PRIME INISTE
TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH RAY MARTIN, MIDDAY SHOW,
22 MARCH 1990
E 0 E PROOF ONLY
MARTIN: Welcome PM.
PM: Thanks.
MARTIN: You've had seven years in office, you've spent
the best part of 20 million bucks on trying to convince
the electorate that you should win this election. Why
haven't you convinced them?
PM: Well, I thought it was a bit of an even split there,
but we've got, we've got a bit of a hard fight on our
hands. MARTIN: Let's ask again. Those who think Bob Hawke has
the answers put your hands up. Can I be honest?
Here's your chance.
PM: Yes, let's ask.
MARTIN: Well those who don't think he has? Alright go
ahead. So you've only convinced half.
PM: Yes, well half, half plus one will be enough, but I
admit I know that people here in this audience and out
there in Australia have had some tough times and I just
want to make this point. I've been in public life all my
adult life. I've worked for ordinary Australians all my
life and I wouldn't impose hardship for the sake of doing
it. We just reached the point where we had to slow
things down a bit because we were importing too much and
I--know it's hurt and I'm sorry about that. But now the
banking industry is saying the rates can come off and
they will.
MARTIN: I want to talk about that
PM: Yes.
MARTIN: I mean, I suggest one of the reasons people have
some doubts about both sides is the headlines and what
they've seen over the last five weeks. In some ways the
Alice in Wonderland headlines for non economists, people
simply reading it
PM: Sure.
MARTIN: Such as jobless up, housing down, Government
happy. Or today's brink of recession, headlines we see,
Australia in the brink of recession and a headline that
says Keating, beautiful figures. How do they make sense
out of that?
PM: Well, it's hard for people who are, are not
economists to, to understand the complexities of the
figures, but could I quickly try and make it as simple as
I can? We were growing that fast that we were sucking in
too many imports we couldn't afford so we had to slow
things down a bit. Obviously when you do that people get
hurt and I, I don't like that but now what the banking
industry is saying that that's worked and they say after
next Saturday when we're returned, that the rates can
come off.
MARTIN: Is the banking industry saying that
PM: Yes, they are indeed.
MARTIN: On the front page, front page of today's paper
had Nobby Clark, who's the boss of the National Australia
Bank saying what you've done in the monetary policy
is akin to Atilla the Hun.
PM: Yes, well Nobby Clark is two things. He's the head
of a bank and he's also a lifelong identification with
the Tories. Now when he wants to make comments like
Atilla the Hun that's not objective bankers' talk. I, I
prefer to rely on what the Reuters screen said the night
before last and they said that rates will come down
assuming that Hawke's re-elected.
MARTIN: Bob, but you know, I mean, John Hewson is an ex
professor of economics, Andrew Peacock has got some
background, so did John Howard as being Treasurer of this
country. They, you can do anything with statistics. You
can say we're on top of things, they say we're in a
recession. PM: Well, the, there's no-one who can say on the basis
of yesterday's statistics that we're in a recession. Noone
and no-one has said because it's impossible to say
we're in a recession.
MARTIN: How about brink of a recession.
PM: No because, look, the technical things I want to
avoid, but when you, when you get up a set of national
accounts you do two sides. You look at increase in
spending, increase in income. On the increase in
spending side it's a positive 0.7 percent. On the income
side it's 0.2 minus.
MARTIN: Now we're about to lose them.
PM: I know.
MARTIN: As you say, you, you don't want to get
technical, all I'm say is you say no,
PM: recession.
MARTIN: Well, headlines of papers say it
PM: Well, look I
MARTIN: the papers say it. Are they all wrong and
you're right?
PM: No, but the economists are not saying it.
MARTIN: The front page of the Herald this morning
brink of recession.
PM: Front page of the Herald says brink of recession.
That doesn't say that economists are saying it.
MARTIN: The Australian Financial Review says recession,
question mark.
PM: Question mark, question mark. You're perfectly
entitled to say question mark, is there one? The answer
is no, there's not.
MARTIN: We've got pensioners here, a group who've
probably heard politicians, heard politicians for the
last 60 years.
PM: Yes.
MARTIN: on the eve of an election say, I can do it
right for you and most times they lied.
