TEL 22.6 . Jul .994
PRIME MINISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER, THE HON P J KEATING MP
INTERVIEW WITH RAY MARTIN, A CURRENT AFFAIR
JULY 1994
RM: Prime Minister, thanks for your time.
PM-: Good, Ray.
RM: Now the UN Commander said today of Rwanda, said today, that had
countries like Australia responded more quickly there would be
hundreds and thousands of people alive there. How do you respond to
that?
PM: Well, we were one of the first countries to respond. We put our first
funds in there in April, that's now some months ago, and I think, and of
course, we've been preparing for a substantial commitment to the UN
Force which is about clearing the way for the refugees to go home.
You see, the best way of deafling with a refugee problemh, Ray, is to get
people to actually go back to their houses, and their villages. They
won't do that unless there is a stable scene there, so we've been
preparing to make the major commitment we made today there, and as
well as that, as you know today we've made a major commitment to the
humanitarian aid. Now, I had a cable in last Friday, in fact I'll read it to
you it's directly from AI1DA-B that's Australian aid abroad officer
said: " The situation in Goma has deteriorated since my visit there on
Wednesday", and he said, " what is clear is that Goma is apocalyptic".
Now that came in on Saturday. So, we've had a deterioration here, a
very speedy one, unforseen really, in the last few days and what we've
now decided to do is bring our commitment up to $ 1lOm in all, which is,
which will be if not the largest, just about the largest, of all the financial
commitments, and then we are sending two Hercules with water
filtration equipment, and re-hydration equipmept, rehydration kits for
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people, and food aid and medical supplies, as well as the big force of
over 300.
RM: So this equipment is going into the camps, as against going into
Kigali?
PM: Going into the camps. Now, Kgli is where our officers will be with the
5,500 strong UN Force. That's basically about letting the refugees
come home. See, they're too afraid to go home, and that's why they're
stuck in these camps with all of this destruction and death and
disease.
RM: What about those people, such as CARE and so on, who say that
these people are too sick to travel Wfi~ t need is to prop them up
for some months before we do anything back in Kigali?
PM: Well, some will travel Ray, and some would need to be propped up. I
think what we need to do is do both, and what we're trying to do is
respond to both challenges along the term one of getting the people
back into Rwanda, which is now made somewhat more likely and
easier by the fact that the Patriotic Front there now controls the country
and there isn't a war still raging so it's possible to resettle people
and then, to get as much support as we possibly can in food aid and
medical supplies onto the people, on a humanitarian basis, in the
border camps.
RM: Well, PM, if we accept that what you've done, that what the
Government has done is very generous, would you agree though that
for whatever reason we were pretty late in moving?
PM: No, well, I think..
RM: The western world..
PM: we sent over an observer team about a month ago to see whether
the UN plan was feasible. See, Ray, we can't put Australian troops in
a position of jeopardy, and there had to be a feasible scheme by the
UN that worked. We went basically to case that out, to see whether
that would happen, whether it was feasible. In the meantime, the
Patriotic Front has actually succeeded, so the temperature within
Rwanda politically has dropped and militarily has dropped. Our
judgement is now that the plan can succeed and we are committing
over 300 people. I don't think we could have done it any earlier.
RM. But do you accept what the UN Commander says, that had we been
able to, for whatever reason, had we been able to get in earlier, the
western countries, we may have saved hundreds and thousands of
lives?
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PMV: That could well be possible, but, I think, nobody foresaw the build up
on the borders the number of people leaving the country, that have
built up on the borders and, I think, it is to that we are now
responding.
RM:. Mr Keating, you have got a small family as lots of us have a young
family. I mean, what do you say to them as they sit and watch
television each night. How do you explain to your eight year old
daughter that we can't just go in and feed them?
PM: Well, I think, my family probably the same with your own Ray, they sit
there very quiet when they see this, very quiet very sad and quiet.
They know there is a bad thing going on here. I mean, I think, you
know, some of that scenery over the weekend made me very
determined, that I know Australians feel compassionate about these
sorts of events and I wanted the Government today to respond to that
compassion. I wanted us to be able to say well, we're there and we're
doing our very best. Now, we have some influence, we have some
financial power and some organisational ability and we are going to
use it. So, the answer is my family's reaction, Ray, which was, you
know, a sad one and one saying that, well, there is a certain
helplessness about us in the face of this. I mean, the Government is
not helpless and we've made, I think, the appropriate steps today to try
and do our part as Australians.
RM: I'd like to personalise that a little further. Obviously, if you sit there
with your daughters and your son and your wife, do they say hang on
dad, this Is terrible, this unforgivable, we've got to do something?
PM: Well, the reports over the weekend, I mean, I was only with them
probably on one occasion where the news reports came in which
showed the big helicopter pictures of the people there and the close
ups and there was just the, sort of, I think, quiet and latent expressions
of sadness. I think they were overcome by the pictures. Annita and I
were talking about it saying how dreadful this scene is and how we
ought to be getting something cracking there as quickly as possible.
RM: You've suggested that they impacted on you so much that while you
would have come in anyway for the Cabinet decision today, that it
made you more determined to actually make a serious effort than you
were?
PMV: Well, I think, more determined to be effective. More determined to
make sure our presence was being felt. I mean, I think I know how
Australians think about this. They would see this group of people in
this desperate position with their loved ones dying around them and in
their arms. Our sense of democracy and support for one another
doesn't countenance those sorts of things. So", I wanted our response
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today to be one the Australian people thought was both appropriate
and they felt proud about.
RM: Alright, but the $ 10 million figure, which is a very significant figure in
world terms, would that have been as high as it is had you not been
affected over the weekend?
PM: Probably not, Ray. Probably not.
RM: Why is it, it seems, that, every time in this wealthy world of ours, this
world of plenty, it is always an African catastrophe? It always seems
to if it is not the Sudan, it's Somalia, if it's not Somalia, it's
Ethiopia, now it's Rwanda. Why is that? What do you say to your
children?
PM: Well, I think it is about politics and it is about prospects for growth.
There are enormous pockets of poverty and deprivation in Asia. But,
the Asian economies are at least growing and gradually income
standards are rising. This is not true in parts of the African continent.
RM: If perceptions is what we deal in, it seems easier, somehow, to forget
black Africans when they die, than white people?
PM: Well, I think what Australians are saying today, certainly what I am
saying and what the Government is saying and, I'm sure, all
Australians are saying this should not be so. That, when there is a
human tragedy, those of us who are able to respond should, no matter
where it is.
RM: It seems, as well, you know, people saying that where there is oil at
stake, for example, the West responds far more quickly than when it is
just, simply, black Africans dying?
PM: Well, that, I think, is probably true. But, it is not right and it is events
like these which test those sorts of attitudes.
RM. Alright, we thank you for your time.
PMV: Thank you, Ray.
ends.