PRIME MINISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH DON CHIPP, RADIO 3AK,
MELBOURNE, 21 AUGUST 1989
E 0 E PROOF ONLY
CHIPP: It was about 25 years ago, we almost had a punch-up
the first time we met, a friendly one. It was in John
Gorton's office, solving the problems of the world and I
0 heard this voice about 10 metres away saying, ' who's that
fellow, get him out of here'. And I said who's going to get
me out? You come up here and say like a couple of big
kids we, in high noon fashion confronted each other and I
thought well if he's going to give me one I'll get the first
one in and then we both started laughing at each other, put
our arms around each other, and I think it's fair to say
we've been pretty good buddies ever since.
PM: Fair commentary.
CHIPP: Anyway, welcome to the program. I'm deeply grateful
that you've come on.
PM: Pleasure.
CHIPP: I must say that you're looking fabulous.
PM: Feeling well Don, feeling very well.
CHIPP: It's the clean living, is it?
PM: It's a number of factors, that's part of it.
CHIPP: What's the day in the life of Bob Hawke? I know
you're asked this a million times. What time do you
normally get up?
PM: I wake reasonably early, I read the papers and then
CHIPP: What's that, six o'clock?
PM: Six, half past six. I wake about then. I try and read
as much of the papers as I can Don, and then it's go, go, go
and then I can finish at midnight, 1 o'clock in the morning.
CHIPP: And breakfast. What sort of breakfast do you have?
-2-
PM: When I'm at The Lodge it's always Pritikin. I have
fresh fruit, bran, muesli, wholemeal bread and orange juice,
that's the go.
CHIPP: You're still sticking to that Pritikin diet?
PM: Always when I'm in Canberra I have it at The Lodge and
over in the office. But of course when you're travelling
Don, you can't be absolutely on it. But I try to do it as
much as I can.
CHIPP: But you've put a lot of good health, don't you?
PM: Just look at it this way. What I say Don, is this; if
you're got a motor car or motor bike or something, you know
that the quality and the performance of that engine is going
to depend overwhelmingly on what you put into it. If you
don't put good oil or petrol into the thing it's not going
to perform at its maximum. Now the human body's no
different. CHIPP: Well talking about the performance of the human
body, I was told something just a couple of months ago and
I didn't think you could learn anything when you get to my
age but you can. I've always thought that the body and the
mind needed work and play.
PM: That's right.
CHIPP: But somebody has said this to me, this very wise
thing. But there's another thing; work, play and idleness.
Sheer idleness. Now idleness is different to play.
PM: Absolutely. I think
CHIPP: Do you agree with that?
PM: Absolutely. I think the capacity to relax is a secret
of productive and happy living and it's quite right to play
is not necessarily the constituent to give you relaxation.
The capacity to just sit, lay about and part of that also is
the capacity to listen. You've been in politics and public
life a long time. How many good listeners do you know?
CHIPP: Not many.
PM: That's right.
CHIPP: In fact they give the pretence of listening but they
don't listen.
PM: That's right. You can see them preparing you know
their spiel while people are there. I mean the essence of,
I think, of intelligent public life is to try and learn as
much from others as you possibly can.
-3-
CHIPP: If I may say so it's one of the things that always
impressed me about you and leading the Democrats I'd come in
with some very vexed problem and you'd sit there and you'd
listen, you wouldn't interrupt and you'd just listen. Would
you believe that Bob Menzies used to do the same thing? He
was known as being an arrogant man but a great listener, and
in the Cabinet he was extremely patient and he had a few
boring Ministers around who used to go on and on. Do you
find it difficult to lose your patience in those sorts of
situations. PM: Sometimes, sometimes but I've always, you know going
back as far as I can remember, I've always thought that it's
just plain stupid to assume that dialogue is just described
as monologue. I mean really you should have the good sense
to listen to what people have got to say the
overwhelming majority of cases that they've got integrity
and mean what they say, that's fine and in the end life is
about not imposing or sometimes you've got to
imposition, but in the end the things are going to stick and
work and the things that people can be persuaded about.
CHIPP: Just as God, who can restrain his tongue when he
knows he's in the right.
