TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH THE HON JOHN BROWN,
RADIO 2UE 17 DECEMBER 1990
E OE PROOF ONLY
BROWN: I've been joined in the studio by the Prime Minister
of Australia, Bob Hawke. Good morning Prime Minister.
PM: G'day John.
BROWN: Good to see you here.
PM: Good to be here mate.
BROWN: Looking hale and hearty.
PM: Feeling well.
BROWN: Golf handicap of 16.
PM: Yes mate. Still prepared to try and get your money
BROWN: You've been getting it too regularly mate. I'm a
bit worried about this. I'll have to stop giving you
lessons. Well you're now the longest-serving Labor Prime
Minister and the second longest-serving Prime Minister in
Australian history, second only to Sir Bob Menzies, having
replaced Malcolm Fraser as the second longest-serving Prime
Minister. You of course were brought up in Western
Australia. You attended the Perth Modern School together
with John Stone, Billy Snedden, Garrick Agnew and other
luminaries ort the Australian scene. Your father was a
Congregational minister and a chaplain through the war. And
I guess to a great extent your view of our returned soldiers
was fashioned by your experiences with your dad and the
repat hospitals.
PM: Yes, dad was an army chaplain, as you say. And then
after the war he went back into the church and was parttime
chaplainL at the Hollywood Repatriation Hospital in
Perth and thetn he became full-time chaplain there. He did
that for over 20 years. So I got to know at first hand
through dad, the concerns of the veterans themselves, but
also the sense of obligation as a community we should have
towards them. It became instilled into me very early.
BROWN: Well one of the highlights of your Prime Ministry
given that background must have been the trip to Gallipoli
this year Prime Minister.
PM: It's impossible to describe John the impact that had on
me and I think on everyone that went there. As soon as you
see the place you realise the impossibility of the mission
that was given the troops and the gallantry, the sheer
heroism of them going in and staying there for that period
of time. I actually went down and got into the trenches,
walked along the trenches and I had the advantage of having
a military bloke with me who's an historian in this area.
You're just overwhelmed by the, as I say, the gallantry and
the heroism. You could see why this did shape, it shaped
the Australian nation. We'd only been one nation for
years then. We'd just been previously these six battling
colonies. We'd become one nation on January 1, 1901. This
was what shaped a sense of Australia. I was just moved
beyond measure by it.
BROWN: I think we all had that feeling back here in
Australia, listening to the radio reports, particularly
those from Brian White, the late Brian White.
PM: Yes, marvellous.
BROWN: -this station of course. He was on that trip
with you.
PM: Yes, he was.
BROWN: And also the television cover, as vague as it seemed
to be in the morning light listening to those
PM: One of the great things about that early morning
service I think that touched me more than anything was you
had already -there in place, they'd been there overnight,
young Australian tourists, teenagers and 20 year olds.
There they were, eager, and then up came these old veterans,
the average age of over 90, just making their way up past
these young Australians. The bonding that took place
between them, the just outpouring of affection from the
youngsters for the old veterans and the way which the
veterans responded to them, it was like all the generations
of this century coming together and recognising what the
young owed to the old and the way in which the old were
proud of the young. It was very moving.
BROWN: They were a wonderful bunch of old diggers weren't
they. They're all of them in their 90s and
PM: Yes, amazing.
BROWN: I think there's been a couple of them have died
since. PM: Yes, there has been.
BROWN: I mean when you think about blokes like Jack Ryan.
PM: Jack Ryan is a remarkable fellow.
BROWN: He's the joie de vivre of the
PM: Old flirt. He flirted with Hazel from the time he met
her. Incorrigible, the old Jack. He's a lovely man. Of
course we were able to get him his new little chihuahua and
he loves that little dog.
BROWN: What, since he's come back?
PM: Yes, he'd had one before and it had gone so we
organised this new one. He just is a remarkable character
Jack Ryan. Very very fine man.
BROWN: And I suppose in lots of ways he's representative of
the spirit of ANZAC.
PM: Yes. Well when you see the physical conditions John
under which those blokes had to exist, then without that
laconic sense of Australian humour and mateship I don't
think they could've survived. They would've gone mad.
