PRIM MTAIAISTETRANSCRIPT
OF' INTERVIEW WITH HOWARD SATTLER, RADIO 6PR
1 NOVEMBER 19,90
E AND 0 E PROOF ONLY
SATTLERs Prime Minister and husband of concert pianist
Hazel, good morning Prime Minister.
PM: very much second fiddle on that one Howard.
SATTLERt I asked one of your fellows over there what
instrument you played, but all he could come up with was a
nine iron.
PM: Was a what?
SATTLER: A nine iron.
PMt Yes, whatever instrument is necessary on the golf course
but she was tremendous last night Howard, I was very very
proud of her.
BATTLER. was she nervous?
PM: Well I went in to see her beforehand backstage and she
seemed very very composed to me but I think once she got in
onto the stage and was waiting f or it to start I detected a
little bit of nervousness but once it got under way she was
perfect. SATTLER: So what's the future, is she going to keep it up?
PM. well r don't know that she would be willing to fill in
regularly but her absolute passion is for helping young
musicians and she is patron of the young symphony orchestra
and I think she would be prepared to do anything which would
help them.
SATTLER: Alright, veil let's get down to the business you
have been involved in in the past couple of days in fact the
business of -the last eight years in office. What prompted
you to now talke action on the States funding and departmental
duplication? PM: well after we won the last election I was thinking
seriously about this question of how this country is governed
and what I could do to try and make it. better and so I made
this major speech at the Press Club here in July in which I
said that I ' wanted to call the premiere together and in a
true spirit of cooperation see how we could make the federal
system work be~ tter. I mean this federal system that we have
got is not the sort of thing that you would have if you were
working out an arrangement now as you were coming into the
21st century but it's the one we have got and therefore
intelligence suggests that you should try and make it work
better so I knew the things that worried the States about the
vision of taxing powers and what's called the fiscal
imbalance which simply means the difference between the
amount of money you raise and the amount of money you upend.
I knew their concerns there I knew also that my ordinary
fellow Australians were concerned that there was duplication
of activities between the Commonwealth and the States and
that we didn't. have a national road and rail system that was
working effectively so that they would get their goods and
services delivered in the most efficient way. So I said to
the States well come on I am dinkcwn about this I am prepared
to look at things and say if there are things that we are
doing that you may better be able to do or if the things we
can help in tha financial relationships well I am prepared to
look at that, and to their great credit all the States went
across the political boundaries. It was the Labor premier.
and also Nick Greiner in New South Wales they said alright
Prime Minister we recognise that you are dinkum we will
cooperate and t: he result we have got truly a historic outcome
yesterday which I think will change the face of Australia for
ordinary Australians over the coming years.
SATTLER: But is it going to mean Canberra relinquishing any
of it's taxing powers and if so which ones?
PM: Well what we have said is that we are prepared to look
at that. The premiers were saying well this is a very
complex issue# what they wanted was an expert working group
set up from us and from them which would go into all the
ramifications because they understand that it's not an easy
thing just to eay we will take that tax power or you give up
that one. What they wanted us to do was to agree to a group
of experts that: they would put up and we would put up f rom
our treasuries and to see what could be done and I agreed to
that and I agreed to it on the basis of aiming to reduce the
imbalance that exists between us and that's precisely what
they wanted and that's what I have given them.
SATTLER i Yesu but how does Paul Keating f eel about that. I
have to tell you on television last night they showed a f ew
cut aways and if those expressions were a ref lection of the
way he felt he didn't seem to pleased with some of what warn
being said.
PM: I have discussed theme things with Paul and Paul goes
along with then decisions that have been taken.
SATTLERt He agrees that the Commonwealth should perhaps give
up some taxing powers?
PM No, what he agrees with is that this matter should be
examined and that'. all that the States have asked for but
not just well we will look at it but we will look at it with
a view to trying to reduce this imbalance if that's possible.
But they, the States have accepted# all of them that in this
review we have got to take account of the necessity for the
Commonwealth to retain the capacity to manage and regulate
the economy. They accept that so that puts some degree of
constraint upon what may be possible but the important thing
is that I have said well we will go into to this in a dinku
fashion. That is we know what your concerns are and we are
going to try and redress that imbalance to the extent that
it's possible while retaining the capacity for economic
management that the national government, whoever is in power
must have and they accept that.
