PRIME MINISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH DEAN BANKS, DENNIS DONOHUE
AND ROSS STEVENSON, ' LAWYERS, GUNS AND MONEY', RADIO 3AW
19 MARCH 1990
E OE PROOF ONLY
BANKS: It's a very good morning to the Prime Minister Mr
Bob Hawke. Good morning and thank you for joining us.
PM: Pleasure Dean.
BANKS: Thank you for bringing your entourage.
PM: Good. Well I like following your entourage around
from station to station too.
BANKS: You were locked in mortal combat there for a
moment weren't you, or verbal combat with my colleague
Dennis? PM: I know he's a paid up member of the Labor Party and
he's wearing a Liberal badge. I mean, as he said, he'll
lose his preselection for when I finally leave Wills.
INTERVIEWER: I used to work out there Mr Hawke, but I'm
impressed by your chunky gold jewellery and your
impersonation of a real estate agent on our programme.
It's never struck me before that you had this side
interest. PM: No, no, there's nothing chunky about it. Look at
it. INTERVIEWER: What a very nice ring it is. Tell me,
you're in the last week and I suppose you're running
down. I noticed a very interesting little snippet in The
Age this morning. I notice someone from the Victorian
ALP complaining about the fact that the polls have put
the ALP five percent ahead in Victoria. Is this a new
art form in politics?
PM: No, it's not but there's a feeling in regard to, and
I won't mention the poll in question, but there is a
feeling amongst some of our people that at times it's,
you know, in the period the penultimate poll. They
make it a bit too good for us and then wrack it back just
before the election. I don't know whether there's
anything in that.
INTERVIEWER: Are you talking about the polls
deliberately inflating your lead to create a false sense
of security?
PM: Well I'm not making that accusation. There is a
feeling in some quarters that it happens. But I've got
no proof so I don't say anything about it.
INTERVIEWER: What's the Rod Cameron poll say Prime
Minister? PM: I'm not uncomfortable with the Rod Cameron poll.
But I still make the point Dean, as I have, I never take
any election for granted. Never.
INTERVIEWER: I think has actually put one over here
on the Japanese issue because most Australians in my view
are racist, they don't like the Japanese coming out here
and developing our land and so on. And for you to tackle
S him on this issue you're making a lot of good headlines
in the newspapers but you're going to lose votes on it.
PM: Well I, in politics I suppose in this sense,
that this is one thing that I will never compromise on,
and you have to compromise in politics on some things, I
acknowledge that, but there is one thing I will never in
any circumstances compromise on and that is the question
of race, racism. For the Opposition, now after this has
been on the table for well over two years, and it being
known that written strictly into the principles that
have to guide those examining it, is a strict requirement
against any concept of an enclave, for the people just
six days before an election to come out and say without
any study in detail of the proposal, and Mr Peacock
having rejected in September an offer to be briefed on
it, to come out and say they are against a proposal which
would, could bring technology to Australia, from
Japan but from Europe and the United States, to say they
are against this because it could establish a Japanese
enclave is something that I will not walk away from.
INTERVIEWER: Speaking about technology, imagine that
there was a technological breakdown on Saturday afternoon
and where you're going to watch the result that you're
told that you can only have one camera focused on one
seat for those results, what would be the seat that you
would choose to look at as the, hate to use the word,
litmus test for the election?
PM: That's a good question Ross. I just need to give it
a little bit of thought because I think there are
different factors operating in different states.
INTERVIEWER: Can I give you a lead, Malcolm Mackerras
said he'd be looking at Melbourne Ports.
PM: Melbourne Ports. Well that wouldn't be a bad one.
I mean it'd give you an idea of how the vote was going in
Victoria. People are saying that Victoria is important
and of course it is. But we're doing very well in
Queensland, Tasmania, New South Wales, I think we're
holding Western Australia, so I think we can pick up
seats we don't hold in Queensland and Tasmania for
instance. So one would like to be looking at those. But
if you were wanting to get an idea of how Victoria was
going, yes, I wouldn't disagree it was a good idea to
look at how Melbourne Ports was going.
INTERVIEWER: is Melbourne Ports.
PM: There are two or three Melbourne seats you could
pick out would give you an idea of how you were going.
