry me because I think they are separate issues.
J: Does it worry you that you won't be invited?
PM: When have you ever seen a Prime Minister in a State by-election?
When, ever? Like since 1901, ever? I don't think so.
J: inaudible
PM: Yes, but Ian Spicer is a fully paid up member of the Liberal Party,
mate. Ian Spicer is a card-carrying Lib and he was in the last election
and he will be in this one.
J: And that comes from all the Westpac people that were polled?
PM: No, and it is not coming from the private economists. It is not coming
from the other organisations who make it very clear that they expect
the economy to be growing of the order of 3 1/ 2 per cent.
J: inaudible
PM: Well that could be drawn from it and could be so. But I haven't seen
the results of the survey. I can't confirm those. But, again, we have
taken the economy off from 6 per cent GDP to something slower.
That doesn't mean to say it is going into negative growth.
Only Howard is pushing that miserable view around, just as he did in
the last election. They were going to have a double dip recession and
7
a depression and any chump in the press who was prepared to listen
to them then wrote it, just put the same discount through it, that either
you put through then or you should have.
J: What are your expectations of Howard's national identity in the next
Headland speech scheduled on Wednesday?
PM: Well when Mr Howard starts talking about the national identity
I mean you know for him who always started in Whitehall and finished
in Pennsylvania Avenue and no doubt he will be preaching some of
the themes which I hope I have made familiar about the importance of
culture to Australia, of Australian culture to Australia, keeping violence
off television. Unlike him, I don't mind him pinching my policies.
That is quite a compliment.
ends