PRIME MINISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER, THE HON P J K~ EATING, MP
INTERVIEW WNTH KERRY O'BRIEN, LATELINE, ABC TV
29 NOVEMBER 1993
E& OE PROOF COPY
KOB: Paul Keating before we go to the broad thrust of this interview I'd like
to start with a couple of issues that are running at the moment, firstly
your dispute with Malaysia's Dr Mahathir. Do you now regret your
comments in Seattle that Dr Mahathir is recalcitrant and that you
couldn't care less whether he comes to APEC meetings or not.
PM: I think the important thing is that we've had no official indication from
Malaysia, that they regard, I mean Dr Mahathir apparently has gone
out of his way to say that he didn't require of me any apology and that
his main interest is getting on with our relationship and that's my main
Interest too. I had a very good talk with him in Limassol during the
CHOGM meeting and since then I wrote to him the day before I left for
the APEC meeting saying we would look at his problem with the Indo-
Chinese boat people to see if Australia could take some of those
people so it was a friendly environment. Since then I have done
nothing except to keep this relationship on a reasonable keel and I
think that is what he wants too.
KOB: In Seattle, the body language that was coming from you that matched
the words was one of frustration. What was coming from you was
frustration, it was like I couldn't care less.
P M We have got Senator Cook going there this week, and Senator Ray.
So, from the Government's point of view we are showing every
willingness to maintain a good businesslike, and might I say, cordial
relationship.
KOB: But that wasn't reflected in those comments. I am curious to know
what sparked them. It surely wasn't just a question... 7
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PM: Well I had been asked too many times. I must of been asked this
question I am not the only APEC attendee I am not quite sure
whether every other APEC attendee was asked as often as I was
asked in the previous month or so, about Dr Mahathir's attendance.
KOB: But not every other nation has as tricky a relationship as Australia has
with Malaysia, as sensitive a relationship as Australia has with
Malaysia, and your Government has done a great deal over the last
year or two years to try and heal previous wounds, and previous
perceived slights, haven't you now put that at risk? And isn't that,
given the stress that you yourself are placing on the importance of
trading relations with countries like Malaysia, isn't it somewhat self
indulgent?
PM: Well we are not hearing, there have been no requests from the
Malaysian Government, they are not saying ' we require an apology".
This is all basically..
KOB: What are the signs coming from Malaysia? He says he is
disappointed.
PM: there is a whole lot of basic sort of media chatter about it...
KOO: Dr Mahathir himself said he was disappointed.
PM: in the business of feigned indignation. There are a lot of hard things
been said about Australia and Australians. Now, I don't take weekly or
monthly Indignation at it, I don't go requiring statements to . be made, I
don't go expressing disappointment. That is part of, I think, part of the
rough and tumble of national and international life, and I think that is
fair enough. But the key thing is, Is the core relationship here good
and working well? I think it is.
K01B So when you say " feigned Indignation" you believe that sometimes Dr
Mahathir's expressions about Australia are feigned?
PM: Let me say this, let me leave Dr Mahathir out of it. Most of the
comments that come from Malaysia come from Ministers other than the
Prime Minister, and from other people in the Party and the press.
K01B: But if one of your senior Ministers were to make a public expression
about one of our neighbouring countries. That neighbouring country
would be quite within its rights to see that as an expression of the
Government. So why Isn't it an expression of the Government when
some of Dr Mahathir's Ministers are personally insulting to you, and Dr
Mahathir hasn't distanced himself from those comments. He hasn't
reiterated them, but he hasn't distanced himself from them.
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PM: He has been given a chance to endorse them, and he Seems to have
let that opportunity go by. I think that Is a sensible sign, and I am
prepared to say and confirm my wish that the relationship continue as
it has been going and our ministers will be there.
KOB: It was reported on the front pages of this morning's papers that Or
Mahathir had privately supported a boycott on some Australian
business. Now, If those signals are real, Is it worth you swallowing
some pride and apologising to Or Mahathir for any perceived slight?
PMV: Well should there be a matching set of multiple apologies for the
slights against Australia? I mean should there? Do you think there
should be? I am asking you, that is what you are putting to me.
KOB: Well I am asking you. Is that how you weigh it up?
PM. No, I am just saying that in international affairs one has got to basically
roll with some of these things, and just get on with the main business.
KGB: Another domestic issue that is running at the moment is Sports
Minister, Ros Kelly's, $ 30 million hand-outs for sporting facilities.