But I don't by saying that think that we'll lose
Melbourne Ports. I'm quite confident of holding it.
INTERVIEWER: You say you take a high moral stance on
this race issue and the enclave, the Japanese enclave
issue, but what about when these people contrive things
in your favour. Like when you had a hole in one in the
dark on the golf course, just had a recent ten-pin
bowling experience where they pulled the rug under the
pins just
PM: ( inaudible)
INTERVIEWER: just before the ball
PM: Did they?
INTERVIEWER: you're not a lawyer, but it's
alleged, PM: I would have thought you're on very very dangerous
ground. Have you got good cover for defamation?
INTERVIEWER: I don't want to contribute to your next
pool or your next tennis court. I hear you've sold your
Sandringham home and you're no longer a Melbournite.
PM: No, that's not right. I represent Melbourne. I
represent Melbourne.
INTERVIEWER: Tell us about the hole in one. Who was the
witness? PM: The witness. It wasn't in the dark, it was on the
16th at Yowani.
INTERVIEWER: In fairness, a par three.
PM: In fairness, a par three. I'm a good golfer but I'm
yet to think that I could get a hole in one on a par
four.
INTERVIEWER: I'm a little bit confused about your golf
skills because I do see you on television from time to
time playing golf and to be quite fair the swing is not
as fluid as one would hope.
PM: Mate, to be quite fair, do you know how they follow
me at golf? When I whack one off the first tee, down the
middle, 230 yards, then pick up my five iron and whack it
an extra y'know you don't see those shots. They wait
until the fourth hole when I
INTERVIEWER: ( inaudible)
PM: Too right.
INTERVIEWER: Were you in Melbourne yesterday for the
additions of the Sunday papers?
PM: I was in Melbourne yesterday for the additions of
the Sunday papers Ross, yes I was.
INTERVIEWER: Well because, you know, there were stories
going around at the time that Rupert Murdoch got The
Herald and Weekly Times back, that this was in return for
a deal that would guarantee Rupert's support. Now given
the McCrann articles of last week and the editorial of
The Sunday Herald saying vote Liberal, do you think he's
gone back on his word?
PM: Well if there were anything in the story, I mean
Rupert could then argue and say oh but look, look at the
editorial in the Sunday Telegraph and the Melbourne
Sunday Sun which were for us. So I mean I guess he'd
have an argument if there was anything in the story,
which there isn't.
INTERVIEWER: Do you think The Herald's got it in for
you? PM: No, I don't think The Herald's got it in for us. I
have no respect for McCrann. Never have had. He finds
it difficult to separate out facts from prejudices. And
that's a bit of a limitation for a correspondent. I mean
if you can't sort out facts from prejudices you're in
trouble. That's always been McCrann's problem.
INTERVIEWER: Well McCrann will have no problems with his
swimming pool on the strength of that. You're a wealthy
person, you can perhaps swap and give him the Rupert
Murdoch swimming pool
PM: I'll call you as a witness probably, not as a
defence counsellor Do you spend any time in the work
now? INTERVIEWER: Yes, defamation's my
PM: Yes, I know.
INTERVIEWER: I may.
PM: Thanks.
INTERVIEWER: For the right price.
PM: Right price.
INTERVIEWER: He comes very cheap.
PM: Does he?
INTERVIEWER: Talking of prices and money, the appalling
record in this country of the State Banks at the moment,
why keep the Commonwealth Bank?
PM: Because the Commonwealth Bank, I think, has over the
years developed a, not just a reputation for, but in fact
has had a major part of its concern being housing for
ordinary people. And of course it's gone beyond that
role it had in the early days of being the major savings
bank. It's a very very large trading bank as well. I
think it's appropriate for the people to have that
institution. INTERVIEWER: Talking about government instrumentalities,
I pick up my papers and I listen to the radio and I watch
the television, and I hear ads by the RACV on roads. Are
you going to do something about that? I mean Dennis
probably, being a good Liberal, would support it but I
don't want more
INTERVIEWER: I support the Liberals but I don't support
the RACV on politicising the road issue. To me it's
irrelevant what a private club wants to do about roads.