BATTLER: What do you think about these annual premiers
conferences where the envelope is literally pushed under the
door with the Commonwealth's first offer.
PM I have changed that I mean this is one of the things
that have coate out of the conference and they were very
positive in their response about the changes. The element of
the changes were these that we will undertake that there will
be meetings in the months leading up to the premiers
conference theire will be meetings between the Commonwealth
and State at the treasury level and they will provide us with
information months in advance. We will do the same thing and
actually in February of each year there will be a meeting at
the head of treasury level and another meeting three to four
weeks before the annual conference so that the interchange of
information will be in a much more structured way and then I
have undertaken that they will get our documents two days
before the conference so it's not shoved under their door on
the early hours of the morning that we meet they will get it
two days beforG.
SATTLERt It's not the sort of thing you want to talk over
breakfast is it?
PM No it was inelegant and I think degrading a bit for the
premiers the way it was conducted. I recognise that and we
have changed it.
SATTLERs Nov do you now say that you trust governments like
the Victorian and West Australian governments to handle money
they way they want because as we all kcnow they have been
rather irresponsible in some of their forays into private
busniness in recent years.
PM They have certainly had troubles both of them in their
interventions into the private sector area. But in regard to
the actual conduct of government expenditures and the
discharge of their traditional obligations I think they have
been responsibile but they certainly have burnt their fingers
by going outside their normal area of operation.
SATTLERt And promised not to do that any more have they?
PM: Well that'. not what we have been about, we have been
about the question of the actual relations between the
Commonwealth antd States. I mean this is not an exercise in
telling each state government how they conduct themselves
that's a matter for state government.
BATTLERs Which areas of federal state departmental
duplication do you see being eliminated can I nominate a few.
Can I nominate say health, education, transport, community
services?
PM: Well they are all in the area that are going to be
examined we are not only waiting for examination but will
indeed, agreed at this conference that for instance the area
of disability service., there is so many of our fellow
Australians who suffer from disabilities and that's been an
area of very considerable duplication. So we have already
made the decision now that the States will accept
responsibility in the area of accommodation services that are
provided for the disabled and the Commonwealth will accept
responsibility for the employment related side of that area
so there is a decision that has already been made in that
area. Now the ones that you have mentioned about duplication
of services we have got timetables there in all the areas
that you were -talking about. The area of home and community
care services will be the subject of an immediate
investigation and report back in May and the areas of health,
aged care, houasing, child care, supported accommodation
assistance procrram,, education, those are aoing to be subject
of investigation by working groups now to report back before
the end of next; year so that we will then work out how we can
eliminate the duplication that in all of those areas exists
now. So there has been agreement on principles, commitment
now to the working parties to resolve unnecessary areas of
duplication and that will result in some of these areas the
actual delivery programs going over to the States and the
Commonwealth Iretting out altogether but in some areas
obviously there will still be a need for action by the States
and the Cmmonwealth but we will have that operating in a
more efficient way than it has up to the present.
SATTLER: But isn't sam& of this going to be like trying to
write Sir Humphrey out of Yes Minister. I mean how are you
going to get the bureaucrats to agree?
PM The distinguishing feature about this meeting was the
determination. of the political leaders at the Commownealth
and State level to set the agenda. we will not be frustrated
in our comitments by any people who are trying to hold onto
existing empire. whether it be ministers in our governments,,
whether it be bureaucrats in our public services or be it
people in the) private sector who to some extent will be
threatened by some of the changes that we are bringing in.
SATTLER: Well it sounds like you are expecting some
resistance. PM: Well the whole of hlmn history shows that where people
have a privileged position or one to which they were
accustomed and enjoy certainly as in some sectors they are
getting service. at a lower cost than they should they will
always fight to protect their position of privilege.
SATTLERs YOU are talking about the truckies now to a
. degree, aren't you?
PM: Some extent there although I am very encouraged by some
of the responses that I have seen already from the transport
industry generally who recognise the need for change. But I
have got one slimple criterion in all this that I have had
from the beginning when I launched this initiative in July of
this year, one simple criteria. What is it that's good for
the Australian people, what is it that is necessary to
deliver services at a lower cost and to do it more
efficiently and I will not be diverted from that criterion by
the attempts by anyone to maintain present positions of
privilege. SATTLE~ t So would you agree that some of the road hauliers
are going to be put out of business by increased fees?