Because it was not just the pressure of fire from the Turks
in the superior position above them where they were able to
pick them off day and night. But it was the lice, fleas,
and the physical conditions were just unbelievable. Men
lost 20, 30, 40, 50 pounds. It was just unbelievable.
BROWN: Your uncle had been a Labor Premier in West
Australia had he not? I guess that's where your political
beliefs were fashioned, from your family background and your
uncle' s influence.
PM: Yes, and my parents. My uncle was a Labor Member of
Parliament. He used to come to our place in Perth at least
once a week for a meal and it was certainly how a lot of my
political thinking shaped there. But also very much by my
dad and mum. They weren't sort of Party members or anything
like that. But their philosophy was clearly one of what you
should be about in life is trying to help others and the
sense of commitment and obligation that you have if you've
got talents and time and so on that that ought to be used to
try and make the community a better place and help those
less fortunate than yourself. So it was a combination of my
dad and mum and my uncle that shaped my philosophy.
BROWN: I remember sitting in your office in Canberra one
Sunday morning a couple of years ago and we were putting
together those advertisements for Buy Australia. The
ubiquitous Singo was sitting there and he said to you, now
look Prime Minister, he said, I know you've got awards from
around the world. He said you've got awards from the
International Labor Organisation in Vienna, you've got an
award from the Government and the people of Israel, you're
the recipient of the Commander in the Order of Australia
which makes you the highest level of Australia
PM: Companion, mate. Companion.
BROWN: Companion sorry, Companion in the Order of
Australia. You've had all sorts of adulation. You've been
Father of the. Year. You've been Australian Prime Minister
for all these years. He said to you that day, I reckon
you'd swap all of those things if once you could've worn the
green and gol~ d and competed for Australia in a sporting
event. Was that a true statement?
PM: It was a true question but I wouldn't have. I mean if
I couldn't have done these things I would have loved to have
played cricket for Australia. But I wouldn't swap anything
for the indescribable honour of being the Prime Minister of
the best country in the world. That's what this country is.
And to be Prime Minister of it is, you wouldn't swap
anything for that. Nothing.
BROWN: Not Even a baggie cap?
PM: Not even a baggie cap. Not even a baggie cap.
BROWN: Well I suppose
PM: Not even Dean Jones' baggie cap.
BROWN: Well I suppose in a very real sense you've played
for Australia every day for the last 25 years or so in
public life.
PM: been in public life now for over 30 years. I went
to the ACTU in 1958 and became sort of well-known as the
advocate and research officer. In 1959 I was conducting all
the cases and then in the present in 1970. So I've been
there in publ. ic life for about 30 years now. It's been a
great experietnce.
BROWN: Now l. isten, we' re in a real capitalist world here.
We're going t~ o take a break and-
PM: Got to nmake a quid mate.
BROWN: Got t~ o get a quid for the station.
( commercial break)
BROWN: Prime! Minister, you must have had high spots and low
spots in your career as Prime Minister. Tell me, what have
been the high Spots? Let's go to the good stuff first.
PM: Well thet high spots. One of the higher spots you've
already referred to the visit to Gallipoli. It is really in
one sense just on a plateau by itself. There is nothing
that can quit~ e match that. Without being exhaustive about
it, I mean the conference, the Special Premiers' Conference
we just had in Brisbane a while ago, it's not a sexy thing.
You know it doesn't jump out and say wasn't that marvellous.
But in terms of the future of this country that was a
highlight because for the first time we had a Prime Minister
sitting down with the Premiers of every State, and Chief
Ministers of the Territories. They all agreed with me that
we had to work together to make this a better country, make
the governments of Australia better. We've set down a
process and -things are happening which will mean that your
listeners, the ordinary citizens of this country are going
to get a better delivery of services because we're going to
have the good sense to work together and not against one
another. That was for me a very very important highlight.