PM: Well it's a mixture of the truth and..
CHIPP: How many times do you and Hazel have dinner together
a week on average?
PM: Not too often because I'm virtually always working at
the office, you know, when I'm in Canberra.
CHIPP: You're still not doing sandwich over work?
PM: Not a sandwich. I have a good bloke there where my
dinner and lunch is bought over from The Lodge, it's
Pritikin stuff so none of this sandwich business, mate.
CHIPP: Well what do you do? I mean you're in your office,
do you have a couple of mates in to eat with you? Do you
eat alone or do you work while you eat? I suspect you do
that. PM: I tend to work most of the time while I eat but I often
use it to have my staff in to talk about things or handle a
bit of correspondence or issues that they want some guidance
or opinions on.
CHIPP: But that's not relaxing while you're eating is it?
Is it wise to do it that way?
PM: Well I try and relax a bit at times. I mean I do a
cryptic crossword at times when I'm eating.
-4-
CHIPP: Prime Ministers have lots of interesting little
tidbits to do from time to time, needs the Prime
Ministerial decision. I suppose that's the sort of thing
you'd do over a meal?
PM: my Principal Private Secretary will come in and say
well these things can be handled just a signature or I'd
like your view on this and those sorts of things you can
handle while you're eating.
CHIPP: I know you're a great family man, you love in
the family. It must hurt you a bit not to be able to get
together as a family as often. Do you do that once a year
like at Christmas? Do you still try to do that?
PM: Well as a matter of fact Don, in the very, very near
future we'll all be together because my son Stephen is
having a book he's written on Nookenbah is being launched in
a few weeks time and the whole family is going to be there
in Canberra for the launch that, which we're quite excited
about. CHIPP: Yes, yes. I'll bet you're looking forward to it
then. PM: Yes, I am. I'm very proud of him.
CHIPP: What do you think you're going to do when you get
out of politics, when you do?
PM: Well as I've said Don, I would love to have the
opportunity in fact I will do it to have a series of
interviews with people I've met during my Prime
Ministership. People who in one way or another I think have
had some significant influence in the way the world has gone
or this country has goni. I've felt enormously privileged
Don, to be able to know these people and to or in the
case with them and I would just like to be able to share my
feelings about what those people have done over the wide
areas. So I intend to do a series of television interviews
with people.
CHIPP: You have really met some movers and shakers in your
time, the real heavyweights of the world. Can I ask you
which one stays in your mind? If you walked out of his or
her office ' my God, that was impressive', and you came
away thinking about it for hours afterwards? Is there any
one particular man or woman who had that impression on you?
PM: I think the two that really I'd have to single out
would be Zhao Ziyang and we're all just praying so
fervently that he's going to survive in China and I'd have
to say Mikhail Gorbachev. I had the great privilege of
having about 3 1/ 2 hours with Gorbachev. The most part of
that about 2 1/ 4 hours as I say just the 2 of us with an
interpreter which was a very special sort of privilege and
then another hour or so when Bill Hayden was there. But
( PM4 cont) basically it was still good talking to him..
and I think in answer to your question I'd have to say those
two. Although let me say it's a strange sort of thing that
you know when your with Reagan you never went away with
impression of, you know, the same sort of But I just
think its fair as I've mentioned Gorbachev, if we're talking
about the basis for optimism in the world today I mean
there's a greater basis for optimism now than at any other
stage since the Second World War. I think it's fair that
credit be given to Reagan. I mean
CHIPP: For listening?
PM4: Well for listening and for being prepared to change. I
mean we believed and I think correctly that when he came
to the office of President of the United States Don, that
this status and the stature of the United States had been
weakened and that situation had been able to get away
with murder, and he committed himself to increasing the
credibility and structure of the United States. I think in
a funny sort of juxtaposition Gorbachev needed Reagan and
Reagan needed Gorbachev.