PM: Not necessarily. I mean it may happen it will have an
adverse impact on some of them but the simple fact is that
the Australian citizen, your listener is being disadvantaged
currently by the fact that the, and it's true all over
Australia, that those who use the road system and impose the
heaviest strain cause the most damage to the roads are not
paying in anything like an appropriate cost recovery sense.
That means that we are getting a distorted transport system
in this country, we want to make a mere efficient rail
freight system in this country that's why we have agreed, all
of us to establish a national rail freight corporation we
will put more investment into rail so that we can have more
efficient movement of goods by rail. Now it's not going to
be any good doing that and putting money into making a more
efficient rail service if they are not going to be operating
commercially against a heavily subsidised road system so your
listeners are gloing to be better served by getting the
PX.: ( cont'd) efficiencies in what we are talking about now.
As I have said yesterday Howard there never has been a tim
in history whore economic reform is bought about without some
pain, that's the way progress in made. You just don't leave
things always the way they have been in the past, we would
still be back in the caves if we operated like that.
Leadership is an I have maid about leading and if at times
that involves some opposition so be it. But we are now in
the very fortunate position as a result of this initiative
that these things have been decided upon by all leaders, the
Commownealth a~ nd the States across the political spectrum so
those who want to fight as it were, we have got a pretty
unified sort of force they are up against.
SA'DTLERs Talking about Opposition, at the moment the opinion
Polls and I ) now you don't like to talk about opinion polls
PM: I don't mind talking about them.
SATTLERs Alright. Well the opinion polls today the latest
ones I have seen show that Labor is 16% behind the coalition.
Why do you reckon that is?
PM: Well a number of reasons I don't think it is very
difficult to work it out. It goes back in part to some of the
things we havet just been talking about we have had to take
some decisions which have caused some pain. The fact is that
last year we wire as a nation just spending More than we were
producing and that meant we were getting further and further
into debt and we couldn't go on doing it so we had to slow
the economy down and that meant, it has meant and it is
continuing to mean a fair bit of pain and suffering. Now I
think you have known me long enough Howard to know that I
don't like doing those things but I had to do it because if
we hadn't done it then the damage to Australia in the longer
term would have. been much greater, the suffering more intense
and I wasn't prepared to do that. Now while people are
suffering now we are getting some black marks for it, I
understand that I am not complaining about it I would be much
more worried about myself if I hadn't done the things that
were necessary. But having said that these policies will
work they are slowing down the level of activity and it means
we will be ablo I think next year to move into higher and
more mutainable levels of activity in which people will start
to get more confidence and they will be able to operate in a
situation of leas pain.
SATTLERt YOU zaekon that you would be beaten if their was a
poll held this week?
PM: Ye I think so I said that I wouldn't like to go to a
poll now but the f act is I have just won a poll. I don't
have to go to a poll for well over two years, about two and a
half years and as you know I have said bef ore when we have
been down, we were down badly before 87, we were down badly
before
SATTLERs But not this much.
PM: No not this much but we hadn't had to hurt so much and
we didn't at that stage let me may we hadn't had the disaster
of Victoria and that's reflected in the national figures.
Now all I ami saying is that I said before the 87 election in
the dark periods, I said before the 90 election in the dark
Periods, I said in the and I have faith in the good sense of
the Australian electorate and there in nothing that's
happening which causes me to lose that faith.
SATTLER: What about you personally you are down to 31%. Do
you think the novelty of Bob Hawke has worn off?
PM The novelty, I mean you are not novel after you have
been Prim. Minister for the best part of eight year. of
course by definition.
SATTLER a Do you think that people want change for change
sake in the leadership?
P34: Not at all, not at all they are hurting at the moment
they don't like that and of course the other thing in respect
of leadership is that the conservatives have got rid of the
absurd merry-go-round of Howard Peacock Howard-Peacock Howard
Peacock Peacock Howard Peacock Howard
SATTLERs I veto going to ask you about that. Do you think
that John Hews on is a bigger challenge to you than them?