PM: Well, let me, say as far as pensioners are
concerned, when I was at the ACTU the representative of
the pensioners, Marjorie Noonan, came to me, a young
research officer said, can you work out with me some way
of trying to get a formula to look after pensions. I
said let me work on it. I came up with the idea that
what should happen is that pensions should be a
percentage of average earnings. In other words, as you
and I in the workforce, as our earnings increase, those
who've set, created this world for us in this country,
their pensions should come up as we go. So we got the
idea of 25 percent of earnings. When I came to office
the pension was 22.7 percent of earnings. Now, in just a
couple of weeks time as a result of legislation, it will
be over 25 percent of earnings the highest it's been
for 40 years. So I've gone from being a research officer
who worked out the concept to the Prime Minister who's
done it.
MARTIN: We've had the Pensioners Association on here,
Bob, and they say that both Parties really don't care
about pensioners because inflation hits the little nest
egg that they have
PM: The Australian Pensioners Federation have come out
and said that pensioners should vote for Labor. That's
the largest group and they've said you should vote Labor.
MARTIN: What, what, in fact, as you know
PM: But the largest one has said they should vote for
Labor and it's not surprising. I mean, 22.7 percent when
Hawke comes in, it's now 25 percent. We've increased the
purchasing power by seven percent, they reduced it by two
and a half percent. I mean, who would you go for?
MARTIN: Does your life, does you economy seem rosy you
people who are on pensions?
PM: No-one's saying it's rosy.
MARTIN: But I mean, that, that's the danger. I mean, we
went through this last night when you spoke to Jana as
well. There's a picture abroad that somehow the economy
is under control, that somehow things are good
PM: No, but..
MARTIN: But people who come in here every day don't
think things are good.
PM: No, I'm not trying to say that things are good for
everyone, but what I do say amongst other things, is
this. Look at the jobs we've created. Now we've created
Jobs, 1.6 million of them, five times faster than the
other mob, twice as fast as the rest of the world we've
created jobs. We've got investment higher than it's ever
been. We've got manufacturing industry now exporting
cars to Japan.
MARTIN: And we've got a debt of $ 120 billion, the
fareign debt and we've got 17 percent interest rates.
PM: Yes, but, part of that, part of that debt has been
the investment coming in to restructure our industry. I
mean, you can't now have BHP being a major exporter of
steel without it having imported machinery and equipment
to put itself in a position
MARTIN: But you know, I mean, as I just said a moment
ago, you can do anything with statistics. You're saying
this at the moment and all the papers Australians are
reading this morning say recession question mark, despite
what you say.
PM: Well, what I'm say is that all the papers were
telling us at the end of last year, in the latter part of
the year, they were telling me what you've got to do is
slow the economy down, we can't keep having this level of
imports. We've done that. The high interest rates have
worked and now they can come off.
MARTIN: Did you tell us in ' 87, did you predict in the
' 87 election that interest rates would fall within three
years? PM: And interest rates did fall after ' 87. They came
down dramatically after the election in ' 87.
MARTIN: So what, 17 percent now?
PM: Yes, and then they went up because
MARTIN: But they went up again.
PM: Yes, they went up again and they went up because we
had a situation in this country of excessive demand.
I've said that I and all the Government economists, like
every economist in this country, underestimated the
strength of demand that we got in this country.
MARTIN: What's to stop you, in two years time when
things don't go according to your predictions at the
moment saying, well we didn't expect that.
PM: Well all I can say is that what the Australian
people have to, have to do on Saturday a very simple
choice. They're going to wake up on, on the following
day with either Bob Hawke as Prime Minister or Andrew
Peacock. Now Bob Hawke has got a predictable wages
outcome, Andrew Peacock has said he doesn't know, but
everyone else says the wages will explode under them.
MARTIN: He says they won't of course.
PM: Well
MARTIN: He sat here and said they won't explode.
PM: He said when he was asked what will the outcome be
and he said ' who's to know'.
MARTIN: But you said last year in the West Australian
election, you said that interest rates were going to come
down before the end of the year.
PM: Yes and I believed, on all the evidence available,
that would be the case.
MARTIN: But they didn't.
PM: Well, what happened. I've just said, we
MARTIN: But, I know what you said
PM: Let me make the point, Ray, let me make the point.
MARTIN: These people have heard that, Bob. They've heard
that for the last six years of their lives.
PM: And they've heard me be honest and say, like every
economist, like every economist in this country in the
private sector, in the public sector we underestimated
it. I'm saying, I mean, can I be more honest than that?
We all, every economist, underestimated the strength of
demand. We were wrong.
