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PRIME MINISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER, THE HON P. J. KEATING, MPD
INTERVIEW WITH DAVE HARRISON, RADIO 4T0 TOWNSVILLE,
WEDNESDAY, 20 JULY 1994
E& OE PROOF COPY
PM: the story and the picture was in The Bulletin today, they don't do
colour.
DH: We'll have a little chat to them. Mr Keating, welcome to Townsville. I
hope you have a great stay here. If you can just put on the
headphones, I've got our very first question for you. Certainly a
statement that a lady made and I think you'll like this.
C: I think I'm speaking for the kids, because, look, I consider myself a
dinkum Aussie right back from an Irish convict and an Aboriginal lady.
And look, I think Mr Keating is doing great wonders for this country and
I hate to see people putting him down and honestly, if they vote in a
Pommy, you know who I mean, I think we are all going to be sorry.
You know, I think that Paul is doing a great job, leave him alone and
he'll do even a greater one.
DH: Well what do you reckon about that?
PM: Well it doesn't come any nicer than that, thank you very much indeed
for those sentiments.
DH: Mate, I must ask you, you did mention the good relationship we do
have with Canberra, due to Ted Lindsay, but he hasn't got a Cabinet
post as yet.
PM: Well, Ted is sitting beside me.
DH: Ted you can make a comment there if you want, there's the
microphone.
PM: We've got four Queenslanders in the Cabinet and that in the Ministry is
a pretty substantial number. Ted is a Parliamentary Secretary and H'e
has been sworn in by the Governor-General as the Ministers are sworn
in to administer a certain department or certain departments and he
does that work in fine style. But the most important work, of course, he
has done is respect of Townsville of course is for the people of
Herbert. As I said last night, when one looks back to the things which
Ted has secured for Herbert such as the dam and the pipeline and the
One Nation funding for the port more recently, the tax office, the
Commonwealth buildings, I mean it just goes on and on and on. So as
I said whenever the Finance Department see Ted wondering in the
corridors they always wince because he has cost the Commonwealth
budget so much.
DH: Well, mate, if I could ask you just to put the headphones on just once
more. I asked a couple of kids to call this morning and ask you a
couple of questions.
C: Hello, this is and I would like to know what Paul Keating does with
the taxes and what is his favourite food?
DH: Now I know that is a pretty heavy question, sir, what do you do with the
taxes and your favourite food.
PM: Well what we do with the taxes is we try and do the things, all the
things, first of all the principal thing we do in this country is always to
seek to protect the physical security of Australia through defence, so
we spend money on defence and we spend money then on health and
on education, on schools, on universities, in support for the aged
through pensions, and aged care. These sorts of things are the things
we do. And we do it, I think, well.
DH: Indeed, your favourite food, mate, now that is the important one, the
kids want to know.
PM: My favourite food, well I'm not sure what my favourite food is. I think it
is probably a good rare steak.
DH: Fair enough, Port Hinchenbrook , getting back into the serious thing
again. What will the Feds do if Valentine's report shows there is cause
for action over the famous Oyster Point?
PM: Well I'm not really across the issues here. I know there are
development issues involved here and there will be, as in all these
major environmental things, whether it be the wet tropics or the Great
Barrier Ree or whatever it is, there is due process. And I mean, any
development application will be considered properly and we'll look at
all the environmental aspects.
DH: Right. Now if you would like to ask Mr Keating a question 723777.
OH: Mr Prime Minister, have you ever been to Magnetic Island across the
road here?
PM: I have years ago.
OH: How many years ago. A long time?
PM: Oh yes, about 15 years ago.
DH: Did you like it?
PM: Oh yes, the whole area is lovely.
DH: Changed a little bit.
PM: Yes, well the whole Pacific has changed a lot since. But the coast,
there is a much greater emphasis on the natural values of the coast, I
think, and particularly with tourism growing the way it is. So these are
great assets.
DH: Indeed they are. I notice in the Financial Review this morning, Mr
Downer labelled as Mr Practical and interesting stuff on the detailed
policy.