CHIPP: But Gorbachev pricked the balloon of those tight
arsed rednecks in the United States who were always going
around at the White House saying what we need prevalent is
another good war. It certainly fixed those fellows, didn't
it? PM: Yes, well see we're at this conjunction of
circumstances in history where at last, thank God, the
leaders of the communist world have realised that they've
been living a charade, an irrelevancy and that if they are
going to provide improved standards for their people, and
properly to take account of their security considerations,
then they've got to abandon this stupid pretence that a
command economy is the best way of utilising the resources.
So you've that understanding and a commitment on the part of
your Gorbachevs and the people that live in so many parts of
the Eastern Bloc and China, although we can talk about that
seperately. The realisation that they've got to change the
system and fortunately you've got intelligent responses,
including some traditionally conservative people like
Margaret Thatcher and Reagan and Bush. They haven't allowed
their innate political conservatism to blind their
understanding that you must have a constructive response to
these things and this is a unique period in history.
CHIPP: What's your impressions of Margaret Thatcher?
You've got a deep respect for her, haven't you?
PM: I have profound differences of view on many issues with
Margaret Thatcher. But we have a relationship of respect.
I don't question the sincerity and the integrity with which
she holds her views. She has been prepared to be tough to
carry through her position I mean there are lots of
things about what she's done, as I say, I disagree with.
( PM cont) But if you're looking at it in a global sense,
again Margaret Thatcher is one of the earliest of world
leaders to recognise the importance of Gorbachev. She held
out the hand and she said, ' alright, we're ideologically
poles apart. But I recognise that you are dinkum and in me
you have a person who is going to be
CHIPP: Why has she got it in for Malcolm?
PM: Well I can't go into all the details of it but she did
CHIPP: There's a story there, isn't there?
PM: Well in regard to 1979
CHIPP: Robert James Lee Hawke I'll press the question, is
there a story there or is there not?
PM: There is a bit of a story in regard to 1979, the
Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting at Lusaka. A bit
of a story there.
CHIPP: And you can't go any further than that?
PM: I don't think either of us were participants. One
day I might tell you a little bit about it and you'll
laugh. CHIPP: You're not going to tell me..
PM: No, I can tell you what it's about. I mean there was a
CHIPP: inaudible
PM: Now, now. I can't go into all the details but I can
give you the essence of what it was about and that was that
there was the workings out of the agreement as to how the
transition from Rhodesia to Zimbabwe would be handled by the
Heads of Government and essentially Margaret had the feeling
that Malcolm jumped the gun a bit in the releasing of this
to the public. I mean that's the essence of the story but
it has some " amusing" aspects to it.
CHIPP: As amusing as Memphis?
PM: I don't want to talk about Memphis. I think life is
more important than
CHIPP: Yes it is. what about your religious beliefs? I
haven't had a talk to you about that for a year or so. Have
you changed in any way towards your belief in a God or your
non-belief in a God?
-7-
PM: No, I'm still agnostic. I've always tried to let
people understand to the extent that they're interested
in what I believe and don't believe that I ceased to
believe in the form and so on that I have never really lost
not only my beliefs but commitment to what I perceive to be
the essential principle of Christianity and of some of the
other religions but essentially of religion in which I was
brought up. I mean what are those essentials? I think
they're very simple basically and that is that all people
are created equal or they are as they say in of
Christianity well all sons and daughters of God as for Jesus
Christ. As my father would put it to me if you have the one
Father then you're all brothers and sisters and that
involves a relationship between human beings. Now that sort
of fundamental has always guided my life.
SCHIPP: Prime Minister, would you mind waiting near the
so we can few people around here?
PM: Well I can see you need it mate, and I
CHIPP: Prime Minister, I want to congratulate you, I'm
going to give you a bad time hopefully in a minute. But for
the moment I want to congratulate you on the strength that
you and the Government have handled the pilots' strike. I
don't know anything more outrageous or contemptible than
what they are doing. They immeasurable damage to our
tourist industry and what they could do to is what I
regard of the most significant achievement of your
Government, namely the Accord. This morning I spoke to
the President of the Air Pilots Federation and he said this
and, I'd like you to comment
( comments were not fed to Canberra)
CHIPP: Well Prime Minister, it's a pretty serious
accusation, it's almost conspiritorial. I'd like you to
S comment on that as far as Australian Airlines are concerned
and maybe Sir Peter Abeles has told you something about
Ansett? PM: I simply don't believe Captain McCarthy and I've been
with the owners of the airlines and operators of airlines
yesterday. It simply is not true and if we're talking about
the president of the Airline Pilots Federation I'd just like
to read what a former president of the Federation, Captain
Tony Fitzgibbon's has said and this is the quote from a
memorandum which he circulated, ' there is no other pilot
group in the world that enjoys your overall pay structure'.
