57-
TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH JANA WENDT, A CURRENT AFFAIR,
JUNE 1989
E 0 E PROOF ONLY
WENDT: Australia has already lodged a formal protest with
the Chinese over the brutal suppresion of the Beijing
students and Prime Minister Bob Hawke has called off a
planned visit to China later this year. But the Federal
Government has stopped short of severing diplomatic links or
imposing trade sanctions. The Prime Minister joins us now
live from Parliament House in Canberra. Mr Hawke thank you
for your time this evening.
PM: My pleasure.
WENDT: You have expressed our disapproval as a nation for
what's happened in China. Can I ask you how you feel
personally about all this?
PM: I feel a sense of tragedy Jana, tragedy for the people
that have been killed and injured, a sense of tragedy for
the nation of China because this has in one blow smashed in
a sense all the goodwill that over the last few years China
has accumulated by the opening up of its doors, the change
of direction, its economic policies, the gradual appearance
of a more open society.
WENDT: Do you think we've been misguided in thinking that
China is changing?
PM: No I don't think we have. The world has taken the view
on the evidence that the changes have been for the better.
In economic terms it's had a more open economy. There has
been more of a market economy. There has been more openings
to the West. There have been more joint ventures. There's
been the introduction of more technology from the West.
There's been more cooperation. And while the economic
opening up and freeing up of the system has not been
accompanied by the same degree of opening on the political
front, nevertheless it has become a relatively to what it
was before a freer society.
WENDT: Mr Hawke what more can we do as a nation tonight?
PM: I think what we have to do is to keep our people there
so that we can both continue directly from our people there
to make our position clear and also to monitor the situation
so that we can be as well informed as we possibly can. We
-2-
PM ( cont): have approximately 500 people in China this is
not just Embassy people but people who are there at the
Embassy, students, business people, approximately 500
Australians permanently there, and we have to see that their
interests are guarded and watched and I don't think it makes
sense for Australia Jana, or for any other western country
to pull out their diplomatic representation. But what is
necessary is that we make clear in the strongest and most
unequivocal terms our repudiation of the violence and the
tragedy and to put to the authorities of China, the ageing
authorities of China, that force can never provide a lasting
resolution of the sorts of problems that they see themselves
confronted with.
WENDT: Mr Hawke this is a shocking death toll. Isn't it
time for us to do something more like trade sanctions for
instance?
PM: No I don't think anyone in a country in the world is
yet contemplating that sort of approach. You've got to
understand the economic framework of China that exports
constitute only about 14% of their level of production.
They are relatively well placed in terms of their reserves.
They have reserves that would cover the best part of 6
months of imports. So I don't think that makes sense at
tahuitsh orsittaigee. s arJea nan ott hagto idnoge stno ' tc ommee ant o thtahte iri f sethnes esC hiannde sechange
direction and that we get an acceleration of violence that
we together with the rest of the world may not have to
contemplate different sorts of action.
WENDT: So some action is possible in that regard. Let me
just ask you quickly, what about those 13,000 or so Chinese
students in Australia who have so far stuck their necks out
in support of the demonstrations, what can we do for them if
they seek political asylum?
PM: Firstly let me say I think they are courageous in
making it clear their identification with their colleagues
in China. I commend them for their courage because in a
sense there is a risk. At this stage the question of asylum
has not arisen and we will have to look at that further down
the track if you have a situation where you had a worsening
of the position in China and these people here were able to
establish that they would be at risk. But that's down the
track Jana.
WENDT: Prime Minister if you'd like to stay with us, after
the break we'd like to look at an issue much closer to home
and that is rising interest rates. We'll be back with more
in a moment. ( break)
WENDT: Prime Minister Hawke is still with us in Canberra
and he has agreed to watch this report on one street in the
mortgage belt where interest rates have hit hardest. Prime
Minister, do those people have a legitimate gripe?
-3-
PM: Of course they do. I understand their position and I
hope that they will understand when I say that I understand
that there is no way Jana, and I say this directly to those
people, there is no way that I would have interest rates at
this level for a day longer than was necessary. We don't
have them there for fun Jana, we don't have them there on
the basis of saying well we know that people there, out in
Kingsgrove Street, are going to be hurt. You don't do it
for that reason. The problem that we have is that we have
an economy which has been growing so fast with so many new
jobs being created and so much investment taking place which
is creating new jobs that we've reached a point where we
have to bring back that level of activity. Because we can't
afford, Jana, as a nation we can't afford to keep up that
level of activity any longer. The only way that we've got
to bring down that level of activity is for some time to
have interest rates fairly high.