PM: Well it was very interesting I thought because it said that, about the
policy outline, he says the outline also confirms a statement will avoid
detailed policy. You see, Mr Downer wants to be in the public debate
but not into policy. He said 6TY 4QR in May, he said I think,
" Australians are entitled from the two major political parties to have
reasonably detailed policies." Well now he is telling us he is going to
avoid any detailed policy. He said, they are talking about
Itcommonsense goals including focussing on those things that unite not
divide us, a maintenance and strengthening of the federal system," just
a series, essentially a series, of motherhood statements. So, I think
what we are going to see is just a bunch of cliches sort of wrapped in
the flag. And that is about all we are going to see from Mr Downer.
Yet he has promised policy detail. The Government, of course, when it
announces a White Paper has all the policy forensically displayed for
everybody to read-and-uinderstand and those policies have an impact
on the country and on society. The Liberals now think they can skate
through without policies, they have been so burned, they think, by Dr
Hewson's policy articulation they are going back now to no policies.
Well this is just in contrast, in contr distinction, to what Mr Downer
said, the public were entitled to with detailed policy announcements.
DH: I think we might let a couple of North Queenslanders ask you a couple
of questions. Morning Elizabeth.
C: Hello how are you.
DH: How are you mate?
C: I'm fine.
DH: That's the way, say good morning to Mr Keating.
C: Good morning Mr Keating.
PM: Elizabeth, how are you doing.
C: I'm well thank you. The question I have is my husband and I are
getting the money together for a deposit on our first home but are
concerned with talk of rising home loan interest rates etc. So what are
your plans to ensure interest rates don't skyrocket?
PM: Well, it is not a matter of skyrocketing, they are not going to skyrocket.
The thing that basically governs the price of money is two elements.
One the inflation rate and two, the real rate of lending above the
inflation rate. Now, as you know, we had housing loans at around
or 16 per cent in the latter part of the 80s and they are now down to
somewhere between 7 1/ 2 to 9 1/ 2, that sort of area. But while ever
the inflation rate remains low, interest rates will remain low too.
C: Well I understand how interest rates work, my concern is more so
comments about the Reserve Bank meeting with the banks. I mean,
making it harder to get a home loan. Like will our chance of obtaining
a first home just be shattered now.
PM: Well I think there are two things here, there is the loans for first homes
and those who build them and there are loans that go to the existing
property market. That is, where no houses are being added to the
stock, but the loans potentially just simply driving up the prices make
housing less affordable. At the moment, housing is very affordable on
the basis of price and on repayments through the interest rate. And
we were last, I think housing, you have got to go back a long way to
find housing more affordable than now. And need I say, that the
reduction in interest rates in the last few years has meant a big
increase in disposable income for families because the repayment rate
has come down. I don't think there is going to be a problem about first
homes. I don't think there is going to be a problem at all in fact. But
we don't want to see, if you like, housing institutions, lending
institutions, driving up the price of existing properties which is not
going to help anybody get a house.
C: Okay, thanks for your help.
DH: Thank you very much Elizabeth. Morning Gina.
C: Morning
DH: How are you going on your North Queensland morning, alright?
C: Very well thank you.
DH: Say g'day to the boss.
C: Good morning Mr Prime Minister.
PM: How are you doing?
C: Good thank you. I don't really have that many questions. The one
question that really interests me is how you feel about the commitment
to the UIN in the Rwanda situation. I mean, are we going to do
anything about that do you think?
PM: Well, we have been very firm supporters of the United -Nations
particularly when the Cold War finished and the s6rt of oIr'rity
between the United States and the Soviet Union disappeared. A lot of
regional tensions have emerged as a consequence. And the body that
has, if you like, filled some of the gap is the United Nations so
Australia has been very supportive of the UN in peacekeeping
operations, most famously, of course, for us in Cambodia and Somalia
etc. So we are prepared to participate in peacekeeping operations
providing they are well planned, where the objectives are clearly set
and where we think there is a start, a middle and a finish point. That is
where we understand the environment we are coming into and the one
which we will leave. In Rwanda these things are not yet clear and it
has not been easy to devFo-p a response, although we have been
looking at evaluation on the ground there and we have sent a small
team to do some evaluation. When we get that report, the
Government will make further judgements about it. I mean, the
Foreign Minister hasd this matter under notice, virtually now
permanently because of the difficulties there and the Government will
be considering what it might do in Rwanda in the next few days, to
week.
C: That is excellent to hear. I'd also just like to make a comment, I think
you are doing an excellent job.
PM: Well thanks very much.