Now that's what they said and he's right. I mean if you'd
just like me to talk briefly about this, I won't take a long
time. What we've got to understand when we're talking about
pilots is that they have attempted to create some mystical,
magical illusion that pilots are somehow different because
they're up there flying aeroplanes, but not only are they
above the world in a physical sense but they are above and
beyond everyone else. Now let's get it straight. First of
all, how long do they work?
-8-
CHIPP: Well on average they told me available 300 hours
a month which is, 1 think, twisting a few figures.
PM: Look what is the average hours worked at the stick?
Eight hours a week at the stick. Now what do you do about
becoming a pilot? I mean are they really some mysterious
group of people? I mean I have learnt to fly. When I
was at oxford I joined the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Squadron. I learnt to fly. So I'm not talking about
something I know absolutely nothing about. I've learnt to
fly Now it's not extraordinarily difficult to learn to
fly. I mean you're a knock-about bloke, I mean you know
tradesmen don't you, a bloke's sort of done 4 or 5 years of
apprenticeship to become a tradesperson. In the very real
sense if your training involved in acquiring the skills in
many trades I mean to become a pilot.
CHIPP: Well I could support that. I was in the Air Force
and we had a 10 hour test. If you couldn't fly after
hours training
PM: inaudible
CHIPP: No you got kicked out, kicked out. So most of us
learnt to fly in about 7 hours.
PM: Yes, I was about 7. Now you and I would be saying in
putting that point that they haven't got an enormous
responsibility, of course they have. A bus driver has got
an enormous responsibility. The other thing again as a
pilot you notice when I first started flying as a passenger
in this country DC3' s were the Now Don, you just
compare flying in those days with now. First of all, you
know they say they're only of the time. Secondly, no
radar to enable them to dodge all the tough and rough
conditions. I mean in terms of actually flying now, it's
easier, infinitely easier, to fly now than it was before.
CHIPP: And safer.
PM: And safer. Now what they've got to understand is sure
it's glamorous but they are nothing special in terms of the
acquisition of skills or their importance to society.
-9-
CHIPP: Let's go to an even more fundamental issue, is it
your view and I ask you this, not only as Prime minister but
your experience in the trade union movement, if they grabbed
this 30 percent outside the guidelines, would you say that
is the end of the Accord? wages breakout, the like of
which we have not seen since 1974?
PM: That's right, although 1981
CHIPP: That was the last one, but the ' 74 breakout was
caused by a pilot
PM: Well it was you had the breakout in ' 81.
The interesting thing is, if I can make the political about
this, because what to some extent in the Financial
Review today, that what's on trial here is the Opposition's
new wages policy because the pilots are practising the
Opposition's wages policy. They say, get away with the
centralised wages system, let there be just negotiations
between employers and their employees, the pilots are
practising the Opposition. It's just a recipe for disaster.
CHIPP: But to be fair, didn't the opposition bring in an
amendment, a private members' bill last week, or tried to
bring it in in the Senate, which would have laid heavy
penalties on the pilots if they wouldn't return to work?
PM: They're talking about legislation penalties, but that's
not the point. The fundamental point about the Opposition's
wages policy is to do away with a centralised system so that
there can, in fact, be negotiations let it be worked
out between the employer and the employee. Now, as I say,
that's a recipe for disaster we've been there, tried it,
done it.
S CHIPP: Well, the President of the air pilots said on this
program, virtually ' if we can't get what we want within the
system, we'll go outside the system and grab it'.
PM: You have said that and what we're saying is OK boys, we
don't want you to go out, we want you to stay in, but the
system Alright if that's what you decide to do
this afternoon then you'll find out what's it's like outside
the system.