PM: Of course, it's a pity they wouldn't concern
themselves with facts. I mean the facts on roads are
very simple. Again, facts don't worry prejudiced people,
like the RAC. Fact one under my Government we have
spent 18% more in real terms in our seven years on roads
than they did. Which in dollar terms is $ 235 million per
annum more on roads under Hawke Labor than under the
Liberals beforehand. Fact two their misrepresentation
about the proportion of our revenue that goes on roads.
They're just totally untruthful about that. The
Government gets its revenue from oil from two sources,
from the levy at the rig and the excise at the pump. In
this last year my Government has spent 19.46% of our
total revenue on roads. In their last year it was
19.04%. INTERVIEWER: Have you been swatting up on figures ever
since Paul Lyneham caught Andrew Peacock out?
PM: No, I just happen to have been a person who a) got a
degree in economics, who was appointed by firstly the
Whitlam Government to a major committee of inquiry into
the Australian economy that was the Jackson Committee
and then was appointed by Fraser, by the Fraser
Government to the Corporate Committee of Inquiry. I'm a
person who has been intimately acquainted with the
Australian economy, not just academically but in
practical terms, for a very long period of time. I know
my country's..
INTERVIEWER: Dean Banks is intimately acquainted with
your academic career, we're going to pursue certain
aspects of it shortly.
INTERVIEWER: Let's see whether you're an expert in the
laws of the State of Victoria.
PM: great expertise there mate.
INTERVIEWER: When we come back and test your legal
knowledge on strange laws but true.
break INTERVIEWER: We were talking sport before. You're
synonymous in the area of cricket, the punt and also
golf. I couldn't believe it when they told me that you
got a half blue in baseball.
PM: We're in the situation over in, when I started
after the war when I went to university, that baseball
was a winter sport. So a lot of us who played first
grade cricket used to play baseball in the winter months.
It was tremendous for keeping your arm in.
INTERVIEWER: Ian Chappell, Allan Border, both played
baseball. PM: Neil Harvey.
INTERVIEWER: Your favourite game Ross.
INTERVIEWER: Great game, great game. Strange laws but
true you'ye done this before. The segment where we
give you three laws, your job, along with Dennis and
Dean, they're going to have a crack as well. Just tell
us which of these three propositions is correct.
Codncentrating and ready. Don't sound so enthusiastic.
PM: ( inaudible)
INTERVIEWER: I got into trouble at school for saying
yeah. PM: Did you, oh.
INTERVIEWER: Here we go, law number one.
PM: It's so exciting, let's go eh.
7
INTERVIEWER: That's better. Our story again features
young friend Mal Dux. This time Mal Dux is caught up in
election fever, or rather non-election fever because Mal
Dux believes that people shouldn't vote because it only
encourages politicians. Mal Dux votes, he's in rather
the Wills electorate. On election day Mal Dux attends
his local polling booth and stands directly outside the
polling booth distributing how not to vote cards, which
are cards urging people to vote informally. After he's
been there a short while he's approached by a federal
policeman. ' Excuse me sir', says the policeman, ' would
you mind moving down to the footpath away from the front
door because you are not allowed to distribute campaign
material within six metres of a polling booth'. ' I agree
with you', says Mal Dux, ' however' and this is
proposition number one ' I'm not distributing campaign
material, I'm distributing material urging people not to
vote, so I can stand wherever I jolly well please.'
That's law number one. We'll go back over these. Law
number two. Mal Dux of course at some stage has to vote
himself. Naturally, giving his stance, he intends to
vote informal. He enters the polling booth and looks at
his ballot paper for the Senate. Now, a leap of
imagination, but this Senate ballot paper has the names
of eight candidates on it. Mal Dux decides to make his
vote informal, in a novel way. He puts numbers next to
each different candidate as follows:
87), 7297). Satisfied that he's registered an
informal vote he leaves the polling booth and goes to the
Horse and Hounds for a cold to reward himself. Here
he meets barrister friend Dennis Donohue and tells him of
the novel way that he's voted informal. Dennis is
aghast. And this is proposition number two. ' Mal Dux,
what you've done does not make your vote informal. As
long as the numbers on the Senate ballot paper are in
sequence, and there are changes to no more than two of
the votes, your vote is alright. Son, you've voted
S formally.' Law number three. Dennis goes on, ' tell me
Mal Dux, since you've mucked up your chance to vote
informally in the Senate, how did you vote informally in
the House of Representatives?' ' Well', says Mal Dux, ' I
marked all the squares as you're supposed to do but I
signed the ballot paper best wishes to you all, Mal Dux.'