C: I hear people bagging you out all the time, you know, like sort of on
unemployment and I just really appreciate the situation that Australia is
in with our social structure, our hospital benefits, I mean you don't
have to suffer with tooth ache, and you look at these poor people over
there and then you look at what we've got and I think a lot of that has
got to do with your stature as a leader.
PM: Well thank you very much. A couple of years we had problems, we
are now growing at 5 per cent. Australia is growing faster than any
Western country. We've got inflation at 1 per cent, we've had 3 per
cent employment growth in the last year. So on growth generally,
inflation and employment growth, we are ahead of the Western world
countries now by a big margin. Now my opponents were telling us in
the last election campaign, Dr Hewson and now Mr Downer at the time,
we were heading for a recession, double dip recession and a
depression. In fact, we are growing faster than any Western economy
and we have done it without tearing to bits that social wage you refer
to. Access and opportunity to health, access and opportunity to
education and all these things.
C: Well, that's right and I just think, you know, it's like Nehemiah said
when those guys went to the War when he was rebuilding the wall to
Jerusalem he said look, don't bother me now, I'm doing a job and I
think that's pretty sad that you should take with your opponents..
DH: OK, thank you Gina. One more from the kids and what is his favourite
food?
C: Hello.
DH: How are you going?
C: Good thanks.
DH: What's your name?
C: Cameron.
DH: Cameron, what did you want to ask the Prime Minister?
C: Why doesn't he have normal cars?
PM: Well, I do.
DH: Why doesn't he have normal cars? What sort of car could you see the
Prime Minister driving? What sort of car to you reckon? A mini moke.
C: A limo.
DH: Do you reckon he'd look all right in a mini moke or something like that?
C: Yes.
DH: Yes, what do you reckon about a pair of roller blades?
C: Yes.
DH: Well, that's one from the kids too, what do you reckon? What sort of
car do you drive?
PM: Well, I get about in a normal car. That is, a normal coloured car when
I'm in Sydney and Melbourne and Brisbane. In Canberra I have a
white one, but again, it is just a standard Australian made car a
Holden.
DH: Good stuff. I did have a couple of guys ring me up this morning, as
you know we live on the shores of the great Coral Sea, they ask does
he enjoy fishing? Does he go out and ever have a bash at a bit of
proper fishing?
PM: Oh yes, I give fishing a nudge occasionally.
DH: Do you ever get time?
PM: But, they have got to jump on the line quickly. That's the only
insistence I have. That is, if I put the old hook down, I want them to
jump on rather fast.
DH: Speaking of that, the plan for the next 25 years for the Great Barrier
Reef, can you give us a little bit of a hint?
PM: Well, I've got the pleasure this morning of announcing the new
strategic plan for the Great Barrier Reef. I think, we've got a wonderful
asset in this country, but of course, it is a World Heritage item and it's
listed under the World Heritage list and it ought to be because it is part
of the international heritage. But, we are in charge of it and it is
important, therefore, what we do with it and the Great Barrier Reef
Marine Park Authority which has had basically charge of this and the
research programs which have been operating and, of course, now
more in concert with businesses, I think, gives us a really good chance
to think about the Reef and its long term future. The details of that
plan will be released today.
DH: And looking forward it to, we in Townsville so very close to the Reef,
from the trawlers point of view, the fishing point of view, commercial
fishing and, of course diving. Have you ever gone for a little bit of
diving?
PM: Yes, I've been for a little bit of a dive.
DH: What part of our Reef here?
PM: I've been off Port Douglas, north of here and on the Reef south of here
off Gladstone.
DH: All right, mate, I noticed you mentioned last night that regional areas
like Townsville lead the Australian economy, as industrial and
population growth shifts from the cities.
PM: That's right. I think that there is a view that people in regional
Australia think well, they are remote from the centre of the action and
they are not always considered or thought about. In fact I think, it is
worth repeating the point that the growth is greater in many regional
areas of Australia than it is in the capital cities. This is certainly true in
Queensland. I mean, Queensland not only has the, sort of, nature
running for it, a temperate climate, it has also got a shift of population
from the south and it has had despite that, lower levels of
unemployment and faster levels of employment growth because more
is happening here. So, regions such bs Townsville are growing faster
than the cities and the industrial basis of the place, if you like, the
things which Ted has been involved with over the years whether it be
the port or the water supply or the rail system or, you know, the
general facilities provided by the Commonwealth like a regional tax
office, all these things which are encouraging to business and, I think,
a commitment by the community to see the place advance. Local
leadership has mattered a great deal and that's why I think regions are
kicked along.
