PRIME MINISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH RON EDWARDS, RADIO 6PR
24 AUGUST 1990
E OE PROOF ONLY
EDWARDS: One of the good things in life is talking to a
friend of mine and that's the Prime Minister of
Australia, Bob Hawke. Bob, welcome to the program.
PM: Thank you very much my dear friend.
EDWARDS: Good to hear you over here in Perth. We had a
busy week in Canberra.
PM: Yes, it's been a busy week in Canberra and
unfortunately a busy week in the world in some respects.
EDWARDS: Yes, that was one of the questions I wanted to
ask you. There must be a great sense of burden on your
shoulders with this Iraq situation. Do you really feel
that burden very much?
PM: Yes, to be honest I do, because we've got a
situation now where so many Australians are there as
hostages, is the only word you can use. I agree with my
friend George Bush who's used the word. It's what they
are. That is an extraordinarily worrying thing. It's
taken up many many many hours of time because I seek to
be updated continuously almost of developments in the
area. So in addition to it being a normally busy time of
the year Ron with the Budget, we've had very many more
hours involved in that. So a bit tiring but we're
smiling.
EDWARDS: Good. Bob could I ask you this question? It
must have been very emotionally demanding seeing the
fami-lies when.. the. warships departed. Did it affect you
very much?
PM: Yes it was very touching, and particularly with the
kids because they were very emotionally upset at seeing
their dads or their brothers going off into what they
knew could be a dangerous situation. But the spirit of
the families was absolutely magnificent. I was very very
proud of them.
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EDWARDS: Yes, they're scenes that we seem to have had
through our history of Australians going overseas to
fight some war. It brings back a lot of memories for a
lot of people I guess.
PM: It brings back Perth memories for me because during
the Second World War of course I was a student in Perth.
1940 to ' 41 at West Leederville State School and then
from ' 42 to ' 46 at Perth Modern School. The scenes of
the troops going and coming and of course Fremantle was a
staging port as you know. Perth used to be full of not
only Australian soldiers and sailors but Americans. And
of course the classic battles of the war were fought in
many respects in Perth and Fremantle between the United
States and New Zealand.
EDWARDS: Yes, yes. We had our own invasion didn't we.
PM: Yes, and some of the meetings between the United
States' forces and the New Zealand forces were memorable.
EDWARDS: of people in Perth who'd be saying well
look, I've got someone in Kuwait or Iraq, what do I do,
how do I find out what's going on? What's the best
advice we should give them at this stage?
PM: Through our Department of Foreign Affairs. Let me
say this. Our diplomatic representatives in Baghdad,
that's in Iraq, have been constantly at work. We have no
diplomatic representation although our consular
representative went down there during this week, in a
somewhat dangerous situation I might say, and contacted
the overwhelming majority of Australians in Kuwait. So
if there's any question, contact our Department of
Foreign Affairs and they will tell you what they can.
But I've got to be quite direct Ron and say there is not
a great deal of information available but they will know
who they have been able to contact, for instance in
Kuwait. So that's the way to do it.
EDWARDS: Right. Well thank you for telling us that.
Because the uncertainty is what gets to people as much as
the danger itself.
PM: Yes, I took the opportunity yesterday of ringing the
relations of the two Australians that we know have been
specifically hostaged in having been removed to exactly
where . we don.' t. know. But I_.. spoke to them and I must say
the spirit of those people here, knowing the great
potential danger of their relatives, was quite
remarkable. EDWARDS: It makes us all hope that there can be a
peaceful outcome to this rather than any conflict,
doesn't it.
PM: Yes indeed. The hope that you must have is that
there remains some degree of rationality in Suddam
Hussein because for any reasoning person the conclusion
in unavoidable that there is only disaster ahead for the
people of Iraq if he keeps on this course. Because there
will either be armed conflict emerge which they cannot
win and must not win or there is just simply the
continued impact of the sanctions which have been agreed
by the rest of the world which will mean their economy
will be run down to the point of destruction and their
capacity to live will be diminished. So the world is not
trying to punish the Iraqi people. Australia hasn't got
any argument with the people of Iraq. It's only with the
leadership that has embarked upon this sort of insanity.