I also, you can't point to a particular time when this
happened, but to be able to change the education
participation rates in this country was a great thing for
me. When we came to office you only had one in three of our
kids staying on in school and we committed ourselves to
changing that. We've turned that right round now so it's
two out of three of our kids. When I go to the schools and
into the education system and see now that it's not a
question of money, wealth or privileges as to whether kids
stay on but -they are all now moving to stay on in the
education system. If they've got the talents then to be
trained further in the tertiary system or the technical
system or the apprenticeship system. That for me in a long
term sense is probably the thing that I get the most
pleasure out of John.
BROWN: But * 1 can recall in your early days as Prime
Minister being very proud of the fact that a lot of the
divisions in the community had receded, in fact disappeared,
and that we weren't at one another's throats.
PM: recalling that summit in ' 83 when I thought we were
as a nation -just dissipating ourselves by fighting one
another. You had unions fighting employers, everyone seemed
to be at one another's throats. So calling that summit and
getting the employers, the governments, the trade unions,
community welfare organisations, local government, getting
them all together, they'd never before met. They committed
themselves to trying to work together rather than fight one
another. That was very much a highlight for me. It's
worked. I mean we now have in this country 60% less
industrial diLsputes than we had when I came to office.
That's a highlight for me. I think Australians do work
together better than they did before. I certainly
appreciated what you were saying before at the beginning of
your program this morning, that we've got to understand that
we've got an enormous number of advantages in this country.
We've had to slow things down. I know that people, some
people, are hurting and it's a matter of sorrow for me. But
really we're going to come back very, very much stronger as
we go through 91. If we remember that we depend upon one
another and we've got to help one another, continue that
spirit of the Summit then I think we've got an enormous
future as a nation.
BROWN: I won't get on to sport yet cause that's a different
thing. Tell me about a few of the low spots, you must have
had some low spots.
PM: I have had some low spots. I think for me the
continuing lowest I mean it's not just one time but it
continues, in a sense, to be a low spot for me, was the way
in which a great positive achievement by this country, and
not just by me and the Government, but a great positive
achievement by this country has been made into a negative.
I refer to the question of children in poverty. When we
came to office we had a situation where the Government, the
Federal Gover-nment, was not doing very much of significance
for low income families and children and this worried me.
We did a number of particular things. Then as I went up to
the 1987 election I'd prepared with people involved, Brian
Howe and others, we got this idea that we would, as a
Government, r-eally pay an enormous amount of money to low
income familiLes so that there'd be no financial need for any
child in this country to live in poverty. We made it a
highlight of the 1987 election and we've poured, by the
Family Allowance Supplement, we've poured, each year over a
billion dollars directed right into the lowest income
families in this country. In the speech that I delivered
here in Sydney in the Opera House, in explaining what we're
going to do, I'd set it all out in the major written
attachment to the speech, and said we would create a
situation where there would be no financial need for any
child to live in poverty. In the written speech I said our
goal will be that no child will live in poverty by 1990.
Now I've been hounded and the Government's been hounded with
that,' of course, there are children living in poverty now
but no-one acknowledges the fact that we delivered on our
promise that there'd be no financial need. We have
delivered what we did with the money, well over a billion
dollars a year, to those in need. The welfare organisations
have acknowledged that this is more than, not only has ever
been done in this country, but there's no country in the
world which matches what we've done in meeting that
financial corrmitment to look after kids in low income
families. Now of course you can't deal with the situation
where the kids leave home and the money is not used by the
parents to look after the kids. I mean, unless you're going
to live in a totally Draconian society, a totally command
economy, you can't deal with that. We've delivered
something that's never been done anywhere else. A massive
delivery of money to the families of low income people where
the kids are. Yet that
BROWN: In a home environment.
PM: In a home environment. That achievement which is
recognised by those in the welfare sector as unmatched in
the history of this country, unmatched in any other country,
that great achievement just gets lost in this cry about no
child live in poverty in 1990. That's a continuing hurt for
me. BROWN: Yes, well I guess it's a measure of the way that the
things can be twisted around. But I suppose you still must
smart and hurt at the spectre of homeless kids
PM: Sure.