CHIPP: Can you confirm that your Government has given a
strict, unequivocal instruction to Australian Airlines that
under no circumstances are they to cave in on this?
PM: The interesting thing is we haven't had to ( tape break)
PM: and they made it quite clear there have been no
directive, they haven't needed to direct them because their
position has been quite clear, as is Ansett's. They know
CHIPP: Well if Australian don't give in it's on principle
that Ansett's would.
PM: Ansett won't give in and Australian won't give in. We
have this position that its operators and the Government are
at one on this because we all know that this would be the
end of the wages
CHIPP: There are about 1600 pilots, there's a nonsense
story coming out of Canberra this morning, that you might
bring the RAAF pilots into it.
PM: ( inaudible)
CHIPP: There wouldn't be enough.
PM: No, no, no, what we've got to face is if they go
outside the system and they don't provide their services,
there's no way in which we can provide an equivalent service
that the two major operators are providing, but what we are
looking at are ways in which we can provide some skeletal
sort of service.
CHIPP: For emergency only?
PM: well perhaps more than emergencies
CHIPP: You're not ruling out that if the worst comes to the
worst you could bring in, without prejudicing defence
requirements, a number of airforce pilots?
PM: I'm not ruling out anything.
CHIPP: I don't want to _ get a heavy talk on the Budget and
S lIi'kme sutrhei s? y ou Thdeo n'nte, w srbouto m caanr ouIn dj ushte re, whiycohu r isn exotn e qoufe sttiheon
best in the country, Thursday of last week and
said simply there's no news. I thought that was
extraordinary in Budget week, that on Thursday there was no
news to talk about.
PM: They're a great newsroom, but what they really meant by
that, what they really meant by that, there was no bad news,
there was nothing, no criticism going around. There's an
enormous amount of news in it. I mean, as you know, the
importance of what we've done in the area of pensions and
superannuation. Enormous news but not bad news.
-11-
CHIPP: Exactly, well that ought to please you. But could I
just put a gloom note
PM: Come on
CHIPP: Yes, I must because there are two messages loud and
clear in that goddamn Budget, mainly that we're going to
have inflation, according to you, of 7.5 percent for the
year and that we're going to be $ 18.5 billion deeper in debt
at the end of the year. Now those two figures are very bad
news. PM: But the good part, and you're right in terms of the
year on your average, but the Budget and Budget papers make
it quite clear that through the year there's going to a
decline, I mean, the rate will be going down, both in
inflation and in regard to the current account deficit. In
other words, we will have in the first part of the financial
year high figures, but they will be coming down through the
year. CHIPP: The latest you can have an election without having a
half Senate is about May isn't it?
PM: That if we go with the half Senate, that's about it.
CHIPP: Are you prepared to rule out today that you will not
have a half Senate election?
PM: I've answered that question, I just said it's not on as
far as I can see it.
CHIPP: It's rule out-
PM: As far as I can see, I can't see
CHIPP: we can now look forward with certainty, there
will be an election in may or before 1990?
PM: That's as I see it, yes. In may or before.
CHIPP: But you're the only one who has got a say in it.
PM: I make the decision, yes.
CHIPP: I put it fair on you, right here and now, as a
buddy. Come on, is there going to be an election in May or
before? PM: There'll be, I believe, an election in May or before.
CHIPP: What sort of circumstances would lead you to going
earlier?
-12-
PM: Well, I've indicated I can go before may.
CHIPP: Well, what sort of circumstances would persuade you
to go earlier than May?
PM: Well I'm not talking about significantly earlier than
May. I mean, it just seems to me, that if you look at the
record of my Government, it's gone from what we did in ' 84,
as you know, as you were fully aware and you agreed with, we
had the election in ' 84 early so that you could synchronise
the Senate and the House of Representatives.
CHIPP: Are you prepared to rule out this morning you won't
go before Christmas?
PM: I don't see it. I don't see it.
CHIPP: A fair question is do you rule it out?
PM: You're asking me to say in regard to every conceivable
or unconceivable circumstance, if, not on. The honest
answer I give you, as far as I can possibly see it, it is
not on.