MARTIN: Alright. Couple of quick yes, no answers before
we bring your lovely wife out.
PM: Yes.
MARTIN: Will the Democrats preference decide the
election on Saturday?
PM: Preferences not only of Democrats, but
independents-
MARTIN: ( inaudible)
PM: Yes, they will be decisive.
MARTIN: And have you spent a million dollars as Richard
Farmer writes, chasing that second preference vote?
PM: I don't know what the figure is. I mean, there's
obviously been a lot of advertising. I don't know, I
doubt if it's a million, but we've obviously spent a fair
bit. MARTIN: But certainly in my 25 years of covering
politics, I've never seen a candidate, senior candidate,
come out on camera and say give us your second
preference. PM: Yes, well, simply because we are in a different
world now, not only in Australia but right around the
world, environment has become an issue of dimension it
never did before. In this country and all around the
world, there are an increasing number of people who are
saying our first concern is the environment. And I've
simply said alright, if your first concern is the
environment and you're going to give your first vote to
someone, make sure that you make sense of your concern by
giving your determinative preference to the Party whose
got the best record on the environment.
MARTIN: Alright, yes, no, if we can.
PM: Yes, sure.
MARTIN: If you had to choose, is Victoria the key State
on Saturday. Will that make or break?
PM: It's one of the key States.
MARTIN: Well
PM: Well, I mean, how can I possibly say it is the key
State when, if I pick up seats in Queensland and
Tasmania, that that's not key. I mean it is one of the
key States, yes.
MARTIN: OK. Charles Blunt predicted here in this chair
an eight seat win for the coalition. How much are you
going to win by?
PM: I think we'll hold something like our present
majority. MARTIN: Eighteen.
PM: Something of that order.
MARTIN: Alright, if you lose, will you quit Canberra?
PM: I've said I'd put myself in the hands of the Party.
I'd, if they pressed hard for me to stay, I'd have to
think about it.
MARTIN: If you lose and stay, would you quit the
leadership? PM: Oh no, if I stayed it would only be because they
wanted me to stay in the leadership.
MARTIN: So if they didn't offer that, you'd
PM: Well, it's not a question of offer. I mean, I won't
be pressing, I won't be pressing for it. But, I mean,
that's entirely hypothetical. I do believe that, I hope
the audience and all the viewers there will understand
I'm trying not to be cocky or complacent about it, but I
think, I think that we'll win.
[ Commercial break]
MARTIN: Alright, the status of women. Of the one
thousand plus candidates who are running in this Federal
election, less than two hundred are women and most of
them happen to be Independents. So, the status of women.
Mrs Hawke, welcome, would you please welcome Mrs Hawke.
You're always honest and frank, as your husband is, what
has your old man done for the status of women in
Australia?
MRS HAWKE: A great deal, a great deal. I've watched it
with interest. Seven years is quite a long time and he
hasn't been twiddling his thumbs. In respect of women
there's been a great deal done. Immediately he upgraded
the Office of the Status of Women by renaming it so and
took it into his own Department which meant there was
better access to the Prime Minister's Department for the
women. The Office has been very vibrant and Affirmative
Action was, of course, a very exciting thing. First, the
two year pilot study, and then the enactment of the
legislation MARTIN: Could we come back to I'm sorry, could we come
to that point that I just made then, that only two
hundred of the one thousand candidates are women. What's
happened to women in representing women in politics?
MRS HAWKE: Well, that's at the Federal Government level.
In State politics there are more women.
MARTIN: But he's the Federal Government.
MRS HAWKE: Yes, but you see for women and it takes
time for all this to filter through, and it's not unique
to Australia, the imbalance in male and female
representation MARTIN: We're one of the worst though, accordingly to
today's figures we're one of the worst. I just wonder
whether you, I mean, again
MRS HAWKE: But let me insist..
MARTIN: Go on.
MRS HAWKE: that at State government level, for
instance we have a Premier in Western Australia, and a
beauty she is
MARTIN: But I just wondered
MRS HAWKE: and also, taking it back to local
government, where women who are doing traditional roles
and even working in career jobs too, can more easily
participate in local government the percentage is
higher again. So that's going to take time to filter
through.
MARTIN: Be honest, do you think that blokes can
represent women in terms of needs and desires?
