PRIME MINISTER
TRANSCRIPT OF JOINT PRESS CONFERENCE WITH THE MINISTER FOR ABORIGINAL
AFFAIRS, MR GERRY HAND, KATHERINE GORGE, THURSDAY 3 SEPTEMBER
1987
PROOF ONLY
E & O E ...............................................
JOURNALIST:
Prime Minister, do you anticipate that Katherine Gorge will be returned to the J~ antribe?
PM:
We are awaiting the report of the Royal Conunissioner, Kearney, and we will examine that. But we will take into account the interests of all concerned that Is the Aboriginal people. And I understand that earlier they had Indicated that if the land were to go to them they would have been prepared to lease it back to the Northern Territory Government. I don't think there is any indication of desire on-the part of the Aboriginal people concerned to want to deny acdess to the hundreds of thousands of visitors who want to come hare. Nor would I believe there would be any substance in the suggestion that they would want to deny water to the people of Katherine who depend upon it as a source of supply. I am quite confident that when the report of the Royal Commission does become available we will be able to act on it in a way which will meet the legitimate interests of everybody concerned.
JOURNALIST:
Mr Hawke, on the question of the treaty. Last night. the Secretary of your Department of Aboriginal Affairs said that compact Isn't enough, that it has got to be a proper treaty.
PM:
I heard what Mr Perkins said.
JOURNALIST:
Will you take any action on it?
PM:
Would I what?
JOURNALIST:
Would you take any action, say any action against him?
PM:
I don't want to takeijatnagnshm. Iavgo a Minister who has already proved himself an excellent Minister. He will handle anything that needs to be handled if there is anything-that needs to be handled.
JOURNALIST:
What Mr Perkins has drawn attention to, Mr Hawke, is that where you say you really are just talking about a form of words between a compact and a treaty. tMr Porkinn draws a very cloar and sihaxy difrarenice between the two.
PM; l There will be a lot of discussions go on ' and people like Mr Perkins will be able to have their input. 2.
JOURNALIST: Could we just go back over the point that I think
you touched on in that interview earlier this morning. Do I
understand you correctly as saying that if It really comes to
a crunch that you would be prepared to accept a treaty as opposed
to compact?
FM: I am simply saying at this stage the words don't mean anything.
It is what you are in fact going to do and the attitude with
which you are going to approach it. And if I felt that the sort
of things that you needed to be achieving required a particular
formulation or~ wording, I am simply saying I am not ' qoing to
get hung up on the wording. But I don't think that we should
be creating unreal expectations by uiing a word now which may
have connotations that are inappropriate or undeliverable.
JOURNALIST Connotations relating to any financial payback to
Aboriginals? PM: Not Just financial matters. I am really getting rather
bored with the discussion. I made the point so clear that I
am not going to get hung up on a word. I really am bored with
the discussion about whether it is a treaty, compact or another
word. What we have got to get on with is the discussion of the
issues. I really am finding it boring.
JOURNALIST.: BwLt you must understand that there is some confusion
over the terms that you have used, Prime Minister, that people
aren't sure exactly what you are moving towards?
PM: They will have to read the transcript and they will see
that the sorts of things that I have got in mind. I am not
going to cloud the issue now by saying it must be
something which is a treaty, it must be something which is
a compact. That is nonsense. And I repeat, I find it boring.
JOURNALIST: Whatever it is going to be called, can you explain
furthier the mechanism for putting this pact, or treaty, or
compact of understanding in place.
PM: Mr Hand will be having discussions with representatives
right throughout the Aboriginal community. And not Just the
Aboriginal community but I think it is more approp'riate that
you should ask Gerry just how he feels that iewill he going
about the process. j
JOURNALIST: Do you like the idea the Prime lmister mentioned
yesterday of the concept being in the preamb to leiislation
for the Commission of Aboriginal Affairs.
HAND: It is one of the options but let me rp'peat whA~ t he
said. He said it could be a treaty, it coull'a compact, it
could be an agreement. And what we have to lo is wor) c out
the best form of approach and we will do tha: throug4h consultation.
When we hava the consultations we will be int A bete' position
to tell everybody what is in it. ter
JOURNALIST: What are the options then, the pther options?
HAND: There are a lot of options and when we have those
HA. ND cont: consultations with the people that are going to
affected by it, in the main, we will be in a better position
to tell you and everybody else.