Anyway what we said in the White Paper is we are out there
supporting regions. We want to help them help themselves. We will
fund them in terms of developing strategic and regional plans and we
will also make infrastructure funding available through infrastructure
bonds for those bits of public infrastructure which are important to
regions at a particular time.
So, I'm very bullish about the regions of Australia and I think the ones
which are engaged in trade with Asia, we've now made such an
enormous leap into Asia, we've been exporting our heads off, and we
need the facilities like the port here at Townsville, but beef, agriculture
generally, minerals, coal, all these sorts of things are important in
trade and, I think, as the business community gets its pecker up about
its capacity and its confidence to do trade and do it well in Asia, I think,
particularly the northern regions of the country are going to really fire.
DH: Not shifting Canberra up here are you?
PM: A bit of that warm weather would do us all a lot of good.
DH: Good morning, Dutchy.
C: How you going mate?
DH: Good mate. Say g'day to the boss.
C: How you going sir?
PM: Good, how are you going?
C: What I'd like to know and, I think, a lot of people ask this question, is
why do the politicians and ex-politicians continuously get lurks and
perks while we're in so many economic problems?
PM: Well, I don't think people get lurks and perks. I mean a back bencher
is paid a salary and an allowance, most of the allowance they spend
and, I think, Government works in this country. If you look at the last
ten years, I mean, Australia has changed more than any western
country. Ten years ago we'd never had, for instance, a major
international tourism industry which has come by virtue of the
deregulation of this economy. We never had an efficient
manufacturing sector as we have today. We never had internationally
traded services like education and health as we have today. And, it is
no accident therefore we are growing at 5 per cent and our inflation
rate is 1 per cent and that we are leading the western world in these
growth rates and in this economic performance.
Now, a lot of that has come from leadership in the political system. A
lot has come from the community joining with those policies and
making it work. So, I think the notion that the public is poorly served
by their system of government is wrong. I think Australia has shown
that its system of government works and it works effectively and it
works well.
C: No, I'm not saying that the government isn't working well. I'm just
saying that back benchers for instance, they've got an annual รต alary of
$ 74, 000. I mean, haven't they just vote on it whenever they want.
PM: No, no, it is set under wage principles. It is set, in the case of Federal
MPs, the Remuneration Tribunal. It is set independently and it has
been now tied to a division of the public service. So, it doesn't move
really until public service salaries move and, of course, public service
salaries move with general movements in salaries across the
economy, across society. So, MPs essentially caught up in, if you like,
community wage shifts and can't simply I mean, technically the
Parliament can vote itself a rise, but it doesn't do that. It has given this
power to a tribunal which gives it then increases under wage
principals.
DH: Ok, Dutchy, thank you very much, good on you mate. Mate, the
Australian Institute of Marine Science is getting a big grant. What's
happening there?
PM: Well, it is I'm very pleased to say and today I'm announcing that too,
but let me tell your listeners that the IBM company an linternational
Business Machine company is giving one of four grants world wide to
the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority for research and, I think,
this is a great feather in the cap of the Authority and a substantial
grant as well. And, again I think, proves the point that we do seriously
manage the Barrier Reef and the authorities we have doing it are
getting international attention and international support.
DH: Well, it's a beautiful spot down there. Have you been down to AIMS,
it's great down there.
PM: Yes, I've been a couple of times in the past. I've had a few looks over
it. Ted and I were down there about a year ago.
DH: And with all the prawns. The aquaculture there is great you get big,
big prawns. Go to the phones once more. Good morning.
C: Good morning.
DH: How are you going?
C: Good, how are you?
DH: What is your name mate? Ok Harry, say g'day to Mr Prime Minister.
C: Hello, Prime Minister, how are you?
PM: Good.
C: I was just wondering why is it necessary for you to be hitting Mr
Downer over the head with a warm lettuce rather than, in fact, what is
required would be a pair of bolt cutters.
PM: Well, look, the public will take care of Mr Downer. We have these
people who shoot onto the scene and they are going to do wonders
with the big stick and then we find that their detailed policies are only
going to be basically what shall I say, not detailed at all but just
rhetoric and some intimation of where their policy directions are going.