MRS HAWKE: Some blokes can represent women better than
others. I think they need to be good listeners, to
understand and to make a distinct effort in terms of
their research and outreach, and this has been done in an
extraordinary way by developing the Agenda for Women by
this Federal Government. It's been a taskforce which has
gone out into all different areas of women's condition,
rural women, Aboriginal women, women in traditional
roles. All of that has been thoroughly taskforce
researched and
MARTIN: With respect though, Mrs Hawke, that's sounds
like words. I mean, it just sounds like I mean, do
you think that men ladies, do you think that men can
represent what you want? Or do you need women?
( audience response]
MARTIN: So, I know, I accept that it takes time..
MRS HAWKE: if you that information, that honest
inquiry into what women's needs are, as expressed by
women, not as expressed by men, that's the important
thing.
MARTIN: Well that's but they're not there you see.
We've got Ros Kelly in the Cabinet, that's the only
woman. PM: [ inaudible]
MRS HAWKE: But you don't have to be a women to listen to
women and to understand.
MARTIN: But why not have women? Fifty-one per cent of
our audience, of our
MRS HAWKE: [ inaudible]
MARTIN: population are women.
MRS HAWKE: ( inaudible]
MARTIN: Bob?
PM: Well, I just make the I agree with what Hazel's
0saying, and I..
MARTIN: I'm sure you do.
PM: No, no. When I don't, I tell her.
MRS HAWKE: Yes.
PM: Let me say this. I think that women are capable of
representing men's interests. I think that Ros Kelly,
who, you mentioned her, she can represent the interests
of men. But I take the view that more women ought to get
into the political process.
MARTIN: Where are they?
PM: Well, they are coming through. There are many, many
more now than there were at the beginning of the 1980s.
MARTIN: But there's have to be, Bob, would there,
there'd have to be. Because, I mean, they are fifty-one
per cent of our population
PM: [ inaudible]
MARTIN: but the major parties do nothing for them do
they? PM: That's not right to say the major parties do
nothing. We've got a lot of women in our Caucus, but I
want to see more.
MARTIN: How can you speak about women? In this
campaign, how often have you actually said here's the
vision for women at the end of the line?
PM: I tell you what, I stood up in Perth and made a
major speech, with Premier Carmen Lawrence standing next
to me, and announced a very significant program for
women. MARTIN: Alright. What do you think? If you understand
women, you obviously understand this lady, what do you
think is the single most important issue for Australian
women? PM: I think the most important, the single most
important issue for Australian women is that we change
the education system to ensure that the women of the
future are going to be the product of an education system
that, when a girl goes into the education system, she is
going to have the same opportunity of access for
training, for any vocation or profession. So that we
will not, in the education system, hive off women so that
they're only going to into that vocation or to that
vocation. That's the single most important thing we can
do, to have an education system which gives equality of
opportunity to women.
MARTIN: Now, I haven't been on the campaign trail with
you, so you may have said that, but I certainly have not
read or heard or seen on television, you saying anything
like that.
PM: [ inaudible]
MARTIN: Let me tell you what people here say, because we
get two hundred a day who come in here and about sixty
per cent of them are women. They don't really care about
bracket creep and they don't care much about GDP, or very
much about national account figures. But they talk about
their families, and they talk about violence in our
community. PM: Yes.
MARTIN: They talk about drugs in our community.
PM: Yes.
MARTIN: They talk about immigration in our community.
PM: Yes.
MARTIN: They talk about selling off the farm to
Japanese. That's what they talk about, regularly.
They're not racists, but that's what worries them.
PM: Well, let me say this in regard to some of those
features that you've talked about. They talk about their
children. The single most important thing for anyone
who's concerned about their children is the opportunity
for education. And I think the single thing of which I'm
proudest after seven years of Prime Minister is that when
I came to office, only one in three of Australian kids
stayed on in the education system. We had a pattern of
privilege in education. Now, it's two out of three,
nearly two out of three of our kids stay on in school
because I've more than doubled the education allowances
going to low and middle income families. That's the
single most important thing that you can do for families,
is to say that your kid is going to have the same
opportunity of developing his or her talents in the
education system. And that's what we've done.
MARTIN: Mrs Hawke, those issues that I raised, obviously
they're close to your family and they're close to all our
families. Again, please be honest, do you think that
those issues get enough attention? Such as violence in
the community. I mean, it hasn't been raised in this
election, but every woman and child is concerned.
MRS HAWKE: They have been raised in this campaign, maybe
you've missed them, but..