JOURNALIST: Was this announcement, in that event, a little
premature? HAND: Of course not. Why shouldn't You let people know the
direction you are going in. And that is what we have done.
JOURNALIST: Because you have immediately got a potential
backlash and conflict which might otherwise have been avoided
prior PM: That means you do not do anything or say anything.
That is not the way we operate.
JOURNALIST: Mr Hand, the Aboriginal people, some of them
for quite a long period of time have been talking about a
makerrata which is a sort of a concept of a treaty which
would actually talk about sovereignty aboriginal sovereignty.
and prior ownership rights'-are you at this stage prepared
to look at anything towards that?
HAND: There has been a lot of things written on the issue
and there are briefing papers about 2 foot high on it. And
it is one of the things that will be taken into consideration.
That was the result of a few years ago and when we have those
consultations, as I said, we will then come forward
JOURNALIST: an indication whether your consultations
would go that that would be something that was still an
option?
HAND: That is one of the things that Aboriginal people have
put forward themselves. So obviously when we are talking
to them I am sure some of them will put it forward again.
But it will be taken into consideration.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, can I just ask one more question
about the Gorge. Do you envisage, if the report recommends,
as most people anticipate, that the application be granted,
that a similar process will apply here as applies at Ayres
Rock, on a leasebacX arrangement.
PM! All I was saying on that is that according to the information
I have been given that early in the piece that proposition
was advanced by the representatives of the Aboriginal people.
I am simply saying that I have no doubt at all that we will
be able to reach an arrangement whereby the legitimate interests
and concerns of everybody involved will be met. I really
do find it fascinating in politics how much time is spent
by the media in advancing an issue, saying what about this
problem, what that problem, what about this Problem, what about
that problem. You seem to spend so much of your life imagining
problems that are going to arise. And it is very interesting
and probably productive for you it fills in time but is
so very rarely relevant to how things work out.
4.
JOURNALIST: There are some tensions, no matter how badly
based here, about that issue. I thought perhaps some of the
people might like to know what is going happen when the Gorge
is handed to them?
PM: It doesn't make sense. It is not the way I govern, run
the country, with my Ministers, to say there has been an inquiry
set up but before we get the report we will say this is what
is going to happen. That is not a sensible way to conduct
affairs. JOURNALIST: Mr Hawke, on a more positive note, what practical
difference PM: I wasn't thinking we had been on other than
a positive note
JOURNALIST: What practical difference will a compact make
to Aboriginal Australians for next year?
PM: Again it goes back to the point that I and Gerry have
been making. It depends, to some extent, on not Just what
is in the whatever we call it treaty, compact but I get
back to the point that it will depend very much upon the attitudes
that surround the arrival at that arrangement whatever it
is. I keep getting back to the point that I want to see the
people of Australia the Aborigines and the non-Aborigines
have a more positive understanding of the relationship of
our 200 years of history to the previous 40., 000 years. And
it is the attitude that in many senses that is going to be
more important than what is contained in the compact or call
it what you will. And I don't find it useful to be contemplating
at this stage, suggesting what particular provisions, clauses
words, are going to be In this arrangement. I don't think
that helps anyone. It is important that what we have flagged
is that we are about the process of consultation between the
representatives of the Aborigines in this country and the
Government and the community generally to try and get a better
basis of understanding. And that is the important thing.
. OURNALIST: Will you consider any sort of financial or property
compensation for the Aboriginal
PM: I have answered that sort of question. And it really
is pointless to be going and saying this is what we will do,
this is what we won't do. Consultation is about addressing
the issues, hearing what people have got to say. I have got
no doubt that suggestions in that area will arise. And
Gerry has made it quite clear that he is going to be listening
to whatever people have to say.
JOURNALIST: Mr Hand, has anyone yet solved the problem of
claims over stock routes in the Northern Territory?
HAND: No, we start a process on Friday, I am sorry we commenced
a f ew weeks back when we came and met the government, the
pastoralists and the land councils separately and we got
them to agree to a joint meeting on Friday. We will be having
that and we are confident that we will solve that problem.
But we will do it slowly and together. Just as we will approach
HAND cont: a lot of the problems, all of the problems, in
the future. Quietly and slowly and we will solve them all.
JOURNALIST: Are you getting the sort of co-operation you
want from the Northern Territory Government.
HAND: I have had tremendous co-operation from the 3 parties.
And I would hope that that is going to continue. I have got
no doubt that it will.
JOURNALIST: They are all going to be together tomorrow.