So as I say, if there's any rationality there it should
lead to the conclusion that all that can happen is the
withdrawal of the Iraqi forces from Kuwait and the
release of the foreign nationals.
EDWARDS: It's an interesting point you make about not
having a war with the people of Iraq. Someone said to me
at the airport this morning if they take two Australians
hostage we should take two Iraqi people in Australia
hostage. And I said well the fight is really on with
Hussein rather than with the Iraqi people. The other
thing is I think even if someone in some part of the
world were to take some Iraqis hostage and threaten to
kill them I don't think Hussein would really care. It
seems to me that he's beyond that sort of
PM: Well there's the two points to make and you've got
them. The first is that we and countries like ourselves
are prepared to go to the lengths that we have because we
believe in certain principles. We believe in the
principle that there should be the inviability of the
borders of one nation from another, that armed aggression
cannot be tolerated. We believe in the sanctity of
individuals and their right to their freedom when
travelling in other countries. We don't fight for those
principles by denying them ourselves. The second point,
even if you didn't have that moral view which is what
we're fighting for, the second thing is as a matter of
practice, you're absolutely right that the tragedy is
that the sanctity of human life is not high on the agenda
of the leadership of Iraq. Indeed in recent years we've
seen a preparedness by that leadership to turn poison gas
on his own people.
EDWARDS: It's appalling isn't it.
PM: It is indeed.
EDWARDS: Can I ask you, seven and a half years in the
job with constant pressure, great demands. Are you
getting tired in the job?
PM: No I'm not. There are times when I get tired. I
mean for instance one night this week I only had a couple
of hours sleep because I was up on these matters that
we've been talking about. So obviously through yesterday
Iwas very very very tired. There was not much sleep
last night. Now I'm not complaining about that because
that's part of what makes the job the great job it is.
So there's a difference between at times in a particular
day feeling very very tired, but, and overall, what
your condition is. I can say overall I've never felt
better than I do now.
EDWARDS: I was talking to Ian Brayshaw one day. He said
he once bowled you in one of these media versus the
politicians' cricket matches. He said that you're one of
the most competitive blokes he's ever bowled to.
PM: I've always been like that. I mean, whether it's in
sport or studies or whatever, I've always tried to do my
best, I've tried to win. I think it's a double insult if
you don't. I think it's an insult to yourself not to try
to win and I think it's an insult to those with whom
you're involved, your competitors. I mean if you're not
giving of your best it's an insult to them.
EDWARDS: You must have done pretty well against Margaret
Thatcher to get her to give back the Australian
Constitution. PM: That was a hard fight.
EDWARDS: I reckon it would be. It was a great day
yesterday. PM: It was marvellous because as I said, that's the
birth certificate of the Australian nation. For
Australians who are proud of their country I guess
nothing can be fundamentally more important than that.
But I must give credit to Margaret in the sense that
while, when I first raised it, it was a firm no, an
explanation, that she did respond to persistent
representation, not only from myself but from others who
were working on our behalf, not least of whom was our
good friend Alf Morris, the Labor MP in the House of
Commons who is a great friend of Australia. And the
combined forces of reason prevailed.
EDWARDS: I'm running out of time Bob and I want to ask
you just a couple of sporting questions. But can I say
what would be the most emotionally demanding thing you ' ye
had to deal with since you've been in office? What's
the thing that's.. really drawn you-out and left you
feeling, gee, you know, that was a tough one. Can you
identify I mean obviously the Iraqi thing is
PM: That's most recently, as I've said, the most serious
decision. The single decision on which I've had to
concentrate most thought and satisfy myself just through
hours of thinking, putting all the arguments and weighing
things up, is of course the commitment of Australian
naval forces to the region. Because as one who all his
life has tried to fight for reason and the processes of
conciliation and peaceful resolution of disputes, when
you come to the point where you've got to make a decision
about committing your country's armed forces, you just
must agonise about that in the sense of just thinking and
going through every argument and balancing. The paradox,
as I've said, is while it was the most serious decision
I've had to take as Prime Minister, in the end it was a
simple decision because once you'd gone through the
process of thinking through all the arguments, sifting
all the facts and considerations, it was overwhelmingly
clear what the right decision was.
EDWARDS: Well Bob, 6PR's a racing and sport station
PM: It's appropriate that I'm on it.