BROWN: As yo) u explained, there's really not much you can do
to assist those kids that aren't living in the home
environment. You can assist families
PM: Although in respect of creating funds with the States
for shelters, we've put an enormous amount of money, another
million just the year before last which we put into
that. More money than has ever been put before into
providing funds for shelter for the homeless you can do that
but in any society there are always going to be some who
fall through those safety nets you create. I just think
it's terribly sad, you know, that there's this political
opportunism that says, well you know just bang, bang, bang
no child should live in poverty, and ignoring the fact that
in regard to the specific promise that we made and that as
a community ere are benefiting from that we write all
ourselves down by not acknowledging and I think that's sad.
BROWN: Stil. the Press tends to run away with things. I
remember having a conversation with you a couple of weeks
ago, you were telling me about a visit you had to Melbourne
one Friday arid a couple of nice stories and then the story
that appeared on the Sunday's press. Tell us that story.
PM: Well, I went down to Melbourne to do two things of
very, very considerable significance. In the morning we
went out to the western suburbs of Melbourne to open this
new unit of the Western University. First time it had a
university in Melbourne in the western suburbs and this was
one unit of it. It meant that the kids out, and not just
the kids but the adults that wanted to go on in tertiary
studies, were now having the opportunity of doing it out in
the western suburbs rather than going to where the
universities always were in the more affluent sections.
That was terribly important and then in the afternoon I went
and opened a tyre factory. Pacific Dunlop group were
opening it. It will be the most modern, state-of-the-art
tyre factory, with big tyres these are for trucks. The
most modern, state-of-the-art factory in the world, will
have better productivity than anywhere, will be exporting a
very significant proportion of its total production. So the
Press were there at the university they were there at this
factory which is competitive, beat anything in the world,
adding to Australia's exports. They followed me around, we
had a press conference and I was asked about that fellow the
ex-diplomat who said he was going to go
BROWN: Go to Iraq as an envoy.
PM: He was going to go to Iraq and in the end didn't go.
He'd made a quite incorrect statement about Australia's
involvement and I'd corrected him. I hadn't gotten into any
vicious attack but had corrected him and said what he said
was wrong.
BROWN: You didn't call him a silly old bugger.
PM: No, I didn't. Whatever I thought about him I didn't
say that. I just factually corrected him. So what was all
the Press story about. Not about the university in the
western suburbs. Not about Australia's new most modern in
the world State-of-the-art tyre factory but about Hawke
having a proper go and a warranted go at this fellow who was
telling untruths about Australia's involvement in the Gulf.
Now that sort: of thing I find sad.
BROWN: But wasn't there, the same weekend, a story about
you being at Frank Lowy's birthday party?
PM: Yes that: was a good one. That was a good one. I was
flying down there that day. I think it was a Friday. I was
flying down there. I was looking at the Sydney Morning
Herald and I read through it and I got up to the financial
page and I was reading that and then I saw this caricature
of Frank Lowy who is a friend of mine, has been for zonks of
years, well before he became rich and famous.
BROWN: He was a mate of mine when he had a smallgoods run.
PM: Yes he had a smallgoods, yes that's right. So I said
what's this about. So I read it and it said last Saturday
night there wras big party to celebrate the 60th birthday of
Frank Lowy. There were many celebrity people there from the
world of politics and business including Bob Hawke who,
according to all accounts, this was the phrase, who
according to all accounts made a highly emotional speech.
BROWN: Highly emotional speech.
PM: The only problem with that is that Bob Hawke didn't
speak. I was; there, I didn't speak. But there was this
phrase, according to all accounts. I mean, what do you do?
BROWN: Look we'll come back to this in just a moment.
0 We've got a few advertisers here who want the ears of our
listeners. PM: Good on them.
( Commercial break)
BROWN: Prime! Minister, you're sitting in here with me and
we're delighted to have you. On the line we've got
Commodore Don Chalmers of the HMAS Darwin who's steaming
down the east: coast on the way home from their service in
the Gulf. We've arranged for you to speak to the Commodore.
PM: That's crreat.