PM: Kerry, look, I am here to discuss the broad picture, I think that was the
basis of the Invitation, not to go down the highways and byways. Was
it or not? Let's make that clear.
KGB: But as I have said to you, well what it was to do was to talk about your
Government in this past year and to look ahead. And there is a
contemporary Issue running, which Is running quite strongly about one
of your senior Cabinet Ministers, and an Auditor-Generals report about
whether she was pork barrelling in handing out $ 30 million. Are you
saying you simply won't discuss it?
PM: No, no. I am not saying that at all. I am just saying that there has got
to be a nook or cranny of the Australian media who we can get across
some of these smaller issues to the bigger Issues. Hopefully this
program remains one of them.
KOB: Well thlere are many people who regard that as quite a significant
issue, and I am prepared to spend about two minutes out of thirty on
this, if you are?
PM: The answer is, those are three or four members of the Opposition
frontbench and half of one side of the corridors press gallery.
KOO: And the Auditor-General?
PM: Look, the Auditor-General is on the record, his position has been very
clear about this. T2EL9:. Nov. 93 18: 17 No. 014 P. 03/ 14
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KOB: How do you read his position? Do you say he has no concerns about
the way that money was granted?
PM: There was no basis for political bias.
KOB: He didn't say that Ms Kelly's office asking her Department for details of
electorates In which grant applications were located, but then not
being prepared to put that request in writing, he didn't say that that
would then open the way and lead to speculation about motives behind
the selection process.
PM: But Auditor-Generals will always provide those sort of comments in
annual reports. I mean the whole issue is about the propensity of
these things to go to marginal or Labor electorates. Generally these
are where facilities are the least best.
KOB: Yes, but you had a situation where in the first two years of this
particular program $ 20 million was spent, but in the three months to
January 1993, just before you declared, called that election, a further
million was allocated, most of it to marginal electorates. And that
was a program that was supposed to run until the middle of next year,
suddenly it is all allocated in three months against all previous
practice.
PM: So, what's the point?
KOSB-The question that has been raised is, was it pure coincidence, the
timing, and the difference in the pattern that in the course of three
months Ros Kelly slots in $ 30 million of sports grants, questions are
asked in the process of determining those grants about what
electorates they fall in, and the implication has been drawn that it is
pork-barrel ling. Now, you are saying that it is not pork-barrelling, and
you have full confidence in the way that Ros Kelly did it?
PM; I have full confidence in Ros Kelly, one. Two, there is an enormous
paucity of facilities in sport and recreation facilities in this country.
This program has been an important part of helping it. A lot of
municipal authorities just don't have the financial horse power to do it,
the sporting organisations don't, and I think a lot of these localities that
have been mentioned should take note of the Liberal Party's attitude
that they resent these funds being spent in those particular areas and
they should well long remember the fact that the Liberal Party has not
had this premium on supporting amateur sports.
KOB: There's also the matter of the Senate inquiry Into Conrad Black's
increased acquisition to the Fairfax Group, it was sparked by that. Is it
beneath your dignity to attend that Senate inquiry? lb; lf NO. vi4 r. u4iiq
PM: Look, Kerry, let me just endorse what Laurie Oakes wrote a week or so
ago, saying it is about time we required a new you know, millions
of tax payers dollars being spent on basically wasted and worthless
inquiries. Now, I am not going to be part of that charade, I made that
very clear. I can't remember any other Prime Minister appearing
before a Senate Committee, and any way they are loaded terms, they
are rigged terms. I mean the Democrats didn't stand Dr Hewson up,
the terms were to be Mr Keating's conversations with Mr Black, Dr
Hoiwson's conversation with Mr Black. The Liberals twisted the
Democrats arms, they gave up on the fast term of reference. Now,
Dr Hewson's views about foreign investment in the print media, not his
conversations with Conrad Black. So, this has been put together by
the Liberal Party and the Democrats on terms to suit Or Hewson, so
why should I bother with him?
KOB: Did you as Conrad Black wrote in his book, when you met him, or
when he met you In January of 1992 just after you had become Prime
Minister, did you say to him that you thought the previous Government
decision to limit his holding in Fairfax to 15 per cent as quote, " shitty
and outrageous"?
PM: No, I did not at all.
KOO: And did you indicate to him as he says you did, that he should just give
you six months to allow things to settle down and you would sort it out?