MARTIN: I've covered it pretty closely.
MRS HAWKE: not only in the campaign, there's been a
great deal done. And in fact, for at least the last
three to four years, I've been speaking to girls'
seminars, Year 10 girls mainly, to encourage them to
stay on at school and finish it and to keep science
and maths subjects going so that their horizons are
wLdened and their opportunities are much greater.
MARTIN: Could I ask the audience please. Have you
heard, in all the campaign that you've read and seen on
television or on radio, have you heard any of the
candidates talk about hard drugs, about violence in our
community? [ audience response]
MARTIN: about immigration, apart from this furore
that we've had in the last few days? About Japanese
investment apart from the city?
[ audience response]
PM: Well let me go to the question of drugs. Just
earlier this week I announced a new program under which
we are going to ensure that the proceeds from the crimes
in which people are involved in trading in drugs, that
those proceeds are going to go fifty per cent of the
proceeds from the conviction of people who trade in drugs
fifty per cent of those proceeds are going into the law
enforcement agencies to increase their financial
capacity. And the other fifty per cent is going into
funds to help the victims of drug usage. Now that was a
specific announcement that I made at the beginning of
this week, and allocated the money to do it.
MARTIN: What about getting the mister bigs, what about
reducing the
PM: Let me say this in regard to mister bigs. When I
came to office, we set up the NCA, the National Crime
Authority. I was opposed at the time that I set it up by
the Opposition, they said no we're against that, simply
because we did it. But now, they've conceded the fact
that under the operations of the National Crime Authority
which I set up, there have been major busts, major busts
of major crime rings in this country and it's happened
because, with the National Crime Authority, I've
co-ordinated their work with the work of State police
authorities and we've busted.
MARTIN: Well you know better than I know that politics
is not and what you've said I accept as fact but you
know better than I do that politics is about perception.
And the perception is that drugs are rampant in our
community and that nothing's been done. The perception
is again, the Daily Mirror ran a poll yesterday, and they
said that the silent issue in this campaign is
immigration. No-one is talking immigration. The people
who come in here want to talk immigration
PM: Yes, well I'll talk about immigration.
MARTIN: so they're not racists, but you're not
PM: You say they're not racists, you say they're not
racist, and I accept they're not racist. Let's talk
about immigration.
MARTIN: But why hasn't it been the issue, why haven't
you been out there saying
PM: Because, because it has a bipartisan position. The
Opposition supports our immigration program. There is no
issue between the Opposition and the Government on
immigration. No issue at all. So, if they agree with
our position, why don't we get up and say, alright,
there's no issue, now I'm going to pick a fight with you.
MARTIN: But your own Commissioner, Stephen Fitzgerald,
said in that report on immigration, said that the
government, whichever government, should calm fears in
Australia. There are great fears about Asians in
Australia. PM: Well, you say there are great fears about. Asians in
Australia, some people have apprehensions. Look, just
let me give you my history. When I grew up as a kid, do
you know what their fears were about? Do you who used to
be the object of hatred?..
MARTIN: The Italians and the Greeks probably.
PM: The Greeks and the Italians. The wops, the dagoes,
that was the language. And I fought against it. And
then, after it was the wops and the dagoes, the Greeks
and the Italians, and it required people of guts and
decency to stand up for them, and I did. And now it's
Asians. And you'll have Bob Hawke standing up there, in
favour of them. Because all I ask of people who come to
this country is one thing, and that is that they commit
themselves to Australia. That they are Australians. And
this country is a country of immigrants. As I look out
into your audience, the fact my friend is that, right
now, forty per cent of every person out there, forty per
cent of all Australians are either immigrants or the son
or daughter of an immigrant. We are a country of
immigration. We've been built up and strengthened by the
British, the Irish, the Scots, the French, the Greeks,
the Italians, and now we're getting more from Vietnam,
these people, and we are a stronger, better country
because basically Australians are tolerant. Sure
MARTIN: [ inaudible]
PM: sure some of them make an..
MARTIN: I'm talking about perception, it's not just some
we're talking about
PM: and what I'm talking about the responsibility of
leadership. The responsibility of political leadership
is not to succumb to the lowest common denominator. And
I tell you what..
MARTIN: We're not talking about that..
PM: No, but what I'm saying..
MARTIN: we're not talking about that at all.