CHIPP: So if circumstances continue as they are you'd rule
it out?
PM: Yes.
CHIPP: Thank you. Prime Minister,...... people can talk to
the Prime minister of Australia. We've got a few calls if
you wouldn't mind putting your earphones on and we'll go to
David from
CALLER: Prime Minister, I'd like to say that I support your
S on your line with the pilots and I think most of my
friends feel the same way
PM: Can it just be turned up a bit, I'm not hearing it too
well. CALLER: OK, well look I'm going to get a bit contrary now
unfortunately, but I've got a bone to pick with you on what
I see as a very big contradiction in Government policies.
PM: Yes.
CALLER: Namely the immigration policy and the environmental
statement that you just released.
PM: Yes.
CALLER: Now the statement targets basically soil
degradation and pollution and so forth
-13-
PM4: Yes.
CALLER: But it seems to totally ignore the impact of the
increase in population.
PM4: Yes.
CALLER: Now the ACF policy states that increasing
population is inconsistent with environmental protection and
in fact the CSIRO, I think, state that the upper sustainable
limit is about 22 million in this country, as they see it
and we'll probably be about 29 million population will
lead directly to increased pollution and soil degradation.
Now
S CHIPP: David, would you come to your question please, we've
got a lot of calls.
CALLER: I'd just like to ask you why just totally ignore
it? It just seems that the Government seems to think that
increase in population really has nothing to do with the
environment? PM: No, I don't think that. In fact any scientific study
that you want to look at will point to the fact that in
regard to the major environmental problem facing the world,
that is the Greenhouse effect and depletion of the ozone
layer, the enormous increase in population and
associated human activity is one of the fundamental
contributing factors. Now having said that, you haven't
rendered any intelligent analysis of the issue, you've got
to say alright, what are the sorts of things which you can
do in the context of a growing population to limit the
adverse environmental factors of the way we as human beings
S wceo ndcuacnt amouern d acantdi viatdijeuss t noouwr anadc titvhietriee sa, r e bomtahn y hewraey s anidn wahriocuhnd
the world. The other point I want to make is this....
that our population policy in this country is a component
obviously of two things. One, our natural increase within
the country and our immigration policy. I want to make it
clear to you that, as far as I'm concerned, we have an
obligation to take people from other parts of the world and
we need, I think, to optimise our productive capacity, more
people. So the answer is, sure population is relevant,
intelligently see what you can do to change the pattern of
activities to avoid the worst consequences of excessive past
practices. CHIPP: We now go to Don from Blackburn. Good morning Don.
CALLER: Good morning Don.
CHIPP: Is Bob Hawke stopping you and your wife from having
children?
-14-
CALLER: Yes, I believe there's two forms of discrimination
going on. I'd like to ask Mr Prime Minister a question, is
that both my wife and I have worked extremely hard to get
into our house for many years, we have no need for
Government subsidies or anything such as that. We're
ordinary Australians who pay taxes, but we feel if we have
children we're going to then rely on the Government
to help us out with certain subsidies because we can't
afford to pay the interest rates. The second thing is,
there is discrimination with two sets of interest rates as
far as 13, opposed to 17. I'd like to find out what advice
Mr Hawke has for me.
PM: Well first thing, Don, I want to say is that I know
that high interest rates are hurting but I hope that you
accept that I'm a reasonably intelligent sort of bloke and
that I know that they are causing some discomfort and I
haven't got them there for fun. They are there for a very
simple reason. They are there for the interests of all
Australians, including yourself. We've got a situation now
where the level of activity in the economy is so high that
we're sucking in a level of imports that we can't afford.
Now, we have got to slow the level of activity down. We
couldn't have a Budget policy tighter, we've got the fourth
successive year of real reductions in our Commonwealth
outlays, we've moved the Budget into massive surplus. We've
got a tight wages policy, the third arm of policy is
monetary policy. That means we've got to have tight
monetary policy and high interest rates and that's for your
welfare and the welfare of all Australians because if we
didn't do that, if we laxed these arms of policy then what
would in fact happen, the economy would collapse and
interest rates would go absolutely through the roof. So
Don, they are there because it's necessary. I wouldn't have
interest rates at that level for one second higher than is
necessary. I give you the undertaking that they will come
down as soon as it's responsible to take that action. The
second point in regard to discrimination, you had a
position where there was the regulation of those interest
rates at 13.5 percent, it's now only of the order of 35 to
percent who are in that situation, that commitment was
made and that will be kept.