Now, public life in this country, the public of this country demand
change and they keep the political system up to it and if you are in the
market place, but you don't have any ideas, you soon get found out
and no amount of, sort of, conservative waffling by Mr Downer is going
to safe him from a harsh judgement at the next election by people who
say well, hang on, we've got competitive disciplines and pressure on
the government, we are going to have it on you too and you are not
going to be exonerated. But, you see, what's happened to the Liberal
party, they had Andrew Peacock in 1984, they've had blanc mange
policies. He lost, so they said we better go to harder policies so we'll
take John Howard. So they went to harder policies and they took John
Howard and he lost. And, they said, well, that's pretty bad, we better
go back to not really standing for much, that way we can't be attacked
so they put Andrew Peacock back in. He lost again. So, they said,
that's no good, we better go to something harder. Let's get us some
real policy definition. So, they took then John Hewson on. And then
he lost. Now they're saying well look, he lost because he had policies,
so we are better now with somebody who doesn't. So, we'll take on Mr
Downer. So, its soft, hard, soft, hard, soft. You see, you get the
sequence soft, hard, soft, hard, soft, so we've got another softie
there.
DH: Ok mate, thank you very much. One more call, good morning.
C: G'day.
DH: How are you mate?
C: Good. I'd just like to ask Mr Keating a question.
DH: Ok, make sure you finish every sentence with an ' ay' you know that.
That's the great North Queensland way.
C: OK. I've just read that the Labor government takes 32 cents in tax in
every litre of fuel, but only about 10 per cent of this goes back into
road funding. Why would this be Mr Keating?
PM: Well, let me just say this about tax generally. You've got to look at tax
across the board. This is the Idwest taxed country in the western
world. Now, that's a big statement, but let me just repeat it again.
According to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and
Development, that's the western world, if you like, economic research
secretariat the OECD. Of the 27 member states of the OECD, that's
all the industrialii& d cauntries, Australia has the lowest rate of tax in
the western world and that comes by way of income tax, company tax,
excise, et cetera. Now, all of this goes into a pool and then it is
allocated back to the States by way of financial assistance grants in
part and to Commonwealth functions such as pensions et cetera,
including road works. Now, the Commonwealth does the national
highway and the States do the arterial roads and the city arterials and
the country roads. So, you can't really look at it and say, so many
cents per litre comes here and so much goes there because we don't
hypothecate every dollar that comes in petrol back onto roads because
we pay it to the State. They spend money on roads, they spend it on
hospitals.
C: So, were does the balance of the 90 per cent of all that tax go to?
PM: Well, that figure is not right. The fact is the money goes to
consolidated revenue and when you go down to the doctor and you get
your 85 per cent rebate, you're getting part of it back there. When you
drive on the road, if it's a national highway, you're getting part of it
back there.
C: Ok thanks.
DH: I've got to ask you one thing. The commemoration last year, you
couldn't make it up.
PM: No, because I had functions either side of that.
DH: OK next year year we've got our year celebrations of the peace. Do
you think you could come and say g'day?
PM: Let me just say this, we've got last year we had the well, through
1942 50 years later 1992/ 1993. We had the 50th anniversary of the
Coral Sea battle and the battles of Kokoda and I went to Papua New
Guinea and to Kokoda as I've been in many parts of the pacific to the
Solomon Islands, but you can't do everything and I've just been this
year to D-Day celebrations in Europe, in Britain and France, for the
anniversary of the landing at Normandy and, of course, next year
will be the VE-Day victory in Europe and VP-Day victory in the
Pacific. So, victory in the Pacific, the Government is very committed to
making clear that it was in World War II that Australia was threatened,
that continental Australia was under threat from the forces of Japan in
World War II which was not the case in World War I and we want to
make clear that the battle for Australia and the battle for the Pacific
was something that our nation should never forget and should rejoice
in our victory and appreciate the people who were involved with it.
So, next year will be a big year for remembering those involved in the
Pacific war.
DH: Well, being in services and proudly a services city, it's good to hear.
We look forward to seeing you up then. Mate, I know you have to go.
Thank you for your time.
PM: Thank you.
DH: Next time I watch Parliament I expect to see that tropical Friday shirt.