' Well Mal Dux', says Dennis, ' I'm sorry but you've failed
again. Putting your signature on a ballot paper does not
make your vote informal'. Going back over them. Law
number one says Mal Dux can stand wherever he likes if
he's not distributing campaign material, he's simply
distributing material telling people to vote informally.
Law number two says as long as the numbers on the Senate
ballot paper are in sequence and you haven't changed any
more than two, that's ok. Law number three says signing
a ballot paper does not make it an informal vote. Now
would you like a crack at that or would you like some
leadership from Dennis Donohue, ace barrister.
PM: he gets paid more than I do. He should go
first. INTERVIEWER: Probably true as a matter of fact.
INTERVIEWER: Number three Ross because I was a
scrutineer in the Fitzroy election last year and people
wrote things like don't encourage the bastards and things
]. ike that and they weren't informal votes. I'll go for
number three, to assist you Mr Hawke.
INTERVIEWER: So you reckon that signing a ballot paper
doesn't make it an informal vote?
( inaudible)
INTERVIEWER: Dean Banks?
INTERVIEWER: I go for number one.
INTERVIEWER: You reckon that because he's not
distributing campaign material he's simply saying to
people don't vote, he can stand wherever he likes.
INTERVIEWER: It's a free country.
INTERVIEWER: Prime Minister?
PM: I've got a question before I answer it. Your
proposition that one of these laws is right
INTERVIEWER: One is right.
PM: Only one is right.
INTERVIEWER: Only one is right.
PM: I agree with Dennis. I think it's the last one.
INTERVIEWER: That's good. We've got the Prime Minister,
a bloke who earns more than the Prime Minister, and a
bloke who earns more than both of them put together, and
they can't get the right answer.
PM: Number two.
IW4ERVIEWER: Number two is the correct answer. As long
as you put the numbers in the Senate in sequence that's
alright. Distributing material telling people not to
vote is campaign material for the purpose of the
Commonwealth legislation. And if you sign your ballot
paper because that can identify you, that is an informal
vote. So you've got to be careful when you register your
vote at Wills.
PM: Yes, I've never signed a ballot paper yet.
INTERVIEWER: Perhaps that was the informal vote up in
Wills Prime Minister.
INTERVIEWER: Prime Minister, it's now my duty
PM: You're the one who should be embarrassed, not me.
INTERVIEWER: I should be.
PM: You don't look embarrassed.
INTERVIEWER: I was trying to mislead you
PM: you're a Liberal, so what's new.
INTERVIEWER: Before I ask you about the record, I've got
a fax here and someone says that you once said ' I'm a
socialist and always will be. I would welcome the demise
of the capitalist system provided it was replaced with
socialism.' Is that still your stance?
PM: No, it certainly isn't. I'm surprised that I was
ever as dogmatic as that. But it's certainly not my
view. INTERVIEWER: Alright, time for the record.
record plays
INTERVIEWER: Thank you Prime Minister for joining us
this morning. A small presentation from Dennis Donohue.
INTERVIEWER: It's a car fridge full of hard stuff for
when you fall off the wagon after the election and
too. PM: Thank you, thank you Dennis. Well I appreciate it
very much, and you Dean and you Ross. It's been a
pleasure being with you. All the best.
INTERVIEWER: I've just had a call as to what's in the
esky and is it going to be shared with the travelling
media? PM: It certainly will be. They can all take one before
they go.
INTERVIEWER: That's not a bottle of French in there is
it? PM: An original monastic herbal drink, homemade from an
ancient Finland recipe. It's not alcoholic, I can be
into it.
INTERVIEWER: Get into it. Good luck in the election
Prime Minister.
PM: Thank you very much Dean.
INTERVIEWER: Are you going to call it?
PM: I think we'll win but we've got to fight hard right
up till Friday night and that's what we'll be doing.
INTERVIEWER: ( inaudible)
PM: No, I'm not putting numbers on it mate.
ends