BROWN: Your conversation with the Commodore and also with
Captain Russ Shalders, who's also there, will be relayed to
all the crew on the Darwin. I might tell you that there are
fathers of' the sailors travelling round from Darwin with
the lads on the Darwin. Good morning Commodore. Good
morning Commodore Don Chalmers. Hello have we got him there
somewhere. Hello. Hello Commodore. I think we've lost him
somewhere. We'll have to try and get the line back. Well
we'll carry on with something else at the moment.
PM: It's exciting. I hope we do have the chance of talking
to him John.
BROWN: We've lost the line somewhere. It's the magic of
modern radio.. But we'll get them back there somewhere. We
were talking about high spots and low spots. I guess
talking about: Iraq it might be a question to ask you.
People seem 1: o think, in their mistaken view, that making a
decision that: you had to make about sending our sailors to
Iraq is made as a political decision. You know, I've
realised tha: the extraordinary impact this must have on
your mind. The extraordinary impact that prime ministers in
other times have had to shoulder that responsibility of
making decisions about the lives of young men and women. I
mean, exactly what sort of an impact does that sort of
decision make on you?
PM: It' s immeasurable. I mean, it's hard to describe. I
mean,' I just sat there by myself when I knew we were going
to have to come to this and just sat closeted by myself
thinking about it. Paradoxically, as I said, it was perhaps
the most serious decision I've taken as Prime Minister but
in the end one of the easiest because it was crystal clear
in my mind, as I thought through it, what Australia's
obligations were in this regard. I knew we had to be part
of this process. I knew there was the risk of actual
conflict. Risk of action in which people could be injured
or even could die but we've come to a new time in world
affairs where we have to be prepared to keep the world order
in a condition where aggression will not be paid.
BROWN: Yes, I guess it must be an incredible responsibility
to have to undertake as, of course, prime ministers and
leaders of countries have done in the past. Roosevelt in
the United States, Churchill, John Curtin in Australia. I
suppose in the micro sense you've had to undertake to
yourself the same responsibility. I know that it must bear
very heavily on your mind. So there must be some joy in
seeing these kids come back socially.
PM: It,' s marvellous.
BROWN: Seeing the hostages return. So we now have
Commodore Doni Chalmers on the line and your message will be
relayed to the fleet, not just to the Darwin. Good day
Commodore. Hlow are you?
CHALMERS: I'm very well. How are you?
BROWN: Well I've got the Prime Minister sitting here. He'd
like to talk to you.
CHALMERS: Thanks very much.
PM: Don, could I just say, personally, and on behalf of the
Government, most importantly on behalf of the people of
Australia, to you and the crews firstly how proud we are of
the job you've done. You've been involved in a very, very
large number of intercepts and actions which have been
involved in making the sanctions works. So we're first of
all very, very proud of you. We thank you for what you've
done and we welcome you back to Australia so that you will
be able to have Christmas and the New Year with your loved
ones. I'm looking forward very much to coming out on the
ship when you arrive off Sydney on the 21st so I can say
directly to you and the men thank you for a job well done.
CHALMERS: Thank you very much indeed for those kind words.
We certainly look forward to seeing you on our return to
Sydney. I think, in you saying how proud you are of what
we've done I must add that we, here, are particularly proud
of what our men have done. All Australia can be proud of
them. They've been particularly adaptable, they've
improvised and most of all they've met absolutely every
challenge that's been thrown at them.
PM: All the reports I've had, Don, confirm absolutely what
you've said. It's not only the reports I get from our own
service commanders but from what I hear from other forces,
Australians, as always, have lived up to the challenge and
they've performed mightily. Now of course the ships that
are moving in that have moved in to replace you are going
into a position where there could be an even greater risk.
But I know firstly that you, and they, will hope that that
doesn't arise because neither the Government, the people,
nor the forces of Australia want war but if conflict does
arise I know that, as in the past, they will do this country
proud. I never cease to have a great sense of pride about
the way in which this small country has always accepted its
share of responsibility. We are a nation that wants peace,
loves peace but if it's necessary to fight to preserve peace
then we're there.
CHALMERS: That's certainly true and I know that they're
pretty well prepared to go into the Gulf and do what has to
be done, if it has to be done, in the same way that we were.