PM: No. Look, I was not in the Government during the time Conrad Black
was given his authority to go to 14.9 per cent. That was all done while
I was on the back bench. His case to me was he couldn't manage the
company on 14.9 per cent, now In the end the Government accepted
that view. That Fairfax needed management, it needed capital, it
needed a new printing plant, and it needed that managerial sense to
-be brought to It. We had to weigh those, juxtapose those against
whether how much of the stock should go, and whether the national
Interest should be protected, that is whether or not foreign interest in
these two major broadsheets and financial newspapers should be less
than 50 per cent. As it turned out the Government decided that. I
mean, the core thing here, the hub bub is caused by John Hewson.
Now, Conrad Black told me expressly on a number of occasions, he
said, John Hewson has made it very clear to me that he is completely
relaxed about how much of the stock we own, they don't regard foreign
Investment as an issue at all. And I said what, he will let you go to 100
per cent, and he said yes, but I don't need 100 per cent, I just need a
majority of the stock. I repeated that to a lunch of Fairfax editors late
last year where there was Mike Steketee, and Ross Gittens and Max
Walsh, and hosted by Mr Mullholland. So, I mean I am not just wise
after the event, I said it at the time when it wasn't in a sense
newsworthy. d-Z I I U V .7% V A V -A I 11W a-
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KOB: But when you had that January meeting With Conrad Black, you didn't
indicate to him that if he gave you some time you would fix it, you
would get it up to 25 per cent, because you thought 15 per cent was
outrageous?
PM; No. Why would anyone think 15 per cent was outrageous? Here was
a foreign person, foreign company coming along getting 14.9 per cent
of John Fairfax and Son and told by the Government in the press
statement Mr Willis issued that was all they would get. Now, what I did
say was that we would consider some increase which would
consolidate his management. But the core matter here, Kerry, is that
John Hewson attacking me and the Cabinet for agreeing to give
Conrad Black 25 per cent of the stock in John Fairfax and Son when
he was prepared to pass complete control of the company away.
KOB: But what he is particularly attacking you on beyond the 25 per cent is
on the basis on what Conrad Black said, that you had promised him
that you would entertain going higher if the Fairfax reporting of this last
election was balanced.
PM: No, look, in fact Mr Black raised the question of balance. The only
matter I raised was the question of accuracy and reporting. He said to
me in the first conversation that he wanted to move the Herald and the
Age more towards the British broadsheet standard of accuracy. And I
said to him this is a good thing, this needs to happen, there should be
more presentation of news and less of views. Comment that a news
copy should be news copy Where the reader has a chance to read.
That was the matter I raised. Not In fact about the balance, but
someone asked me on what basis do you get a right to consider the
balance.
KOB: And you said because, I am Prime Minister.
PM; We, the Cabinet, were the deciding authority, that's why.
KOB: On deciding balance in newspapers?
PM: No, that is when we decided despite the opposition we received from
the Herald and the Age, editorially, and news management terms in
the election campaign, when we had to decide at the Cabinet whether
we would allow Black to take from 14.9 per cent to 25 per cent. That
was decided by this Cabinet.
KOB: Ok. When you were talking about accuracy on your version of these
various conversations that you have had with him, his own accuracy
leaves a great deal to be desired. He would probably say yours does.
PM: Well I think It ( Black's) does. May be I have missed something, Kerry,
who should be deciding these matters? The man outside Hoyts? I
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mean who is the person that decides these things? It is not the
Government?
KOB: it Is not a question of who decides, it is a ques tion of how things are
decided, and what the perceptions are of how they are decided,
perceptions that others have drawn?
PM: Well what are the facts? The facts are that this Government has
limited telegraph newspapers interest in John Fairfax and Sons to
per cent of the voting stock, fact one. Fact two, John Hewson on
behalf of the Coalition promised Black he could take his stock to full
control of John Fairfax and Son, that is the objective fact. Yet he has
had the hide, Hewson, to try and pin me, but now of course the game
Is changing, and he Is going to be appearing before the Senate
Committee and he will be asked a few hard questions.
KOB:-And you are not.
PM: No, I am not.
KOB: You are going to say at the end of this that we have spent too much
time on it, but I have got one more question on Conrad Black, did you
really tell him in apparently expansive mode on the verandah of
Kirribilli House overlooking the Sydney skyline after that January
dinner, that amongst other things you had promoted the interest of the
entrepreneurial classes against the excessive appetites of the Labor
unions.
PM: Well, that's Conrad Conrad is a wordsmith.