PM: Well he is at this stage because he has the benef it of
not being Howard and Peacock. I mean people have got sick of
that absurdity and John Hewson was going to be a beneficiary
of that. Now we get into a different part of the political
cycle as we move on now, go on and on through this three year
term up towards the election and he has got to live not on
just being not John Howard or Andrew Peacock, he's got to be
a credible leader with credible policies.
SATTLERt He known a bit more about economics than Andrew
Peacock doesn't. he?
P14: It's impossible not to.
SATTLERi Charming. Do you think he has got much substance
behind him then?
PM: He's got a solid academic experience but he has no great
experience in the range of issues that a leader has to deal
with. I mean if there has been one f eature of the last f ew
weeks of the parliament it's been the revelation of his
abysmal ignorance in the whole area of international affair.
He ha. been profoundly wrong footed successively in regard to
Japan, in regard to South Africa and in regard to our
8.
PM: ( cont'd) relations with the USA. I mean he can'It open
his international af fairs mouth without putting his f oot in
into it and so perhaps he can learn in that area, he
certainly ought to sack whoever is attempting to advise him
at the moment to put up the questions that he
SATTLERe Would you, even if the poll., your own polls show
that you are behind coming to the next election, will you
still make good your promise to lead Labor into the next
election? PM Yes I have got no intention of changing that and nor has
MY party.
SATTLERs What about your Cabinet, do you think that they are
a bit tired these days. Do you think that they need another
shake up?
PMI This is a nonsense this question about tiredness, you
have had more relevant activity by government in this last 12
months than you have had, I would think, I would challenge
political analyst. to look at any period of government, mine
or non Labor when there has been more relevant activity on
the macro economic front, the micro economic front, the
international front then there has been in this period. I
mean there is no serious analyst now in politics who goes on
with that sort of myth.
SATTLERs Can I ask you one of the questionsp a story
circulating here last weekend and it's been around before
that Brian Burke might meek preselection for a Labor seat
after he finishes his term as ambassador to Ireland. Would
you support him if he wanted to do that?
P11: I would have to look at the circumstances. I mean I
don't know anyt~ hing about what he may have in mind.
SheSA? TTLERs Well he in coming to see you in a week or two isn't
PM: is he I don't know about that. I mean if it'. scheduled
I certainly look forward to seeing him but it would depend
upon obviously what he was looking at and what agreement he
had within the party in Western Australia. I mean
SATTLERt Well you once told me that he would be an asset as
a minister in a federal government.
PMe I did to., I had no reason to say otherwise when that
question was asked. Now if he is wanting to pursue a
political career and I don'It know whether he is then the
question of my attitude to that is not simply a function of
the judgement I make about Brian. I think he is a person of
very considerable talent, but it would depend upon what
circumstances was he looking at to try and make an entry into
politics if that is in his mind and I honestly don't know
whether it iii, all my comments to you are entirely
hypothetical.
V I. 9 SATTLERs Would you still regard him an an asset if he wanted
to. PMS I think there is no one who knows Brian Burke who
believes other than that he has got very considerable talent*
but an to whether he wants to try and pursue a political
Career I just simply don't know. I mean you are really into
the area of hypothesis am far as I am concened.
BATTLER: Alright well we will leave it on that and I
appreciate your time today and am I said at the start it
certainly seems to have been a watershed in relations between
the federal and state governments and I guesn it's all going
to be, the proof will be in the meeting you hold in Perth in
a year's time.
PM: Well not all the proof, I mean there will be a lot done
before then and indeed Howard a lot has been done already.
The fact that we all signed yesterday an agreement to
establish a national rail freight corporation which will come
into ef fect by the f irst of July next year that is now a
fact. It's alsia a fact that we have agreed yesterday to the
division of rosponsibilies in the area of disabilities. I
mean changes have already been made there will be more
changes will be finalised in May next year. I t isa true
however, that t: he conference in November next year in Perth
will be a very important one but by then Howard we will have
a lot of very substantial achievements already under our
belt. Yesterday can properly describe, I mean it is the
proper use of the word historic to describe what we did
together and I am very very grateful to all the premiers for
their cooperation including may I say to your listeners the
very very signif icant contribution that was made by Premier
Carmen Lawrence.
ENDS