As you well know we left at very short notice, not really
knowing what we were going towards and there's no doubt that
these two ships that I'm bringing back now were in very good
condition to fac*. e anything and indeed the ships themselves
were too. Theiir serviceability was quite fantastic. When
we arrived up in the Gulf all our mission critical systems
were up and when we left they were still up. So not only
have the men done well but the hardware we've got's done
pretty well too.
PM: Well I'm vary pleased to hear that, Don, because as
everyone knows iLt was relatively short notice and that's, I
think, a very considerable reflection upon the quality of
our Navy that W43 are in a shape that when a crisis does
occur that in a very short time we can put ourselves in a
position to discharge the obligations that arise. Don, tell
me all the reports I get are that the morale of the crews is
high. Is that true?
CHALMERS: That's very true. morale's very high. We are, I
guess, pleased -to be coming home for Christmas, for some
short leave and some, and then maintenance for the ships,
maintenance for ourselves and then back for another work-up
and ready for a third deployment if that's required.
PM: Yes well of course I guess you, like myself, hope that
that's not necessary but I know that that's precisely what
you'll do if it's necessary,
BROWN: Now Don, it's John Brown here. Now I can tell you
that the morale of those lads will be lifted when they see
the reception they're going to get when they come back into
Sydney on Friday morning. They can look forward to that
with great anticipation, I'll tell you.
CHALMERS: We c4artainly Will. I mean the support we've had
while we've beein away has been fantastic. You know, not
only from our families who, I guess, we take for granted.
We expect them -to support us but the people of Australia,
the thousands of school children that have written to us,
it's really been absolutely fantastic. This sort of welcome
home certainly changed from the last time we had forces
overseas. BROWN: Well it's been a thrill for our listeners to be able
to correspond with you directly like that and thanks for
coming on the line.
CHALMERS: Thaniks very much.
BROWN: Thank you. Well that was Commodore John Chalmers on
the Darwin steaming down the east coast on the way back
after a triumphal visit on Australia's behalf to the Gulf of
Oman, being part of that United Nations and world effort
against the oppression of Saddam Hussein. Just getting back
to you, Prime Minister. I know you're a very affectionate
man and a man who's extremely emotional on lots of things.
There have been criticisms directed at you for the fact that
you do show ycour emotions and I can recall two very dear
friends of min~ e, two of the roughest, toughest blokes I
know, Keithy H.~ olman who had 24 tests against England in
Rugby League and Johnny Raper who'e an even tougher bloke
than and they both said now listen you tell Hawkey
nothing wrong with crying, I cried every time I ran out
on the field for Australia. Raper says he cries every time
he thinks about putting on an Australian jumper. So I don't
think the criticisms have been valid and I think most people
have been pretty happy to see that we've got a Prime
Minister that is prepared to exhibit his emotions on some of
these issues.
PM: Well I think you're made the way you are. It's been in
a sense at timtes embarrassing I guess, that this happens.
But that's the way I am and I can't undo it and I don't want
to undo it
BROWN: Neither you should.
PM: And I don't feel, you know, in the end embarrassed by
it, John, though at times I suppose you wished it didn't
happen. But t: hat, as I say, that'. the way I am and I think
there's a lot of nonsense talked about it's manly not to
show emotions. I think this is nonsense. I don't think
really one should be ashamed if you feel deeply and it moves
you at times to tears about a particular issue. Well, you
know, that's it. I mean if you feel that way, that's the
way it is.
BROWN: Well t: hink about it, your daughter's illness, I mean
a father would be less than human if he wasn't upset, not
only about the problem but also enormously proud of the way
the way in which she's coped with that
PM: Magnificont.
BROWN: And then Tienanmen Square. I mean having those
Chinese students with you. I mean you'd be less than a man
if you didn't feel emotional about that.
PM: Yes in that particular instance too just before I went
out there I just received this cable and it was just
unbelievable, you know, the description of what had been
happening there of the, you know, piling up the bodies and
just crushing them to death and setting them on fire. I
mean, God, just mind boggling.