KOB: Well, behind the words he is saying that you took pride in the fact that
you have promoted the entrepreneurs against the excessive appetites
of the unions.
PM:-Of course I didn't say that. Why believe that text? I mean Conrad is a
wordsmith and a romantic and he writes all these things and obviously
he likes people to know that he..
KOB: He also thinks that you are a great Prime Minister and he is an
extremely conservative person in terms of his political views.
PM: He is more perceptive perhaps than we might of thought he was
originally.
KOB: From his conservative perspective he thinks you are not bad. I wonder
a lot of labor people would be a bit discomforted by that.
PM: Let me just tell you this. That my conversations with Conrad Black, like
any conversations I've had with any other persons similar to that are
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entirely proper and juxtaposed against Australia's national interest and
I have always taken the view that in these big broad sheet newspapers
that our national interest is a real and live issue and we didn't pass off
to Conrad Black control of John Fairfax and Sons. That is the key
point. That is the key decision of the Cabinet and the person who
wanted to give control away willy-nilly in his arrogance before the last
election was John Hewson taking foreign visitors, the next Prime
Minister taking foreign visitors. Oh yes, you want John Fairfax and
Sons you can go and have it.
KOB: Well he is on tomorrow night and he will no doubt put a different view.
After two years in the job..
PM: Let me just say, Black has made it very clear in his text on a number of
occasions what he said. He made it clear to me. I repeated it in
December in the Fairfax board room, so iet's pin that one.
KOB; After two years In the job, how would you like to think people perceive
. you and your Prime Ministership?
PM: That I am continuing to hammer home the issues that will set Australia
up in the 21 st century.
KOB; Well, if we take one of those issues Mabo. You have got the Greens
getting In the way again of what you want with that legislation, so they
appear to be intransigent at this stage on that and it would also seem
from public feedback from opinion polls that to the extent that you have
tried to make this break through on Mabo that you have not carried the
bulk of national opinion with you. You have not really carried the
people of Australia with you otherwise why would so many of them be
saying that they want a referendum?
P M. Well, you wouldn't know. Maybe they want a referendum to guarantee
that Aboriginal people have title to their land. Some would want a
referendum to knock native title over. The only time we put a
referendum about whether the Commonwealth should have power over
issues In relation to Aboriginal welfare, it was carried in 1967 and I
have got no reason to believe other than understanding in the broad
Australian community about the need to right these wrongs and to be
able to address Aboriginal policy, Aboriginal issues is firmer today than
it was in 1967.
KOB: How are you going to get around the Greens this time?
PM: I think the Greens are standing four square against the best interests
of the Aboriginal and Islander community of this country.
KOB: But they have got two pretty crucial votes? T2EL9: . Nov. 93 18: 17 No. 014 P. 08/ 14
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PM: Well, in the end they have got to cast them.
KOB: How long can you afford to wait. I mean in the end you have to wait for
as long as it will take?
PM: We will have to wait until the Senate votes on it. But, in the end
nobody can go hiding. They are going to have to sit on the side of the
chamber where they believe their interests are, but if they sit on the
side of the chamber of the Coalition they will have the result they will
have to live with it for the rest of their days.
KOB: How will you deal with the Greens next year in terms of not just Mabo,
but every important piece of legislation. There is every prospect that
they are going to stick their heads up and make it extremely difficult for
you.
PM: I think the same basis we do with the Democrats. That is, we argue
the case about the value of the legislation as we did with the Budget
and we will do that again.
KOB: What is your personal bottom line onMedicare. You have effectively
stopped Graham Richardson from recommending an increase in the
levy for wealthier tax payers who refused to take out private health
insurance. How else will you solve the problems of hospital queues
and declining private health Insurance?
PM: I don't think even Graham believes that a levy is going to solve
anything like the problem. He himself says it is only a contributor and
a fairly minor contributor. There are other strategies for dealing with
that. He spoke about those over the weekend. He Is talking those
strategies through with some of the interested groups in this and also
with the Caucus and at the right time, not too far from now, he will
bring the matter to Cabinet.
KOO.-But you did head that one off at the past didn't you, you didn't wait for It
to come to Cabinet to have a discussion about that?
PM: Well, it had been thrown around the public debate by Graham amongst
others for some months.
KOB: Well yes and you.