CHIPP: Thank you very much for your call. We now go to
Gary from Ivanhoe.
CALLER: Good morning Don, happy birthday.
CHIPP: Thank you very much mate.
CALLER: Thank you for the opportunity of talking to Mr
Hawke. Mr Hawke,
PM: Yes, Gary.
CALLER: About two and a half years ago I lost my eyesight.
I'm not whingeing about that, for a year I sat under a rock
and felt sorry for myself, but for the last eighteen months
I've been busting my guts to get back into the workforce and
re-establish myself. I've had a managerial background and
had my own business and so on, but what really gets up my
nose is the fact that the whole system is designed to crush
you, from the point of view, people say ' oh yes, but Gary,
now what you're good for is opening the bloody letters or
answering the phone'. Your equal opportunity, I'm not
blaming you because you probably don't know, but the equal
opportunity philosophy is not working. There's 8,000
visibly impaired people here in Victoria, 44 of them are
looking for work. of those 44, probably 12 will make it.
I'll make it because what this has taught me is that it's
0 taught me that I'm very strong. In fact I had a talk to
your, my local member is Peter Staples and a pretty fair
bloke too
PM: Good bloke.
CALLER: Good bloke, and he said he has to stay at arms
length to the Public Service. He can't ring up one of his
guys and say ' look, have a look at this Gary Farmer and get
him into a position of his ability'.
PM: Yes.
CALLER: It is very frustrating.
PM: Gary, look, let me say two things quickly and the
second thing I hope which will be specifically helpful to
you. First, we are conscious of the need to improve the
whole disabilities program, we've made lots of improvements,
by no means perfect. But look, in regard to your own case,
0 obviously on air I can't discuss it in detail, but would you
do this, please? Would you write to my mate, Chippy, and
just set out your background and your address, I'd like to
correspond with you directly and take into account, because
while Peter is right in saying you can't instruct the Public
Service, you've got to stay at arms length, there's
nevertheless some things that we may be able to help. I'd
like to know the circumstances. If you write to Don I give
you my personal undertaking I'll look at it and see what we
can do.
CHIPP: Gary, you can't do better than that.
CALLER: No, that's great.
CHIPP: OK, fantastic and we'll help you here as well.
Gary thanks for calling and thanks for everyone else who
called.
-16-
PM: Don, I deliberately hadn't said anything about this
point beforehand because I didn't know whether, before I
came on, it had been shared with the public, but it is your
birthday. CHIPP: Yes, indeed
PM: Well you've told me some of the rudenesses, but often
rudeness only occurs because it's properly attracted.
CHIPP: bottle of vitamin E cream?
PM: Well looking at your face, I'd put it on my face. But
sincerely, mate, what you said at the beginning is right,
we've been mates for a long time, had the odd arguments, but
I feel a great friendship for you and I think you're lucky
to have survived this long.
CHIPP: ( inaudible)
PM: Yes, yes, sure it helps but
CHIPP: Two things in the world that you've got to do is to
love and be loved. You can do those two things, you're
going to be happy and you're going to live a long time.
PM: Yes I'm not talking in a sensual or serious way,
but love is something that is capable I'm not talking in a
sexist sense-
CHIPP: No, no-
PM: There's more than the physical relations and so you can
have love for an enormous number of people.
CHIPP: I know you love a lot of people. I've seen the
emotions on your face and we're not talking in a
sensual or sexual way and it makes it one of the best things
that you can have.
PM: And mateship is not just between blokes.
CHIPP: That's right.
PM: Well you can have the quality of mateship between
sexes. But any rate, I just want to say to you really happy
birthday, all the best.
CHIPP: Thanks for coming in. Keep on being a good Prime
minister. PM: Thank you very much indeed.
ends