EDWARDS: It is. Look, you've given me some great tips
over the years. I remember one year you tipped the
quinella in the Melbourne Cup in Caucus. Not everyone
took it up. There were doubters in the ranks. Have you
got anything that the punters could get their money on
tomorrow? PM: I have to preface my answer by saying that my study
of the form is always on Friday night. On Friday night
or early Saturday morning I get the Sportsman out and I
spend a couple of hours going through it in detailed
form. So having said that and saying that I haven't been
able to study it closely yet, I did, knowing that you
were ringing up, I got the sporting section out of the
Daily Telegraph and my eye lighted on the fact that in
the fifth race in Sydney a horse called Peacock was
running. It's an outsider, but it's scratched. I've
just found out So I would've loved to have Hawke
tipping Peacock. Now I can't do that but I noticed in
the eighth race in Sydney, and this is in Budget week,
there is a horse called Raise a Million. Now it ran a
very very good race last time in. It's got Shane Dye
riding it who is arguably the real in-form jockey in
Australia of recent times and he's a very astute man. I
know young Shane. He's a very very bright young boy and
he's got a magnificent future. Barrier draw quite good,
barrier three. So I would think that the listeners
should get a good run out of Raise a Million.
EDWARDS: Raise a Million, Race 8, in Sydney.
PM: Race-B, horse. 3.
EDWARDS: It will come home as well as Wayne Grady came
home? PM: Mate I talked to him afterwards. I rang him up.
Because I've played golf with him, pressed him very hard
in a couple of holes too I might say, but with the use of
a handicap. He's a lovely guy. I mean he's the sort of
fellow that Australians would just say my God, isn't it
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beaut to have an Aussie ambassador like that He's a
lovely man.
EDWARDS: Totally unaffected isn't he.
PM: Yes, he's a beauty. He really is.
EDWARDS: What are you playing of f in golf at the moment?
PM: 17.
EDWARDS: 17. All the blokes out there on Sundays would
want to know that.
PM: I get a bit rusty This time of the year you
don't get much time to play. But when I get a chance to
get a few games in I can play pretty close to it.
EDWARDS: Right. We better close with a very serious
question. How do you think the West Coast Eagles are
going to go in Melbourne in the finals?
PM: Let me say first that I've been thrilled to see the
way they've come through. I mean there's been a lot of
cynicism amongst a lot of the Victorians about the
outsiders, if I can say the West Coast Eagles, the
Brisbane Bears and the Sydney Swans. I'm just thrilled
that they're up there. I don't know now whether I now
proceed to lose a great hunk of the West Australian vote.
I don't think that they'll win the flag this year but I
wish them well. But I really share the sense of joy that
most West Australians must feel that they've done as well
as they have.
EDWARDS: And who do you think the flag's out of then
Bob? What, Hawthorn, Essendon or Collingwood?
PM: Anyone who saw Hawthorn last week could only have
gone away in awe. That display against Collingwood, that
was Hawthorn flag-type football. I know a close friend
of mine who actually works with me and who is a
Collingwood fanatic who simply said well Collingwood's
got a chance provided someone knocks Hawthorn off on the
way through to the final. I mean they've got to be very
close. But then Essendon is also playing very well at
times. They had a let-down after the Collingwood game.
I guess the three that I think it lies between are
Essendon,.-Hawthorn.. and Collingwood. Liking a bit of a
price, relatively speaking, I would like to have got onto
Hawthorn just a couple of weeks ago.
EDWARDS: Yes, it would've been the time wouldn't it.
PM: Yes.
EDWARDS: Bob, it's been great to talk to you. We're
talking to a very special friend of yours later in fact.
We're talking to Hazel.
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PM: Is that right. Give her my love will you.
EDWARDS: I will indeed. I will indeed. She looked well
when I saw her yesterday with you. So we'll have a talk
to her later and it's terrific to talk to you. I'm sure
all my listeners have been interested. They'll get their
money on Race 8 in Sydney.
PM: I hope that works. As I say, next time you have to
talk to me on a Saturday morning. I might be then
talking to you with more total confidence. But I think
they'll get a good run for their money on that. Thanks
mate. EDWARDS: Thanks a lot Bob.
ends
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