BROWN: Less than human behaviour. We've got to go and earn
another quid f~ or the station but we'll be back in just a
moment with the Prime Minister.
BROWN: Prime Minister, sport is an obsession that you and i
both share and I guess you must take a great deal of pride
in what's happened with sport since you've been Prime
Minister. Q) uite apart from the fact that the budget's gone
from $ 6M to $ 60M, there's a lovely story in the Press today
about John Newcombe out yesterday with some crippled kids in
wheelchairs, teaching them to play tennis and you might
recall that before I became your Minister for Sport the
budget for the handicapped was zilch. Now it's a couple of
million dollars. It's lovely to see these things. Now I'll
ask you thes questions in the context of Sydney's bid for
the Olympic Games. I mean no doubt the Commonwealth will be
having a good look at this, they don't want to be backing
losers or chasing rainbows. What are your feeling at the
moment? PM: Well I've had a discussion with Nick Greiner' and he's
writing to ine in fact the letter may have arrived I
don't know b~ ut he'll be writing to me setting out what they
need in money terms and also talking about trying to make
land available for the Newington area, they're talking about
there for
BROWN: accommodation, yes.
PM: There May be some problems about that, not in attitude
on our part but unexploded ordnance, we've got to have a
look at that sort of thing because it's been used for these
purposes for about 100 years. But I said to Nick, we'll be
cooperative, they may want some up-front money they said and
if they didn't succeed in their bid, well then they'd give
the money back. So I'm going to look at his letter and
we'll look at it very positively because you know, we
supported the Melbourne bid before, we would've been happy
to see them get it, they didn't, and if Sydney can go ahead
with a realistic bid and I would think they can then it
would be great for Australia if we could got it, absolutely
great. The, year 2000 would be very special and I know
you'll be around and I certainly hope to be, John. But you
look at what Sydney's got, I mean, there's not many cities
in the world who've got what this great city can offer.
BROWN: You put the seal on Sydney's greatness as a modern
city get those Games. I think we're a hell of a big
chance. PM: You know, we've been talking about it. It is the case
that Berlin has had it now on a number of occasions,
Germany's had it on a number of occasions. So there'd be
some attitude that, you know, they've been around. Now
Beijing, apparently there's some question about their
capacity, the infrastructure and so on quite apart from
what attitudes will be lingering over from last year.
There's no doubt that the Southern Hemisphere deserves to
get it. I mean it is incredible that in 100 years the
Southern Hemnisphere has had it once. it just is unfair.
When you look at the symbols, you know the five circles..
it's unfair.
BROWN: Yes~, true. of course Australia's record in the
Olympic Games has been one in
PM: one in three countris evary one..
BROWN: An extraordinary record of success for a young
country. It's; wonderful. Now just on one final subject
before you go. I'm not ambushing you on this. But on this
program some 12 months or so ago you made the announcement
that Greg Norman would be doing some ads for us following
Paul Hogan and Lawey questioned you about whether the money
could become aLvailable and I think all Australia's waiting
for Greg to be~ out there being the flag-bearer for
Australia. I know Greg is waiting with anxious anticipation
of going out there being the next Hogan. What's happening
there? You know the Tourist Commission has a bit of money.
PM4: I think you'll find that in a very short period that
they'll be getting what they need to use one of our great
drawcards and I think you'll be very happy in the near
future.
BROWN: I'll. tell you what a God Greg is in Japan. At Palm
Meadows Golf Course which you know very well the big
thing that the Japanese want to photograph is Greg Norman's
looker in the club house. with a camera.* I mean he
really is status. We've got to go. Thanks for coming
in, it's been a delight to have you here, Australia's second
longest servinig Prime Minister, someone who's done Australia
extremely proud over your period. The polls aren't greatly
in your favour at the moment but that's a transitory thing
and no doubt you'll be back firing on all fours. Thank you
for coming in.
PM: Thanks John and thank you very much and may I take this
opportunity of wishing your listeners a very, very, merry
Christmas and a happy new year.
BROWN: Thanks, Prime Minister.
ends
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