PMV. No, no, not by me until I finally said something about it. I don't want to
see a health system where there Is a well off people's health system
and the poor people's health system. Where one breaks away from
the other, so we end up with a welfarebased wealth system where the
best surgeons and practitioners are not participants and the well off,
well to do health system where anyone who can afford it gets the best
care. The great thing about Medicare Is that it is stuck together as one
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ILsystem,
It Is a universal. Universality Is not just an easy word Kerry.
Universality means that the poorest person in Australia can go into a
hospital and get a very good surgeon to perform work on them and
alternatively where they can go to the general practitioner of their
choice. I don't want to see that get to the point where we have got
basically a degraded public health system and degraded and
degrading and moving away a private health system. But nor does
Graham Richardson might I add. But it is a matter of how we tailor the
system so that those who would otherwise seek protection by private
Insurance are able to get it at reasonable premiums.
KOB: OK, we are getting close to time and I have got a number of issues I
would still like to get through with you so maybe we can try and do
them as briefly as possible. On the republic what is a reasonable
time to allow discussions in the Cabinet sub-committee on the Turnbull
recommendations before the full Cabinet considers recommendations
from that sub-committee?
PM: We are not rushing to a referendum on this, I made that pretty clear.
We have got until 2000 2001 in terms of our partys policy to make
such a shift and I think that is going to require a fairly relaxed and
protracted debate in the community. But, we have now an important
document from Mr Turnbull's committee which really does shed some
light upon what needs to happen for the various modes of such a
change. Where before no such authoritative document existed.
KOB: But will the Cabinet sub-committee come at some point during next
year, come up with some recommendations for Cabinet to consider on
the basis of that committee?
PM: I don't know. I think that we will proselytise in favour of an Australian
republic because in the end the identity of Australia, can only in the
end, be represented by Australians and by an Australian as our head
of state. I think that is self evident. And it is on those matters, I think
but what you are portending Is a Cabinet discussion leading to a
Cabinet submission leading to a referendum sort of, A B C.
KOB: No, not necessarily.
PM: That Is exactly right in that case.
KOB: But you still have a commitment ultimately to a referendum?
PM: This can only be changed by the Australian people of course. Of
course I do.
KOB: More likely than not in the next term or am I going too far ahead for
you? Z O. NUV.* JO 10-i( NO. U14 r. IU/ 14
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PMV: I don't know, but certainly we would like to see it in place before the
turn of thie century and It ought to be In place because the country
cannot I don't think, culturally draw Itself together and make the kind of
change it needs both internally and externally being at all uncertain
about itself or not prepared to see itself governed in every way by
Australians.
KOB: Do you accept some wisdom In the comments of some in the
republican movement that your high profile in the game has been to
some degree divisive and it has lead to political partisanship which has
damaged the republican push?
PM: Kerry look, before the Government took this on as an Issue, made it an
Issue in the election campaign, an element of the policy speech this
was a coffee and after dinner mint discussion.
KOB: OK, next point. I am told that the long-term unemployment task force
does favour some sort of tax levy to directly fund more employment
and training Initiatives. The ACTU made public a very strong
submission to that affect. What is your latest thinking on that?
PM: Well, I haven't got the report yet and I can't you are able to confirm
you say what's in the report, I can't so I have got to wait until I see it. I
think the key thing Is..
KOB: But you have seen the reports of the ACTU submission. What do you
think of that?
PM: Well, I haven't seen the ACIU submIssion myself.
KOB: Well reports.
PM: I have seen reports of it that is fine. I understand where they are
coming from. The key thing is the Government said, I said In the
election campaign we would not leave the unemployed behind. That
is, we wouldn't march on as a society and forget them and marginalise
them and that I think, is the important point. The Government will have
unemployment and dealing with it and particularly long-term
unemployment as a key objective In the course of this parliament and
the receipt of this task force report will be central to our consideration
Of it.
KOB: You point out so often that your interest as Prime Minister lies In the
big picture and yes, there are signs of some good things on the
horizon in some important areas of the economy at least. If it is such a
big, important picture out there and these really are the watershed
years that you describe them as, what on earth are you doing also
worrying about pictures hanging on the Cabinet wall and what sort of
pictures you should have or worrying about the style of table for the
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Lodge to the extent that that diverts the public from what you are on
about?
PM: I am not diverting the public about this, it is this bitter Opposition. The
bitterness started in 1975 while ever the Labor party was in Opposition
it was there laying fallow. We have now succeeded at five general
elections, we are eleven years in office and the bitterness that
pervades Dr Hewson and his colleagues is so profound that..
KOB:-But aren't you handing them the material?