PM: I will talk about immigration, and when you say
people are concerned about Asians and so on, I will not
dodge the responsibility that I have for this and future
generations of Australians. If you want to do one single
thing which will hurt the kids of Australia, it's this.
Develop a perception in Asia that Australians are
anti-Asian because, I tell you what, Asia will say OK
Australia and Asia is the faster growing region of the
world if Australia gets a reputation that we are
anti-Asian, then we doom our kids and the next generation
to third class citizenship. Because Asia will say,
alright, if you think we're inferior human beings, we'll
buy our wheat, our wool, our meat, our coal, our iron
ore, and our bauxite from people who don't treat us as
third class citizens
MARTIN: I accept that, I accept that that's good logic
and I certainly don't take second place to you when it
comes to racism.
PM: I'm sure you don't.
MARTIN: All I'm saying is perceptions. And I'm
saying that Australians read in the newspapers, Surfers
Paradise being bought. They read in the newspapers
pieces of this land being bought. Now, in the past it
was or the from America or the Brits or the
Germans or whatever. Now it happens to be Japanese and
Chinese. PM: OK...
MARTIN: That's the perception Bob
PM: Yes, but
MARTIN: the perception.
PM: And that's what I'm saying. If you keep saying
that's perception and don't give them the facts then the
perception will grow. The fact is, let me give you the
figures about investment
MARTIN: But until mentioned Polls the other day, this
wasn't even raised in this debate.
PM: And why? And why? Because until he raised it, you
know what the position, what the position of the
Opposition was? They have spelled out, in regard to the
Polls, in answer in the Sydney Morning Herald, they have
said that they supported the idea. They supported it.
It was a non-issue. The Liberals and the National Party
fully supported the idea, as did Greiner. Then, in a
miserable twist of politics, just six days before the
election, having said they fully supported it, they then
dashed off onto this concept of an enclave when the
fundamental principle that we laid down, and which has
been followed by your Will Baileys, by your John
Elliotts, everyone who's been engaged in it, is that this
shall be an enclave and it's not confined to Japanese.
We are trying to attract to Australia the best technology
that we can from North America, from Japan, from Europe,
so that Australians, an increasingly well educated
Australian workforce, will have married to it the best
technology from overseas. So that my kids, and your
kids, and their grandchildren are going to have a well
equipped Australian industry which is going to be able to
compete in the world. And that was the position of the
Opposition, that was the position of the Opposition until
a week before the election.
MARTIN: You don't think, I mean we're almost out of time
and I just want to get a couple of quick questions in
with Hazel anyway. But I mean you don't think that that
poll that came in last night, the Morgan poii, that
showed, that indicated that the Libs were in front, the
Liberal Party is in front of you
PM: That shows that we would win the election.
MARTIN: but the result of the Polis debate, this
debate PM: That showed that we would win the election.
MARTIN: Alright. Hazel, can I ask you, we've seen Mr
Peacock campaigning with his daughters and we've
certainly seen a lot of you campaigning in this one. Do
you, you don't feel you're being used as a political tool
in this, or are you enjoying it?
MRS HAWKE: I'm enjoying it very much and I don't feel
now, and I never have, felt that I've been manipulated or
used as a political tool. It would be a denial of my
human rights and my individuality if I weren't able to
take part as I want to and as I see fit. And I just
MARTIN: What do you think you add?
MRS HAWKE: Pardon?
MARTIN: What do you think you add to the campaign?
MRS HAWKE: Well I don't claim to add anything, I'm doing
what I
MARTIN: What are you doing then?
MRS HAWKE: Pardon?
MARTIN: What are you doing?
MRS HAWKE: Well I'm taking part as just in, as part of a
team. I'm not a politician and I don't talk policy or
politics. But I am part of a general team. You see,
there's only a few players in this election who are
actually politicians. There are staff and advisers and
people who, one way or another, help because they've got
a commitment
MARTIN: And about
MRS HAWKE: and I've got a commitment too.
MARTIN: And about ten million voters as well. Now
listen, if this bloke was to lose, and there's a headline
in today's paper here saying my Bob could handle defeat,
the front page of the paper. But if he was to lose,
could you put up with him at home?
MRS HAWKE: Absolutely. Anyway, he wouldn't sit at home
twiddling his thumbs I can guarantee. He's got too much
energy. MARTIN: Alright, we thank you both and we wish you both
well. PM: Thank you.
MARTIN: Thank you Hazel, thank you Bob Hawke.
ends
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