ARe you anticipating a few fights.
HAND: No. Everybody is going to be very relaxed I am told
because we are all out to fix up the problem. And I think
there is a realisation now that everything is going to go
on the table tomorrow afternoon. And everybody will now where
everybody else stands. And then we will set about settling
the issue.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister on the question of states moving
towards some sort of land rights legislation. Do you have
a timetable for that given 1988 is the year
PM: No, not a timetable. Gerry is going to be meeting. In
this next week, Western Australia, South Australia and Queensland.
And I don't think you help by saying there is a timetable.
It is not the way we do things. If you say there is a timetable
you are putting constraints on the way people act. Obviously.
we would like to see thing settled as soon as possible. But
I don't think time is the essence of it.
JOURNALIST: Mr Hawke, what would you say quite a few white
Australians who feel threatened by the concept of aboriginal
land rights or aboriginal sovereignty or making any sort of
pact or treaty. How would you explain your position to them?
PM: I would urge them to be calm, to think, not be
overcome by emotional propaganda. When I see some of the
sorts of things that have been said, advertised over the past
few years, it just makes you despair a little bit. You should
remember some of the campaigns in Western Australia maps
that were presented with 90% or 95% of the state of Western
Australia coloured in black. I just ask people to be rational
and calm and to understand that it is possible, quite possible,
to recognise the concerns and rights of the Aboriginal people
and still to do it in a way which is going to impose no threat
whatsoever to the legitimate interests of the European population.
JOURNALIST: You suggested a while back that Australians weren't
compassionate enough to deal with these sorts of issues.
Do you think things have changed?
PM: Let's be accurate in what I said. What I said was
that in 1967 it was quite a remarkable decision that was made
by the Australian people given their history in regard to
the passage of referenda, or non-passage of referenda. By
PM cont: an overwhelming majority they decided that legislative
power should be given to the federal parliament in regard
to aboriginal affairs. What I said was that it does appear
that in the period since then, as tougher economic circumstances
emerged, that the Australian commnity didn't seemi to be so
compassionate and concerned as it had been in those perhaps
more halcyon full employment days. I think that is simply
a statement of fact. It doesn't mean, and I didn't say it,
that the Australian people didn't have compassion. I was
just saying I think it is observable that when you get into
tougher economic circumstances that is not full employment
people perhaps tend to centre in upon themselves a little
bit more then they do in earlier days. I think it is just
a question of responsibility of government, governments, community
organisations, and individuals to understand that we can discharge
the obligations we have to less fortunate members of our society.
And do it In a way which doesn't diminish, but properly looked
at, enhances the whole of the community, I think.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, Just one final thing-
PM: Okay.
JOURNALIST: Without wanting to pre-empt Justice Kearney's
report would your Government consider imposing conditions
on any possible future ownerships such as relating to water
or management?
PM: What I am saying is that we will require that the interests
. the legitimate interests, of everyone involved have to be
taken into account. You can meet the interests of people
in a number of ways. You can do it simply by negotiation
without imposing things on people. You can just, out of
the process of negotiation, you can get a recognition of those
interests. But whatever way it is done there will be a recognition
of everybody's interests.
JOURNALIST: Can Aborigines look forward to a maintained or
increased level of funding in the bicentennial year?
PM: I think so. I certainly anticipate, on the record of
this government, at least a maintained level.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, at a local level, for the Icoal
press, was the principal of St Joseph's College, who I believe
lobbied you rather heavily last night
PM:
Is that Sister Patricia? She's a great advocate.
JOURNALIST:
Did her pleas fall on deaf ears totally or
PM:
No politician worth his salt has deaf ears. I was impressed by what she had to say and I will certainly be talking with not Just the MInister for Education but we want to be sure 9 that there is going to be here in Katherine the educational
facilities to cope with what is, for it, a very significant increase in population. We have got to make sure that those facilities are there. So I will be discussing these matter matters with the relevant Ministers and I will try and ensure
that the facilities are there. It is not Just the Commonwealth involved. It is the Northern Territory Government.
But what is happening here with the ( break in tape) it is very important for the whole of Australia. It is a pivotal part of the new forward defensive structure of the country. And because that is so we can't ask one small community to bear, entirely itself, a burden development for the whole country. So we will look at it. I can't imagine that these sort of things haven't been taken into account. But following my visit here I will certainly have discussions to see what the picture is. If there is more that needs to be done, we will try and do it.
ENDS