PM: No, no. Please don't talk over me. W~ hat they did is make these things
an Issue in the Parliament every day at Question Time and if they are
therefore they are public issues. They are not for me.
KOB: But can you understand why large clumps of the electorate would react
very negatively to an Image of a Prime Minister in a time which is still
very tough out there for many Australians, still nearly a million people
unemployed, this image of a Prime Minister arguing about a special
purchase of a particular kind of bird for the Cabinet wall.
PM: But, I'm not arguing about these things. These were literally two or
three minute discussions at some stage in my life over the last twelve
months a couple of minutes.
KOB: But why should you spend that amount of money $ 80,000 or $ 100,000
whatever it was on a particular kind of painting for your walls?
PM: Basically because the Cabinet room was unfumnished. As simple as
that. People come there, look around and the place whose
responsibility is it for those simple tasks? Where is the authority to do
anything? And it basically comes from the occupants of the executive
building of which I am the head. Remember this though Kerry, this is a
five minute conversation, now the fact that John Hewson without a
policy, embittered over his defeat in 1993, all that front bench of his
from Howard down absolutely embittered by the fact that they are
facing another term of Opposition want to have Mr Connolly rifling
around through these Issues, It is their priorities which have been
chosen, but they will have to be judged on them. Remember this, the
day that I presented the Mabo legislation and the day before I flew to
the APEC meeting, I had to deal with these issues in Question Time. It
is Dr Hewson who you will be seeing tomorrow night you ought to put
these questions on to where is his policy framework? Where are the
big issues?
KOS. OK, but you as Prime Minister and as a politician and a leader of a
political party have to deal yourself with the public perceptions of your
style of prime ministership and on the one hand you want us all to
focus on what you are doing with APEC and what you are doing with
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Mabo and what you are doing on Industrial relations and on what you
are doing with the republic and all these other things.
PM: And inflation and growth and all the other matters.
KOB: Well let me put to you the kind of perceptions that are coming through
and yes they are Liberal studies; yes they are Liberal surveys, but It is
private Liberal research qualitative and quantitative that has been
done largely in the lead up to the South Australian election which says
tehlaitti stt'h, e'by uirledcinogrd ad peaslacrciep tifoonr sy ooufr syeolfu', ' liinkteo le'praonwte ra nddr unnakr'r, ow'im mpeinrdiael'd,
when you are crossed', In short hand used to making that these
people, the electorate used to make allowance for your aloofness and
arrogance because they respected you as Intelligent, dynamic and
unafraid there is a couple of words you might like, but in short you
are seen as a man who can't manage power.
PM: If you believe Liberal party research Kerry, you are off your head. The
same people who are parroting this stuff were putting that around
before the last election how they were going to walk in. The federal
secretary of the Liberal party is one of the best assets the Labor party
has and it is mainly because of this sort of nonsense. Don't take any
notice of it. In the end, the public look for value, they know that this
Government is trying to make Australia's place In Asia with APEC; they
know we are trying to do the big things about our national identity
including with Mabo; they know we have succeeded in restarting the
economy, it is now growing at about 3 per cent; they know we have
broken the back of Australian inflation for the first time In two decades;
they know we are going to deal with long term unemployment those
things they know. They know we are going to protect their health
system, that they know. And on the big issues it is only the big issues
they vote in that ballot box, so all this stuff goes to the keeper and
-while it Is interesting at the time and it is the stuff of press copy, I don't
think it matters a tinkers cuss.
KOO: OK, last question. Very serious this one. Why do your antique mates
call you ' mona'?
PM:-Well, it is just untrue. It is just another bit of nonsense.
KOB: Oh, is that right?
PM: That was a Valerie Lawson thing. * She dug that up, that was just
nonsense as well.
KOB: I know they certainly all have nicknames for each other. Did you miss
out did you? I S~ I~ ZZP. riUV. V, . LO. Lr rNu. vi' r. 1014
mLL. ZV. 114UV.: P,. JL 0 If VNI U IA F-m 4. L I~
14
PM: They do, but I don't have any as far as I know and I'm quite sure I
would know at this time, but of course that is all part of the Colour of
Queen Street or ' Konigstrasse' as they call it in the eastern suburbs.
But you know, the Herald being middle class as it has been, the journal
of the yupples, this Is right down the main street of yuppiedom that and
the Financial Review and that is basically why these sort of pieces are
written.
KOB: Paul Keating, we are out of time. Thanks for talking with us.
PM: Thank you.
ends