WENDT: Mr Hawke, it's pretty clear from what those people
are saying that your explanation just now means nothing to
them. PM: I can understand that. If I were in their position I
would be hurt, I would be angry and I would be looking to
take it out on the Government. I can understand that, I'm
not bitter about them. I'm simply asking them to believe me
when I say this, that if we were to lower interest rates
now, artificially, then the result for them and for all
Australians would be very much worse, because I tell you
what would happen. What would happen is that the dollar
would plunge and in that situation you would then have
interest rates which would go right through the roof, far
worse than they are now.
WENDT: Mr Hawke, those people are saying that you and your
Treasurer are responsible for creating the economic
circumstances whereby those interest rates are so
astronomically high now.
PM: If I can answer that, and if you'll let me answer it,
let me say this. Of-course the Government is responsible
for economic policy. We are also responsible in the conduct
of that economic policy over the six years we've been in
office for creating 1,400,000 jobs.
WENDT: Mr. Hawke, if I can interrupt you, it really doesn't
mean anything to those people that we're talking about now.
PM: Jana, you say, I mean I get half an answer out, let me
please make the point, I mean you are saying they say I'm
responsible and my Government's responsible for what's
happened in this country. We are, they are right. What I'm
-4-
PM ( cont): trying to say, put it in the perspective that we
have been responsible for massive economic growth and
unfortunately the growth which has been reflected in the
massive increase in jobs is now simply too high and we do
have to rein back that level of growth.
WENDT: Well, can I say to you that the plumber and the
public servant and the truck driver and the policeman in
that story don't buy that argument. They are hurting. They
are people who are not asking for more money, they are
saying we simply can't make it any more because of what the
Government has done to us.
PM: Well, you say they are not asking for more money. In a
sense, the community has been and we are delivering on that.
Next month, if you take, let me take an average family,
average weekly earnings and with one income and with two
kids, they will be getting another $ 24 a week as a result of
the tax cuts.
WENDT: But Mr Hawke, even your Treasurer is saying that
those tax cuts will be eaten up to a certain degree by these
increasing interest rates.
PM: There is no doubt about that. Of course to some extent
the increases in money that they receive, about $ 24 a week
on average, of course that will be partially eaten up by
increases in interest rates, I understand that. I'm simply
making the point that as a result of the combination of
policies, there are jobs, these people are in work, they are
going to get very substantial tax cuts which tax cuts will
add up, on average, to over $ 100 a month.
WENDT: But to some of those people, those tax cuts you
understand are meaningless.
PM: Well, look, $ 100 a month coming in can't be
meaningless.
WENDT: Well, some of these people have had their mortgages
rise by $ 120 in a couple of those cases.
PM: OK, I accept
WENDT: There goes the tax cut.
PM: I accept what they say, but on average, around
Australia the tax cuts that people will be getting will more
than offset, on average, the increases in interest rates.
Now, look, I want those people to understand we haven't been
conducting economic policy to create more jobs, to have
Australia growing, on the basis then that we want to hurt
people, we want to help people, but the only way now that we
can help people is by calling some sort of a halt to the
rate of growth that we've got, Jana. So this is not going
to last forever, we've got to have it for a while to rein
back the level of activity and when that happens, then
interest rates will be coming down.
WENDT: Well, Mr Hawke, they've heard you say that before.
You told them back in January that interest rates would fall
and they're still waiting.
PM: Well, I understand that. The rate of growth in the
economy has surprised not only the Government, but every
economic commentator in this country. The rate of growth,
the continued expansion, has been beyond what everyone
expected and so we have to now haul that back. I simply say
to those people, I'm thinking all the time, all the time,
there's not a day goes past when I don't direct my thinking
to what's the range of things that we can do so that we can
get the right policies in place, the tight policy, so that
as soon as possible those interest rates will be coming
down. I just express the hope that in that period we've
got, the next few months, when the tax cuts will be coming
in, that that will enable them to hold the line and then
holding the line with those tax cuts within a situation then
when interest rates will come down.
WENDT: Mr Hawke we will have to leave it there I'm afraid.
I do appreciate your time this evening.
PM: Thank you very much indeed Jana.
ends