E O E PROOF ONLY
TRANSCRIPT OF PRESS CONFERENCE AT THE MANILA HOTEL
MANILA 25 MAY 1986
JOURNALIST: Mr Hawke, can you give us some indication
of the discussions with Hu Yaobang, what were the nature
of the discussions?
PM: I can't go into all the details but I can say to you
that we covered a broad range of relations involving China
with the West, with the Soviet Union and with our own bilateral
relationships. And he gave me his exposition of the way
he and the leadership have China saw the current position
in regard to those relations and their view of the future.
Now there are a couple of aspects of those discussions
which were by their nature confidential and I am not in
a position to elaborate on them.
JOURNALIST: Sir, bearing in mind our relationship or our
position on the Security Council, was South Africa discussed,
any South African initiatives put?
PM: South Africa was mentioned and their position is clearly
as you would expect as being in something of a leadership
with the third world countries in. line with the sort of
approach that we have adopted but. it would be misleading
to suggest that it occupied a significant part of our discussion.
JOURNALIST: Do you think as a result of these talks their
will be any diplomatic action or initiatives taken with
Australia individually or jointly with other countries
and do you see these talks as the outlook for Australian
foreign policy to any great extent?
PM: I will take the second part first. I can't see that
as a result of these talks that there will be any change
in direction of Australia's foreign policy. For that to
be the outcome you would have expected that there were
some issues on which we had differences of opinion and
that we were therefore either going to convert China or
we were going to be converted ourselves. The great benefit
of the relationship that we have is that there is considerable
identity of positions in regard to bilateral and regional
and global matters that substantial identity was confirmed
in these talks. So no, Paul, I don't see new directions.
What 1 do see, which I think is of importance, is the confirmation
of the position between us that it was appropriate because
of what I have said, because of the substantial identity
of views that we have on this wide range issues that we
should increase the level of consultation that we have.
And this really to be done in these ways, the consultation
that takes place in the forums and between our representatives
should continue and be strengthened and a suggestion that
there should be even more interchange of correspondence
between us at the leadership level on particular issues
and that certainly something that we will be doing.
JOURNALIST: What kind of issues are you talking about?
PM: Well, just let me give you an example Mike, take the
question of the Committee on Disarmament and the Comprehensive
Test Ban Treaty. In that area wie think it appropriate that
we should have even closer consultation. The Chinese for
instance, also have, I think, a growing interest in the
South Pacific region and so I think we would be moving
to keep them even more closely informed about developments
there. They were very appreciative of the initiative that
I took at the last forum of indicating to the forum countries
the fact of China's growing interest in the South Pacific
region and our preparedness to act if you like as an intermediary,
an introducer of China to the countries of the South Pacific
region. Those facts you may recall are noticed in the South
Pacific Forum Communique. Anid I have undertaken tb continue
to advance the notification of their interest to the countries
of the forum. So I use those sorts of examples and it is
not intended to be exhaustive in any way.
JOURNALIST: Did you get any indication from
the Chinese that they might scale down development of their
own nuclear program other than the announcement they have
made not to go ahead with atmospheric nuclear tests?
PM: You mean their program for peaceful purposes, the
generation of power you mean?
PM: No, I meant the development of nuclear weapons.
PM: No. no indication in that area other than within the
general statement of commitment that they share with us
to the desire to create a position in which there will
be a move on the part of the two super powers to move to
further talks to bring about a reduction in the level of
nuclear arms. They identify with our position in that area
and to the extent that there was as a result of those discussions
and other initiatives in international forums an increase
in the thrust towards disarmament particularly in the nuclear
area, China would identify with that thrust but apart from
that, no. there was nothing.
JOURNALIST: Mir Hawke, can I quote from yesterday's China
D~ aily in which there is a storey that says that Pakistan's
President said here on Thursday that the development
of relations between Pakistan and China has provided
a model for the rest of the world on peaceful co-existence
between countries of different social systems. That has
a familiar ring to it, does it suggest that this is a consistent
diplomatic line that the Chinese use?
PM: You are saying that the President of Pakistan said
that.
JOURNALIST: The President of Pakistan said that the relationship
between Pakistan and China
PM: Yes, I heard what you said. If the President of Pakistan
said that I am glad he is saying it. I think if they can
develop good or better relations we welcome that. We don't
seek to have a monopoly good relations with C hina and
you wouldn't say that our system was identical with that
of Pakistan. Now when I talk about and the Chinese talk
about model constituted by that between Australia and China,
we are talking about. in our case, a parliamentary democracy,
Now, by now stretch of the imagination or the English language
does that apply to Pakistan. So there will be obviously
a number of models and I have no reason and I am sure the
Chinese have no reason to change the statement we have
made in regard to the appropriateness of our model for
our system.
PM: Prime Minister, did you discuss the Chinese relationship
with the Soviet Union and if so did you perceive any change?
PM: There were discussions particularly with Hu Yaobang
although not exclusively with him on this issue. There
were some elements of the discussion which I am not at
liberty to go to. But I think I can fairly say this that
the position of the Chinese leadership is that they are
consciously liftingl the level of the economic and commercial
relationship and they see th at as beneficial to them and
of some benefit to the Soviet Union. But they are quite
clear that that lifting of the economic relationship does
not involve a normalisation of the political relationship.
The three obstacles are clearly not merely a matter of
political rhetoric with the Chinese leadership. Anid those
three obstacles as you know are the substantial presence
of Soviet military forces on their border-, the occupation
of Afghanistan and their presence in Vietnam. Those three
issues are ( if quite fundamental significance to China and
while those three obstacles remain then I believe that
they are studying the position as it is and they state,
yes, an improvement in economic relationships but no normalisation
of the political relationship.
JOURNALIST: Mr Hawke, did you cover with Mr Hu relations
with Indonesia because China has not got on well with Jakarta
for many years and we have been having our concerns. Did
you cover these particular problems each country is having?
PM: There was a reference to the region and Indonesia
did get mentioned but it would be quite wrong to say in
answer to your question that was any detailed discussion
on the points you raised.
JOURANLIST: Do you think we have any role at all to play
in the relationship between China and the United States
and what was discussed?
PM: Well, you would know that out of my previous meetings,
the earliest meetings in 1983 that we did raise with the
United States the question of the then current United States
position towards China on the exchange of technology where
China was categorised in the same group as the Soviet Union.
Now we raised that matter and following but I am not saying
exclusively as a result of our representations the categorisation
by the United States of China was changed to friendly but
not allied country. And there was an increase in the exchange
of technology. So it is the case that from the very beginning
of the relationship with China under my Government starting
in 1983, we have seen it as appropriate to use our particular
relatinship with the United States to advance the cause
of closer China/ United States relations. And in the discussinsw
that I had on this occasion without in any sense going
into details because I am not going to, it is. quite clear
that there is a continuation by me on behalf of the Australian
Government and people to use that relationship that we
have with the United States to expound the positions of
China because quite clearly it makes sense of the regional
and global perspectives that one would have to see as far
as one can an improvement in the relations between the
United States-anid China. It is in the interests of the
two countries. It is certainly in our interest that ' understanding
and relationship should improve. And I think my discussions
with the Chinese leadership have left me with the impression
that while there are still some areas of difficulty if
you like that you would have to say that there is I think
a gradual improvement in the relationship between the two
countries and I think that is a very-useful thing.
JOURNALIST: Do you think that the Reagan Administration
has taken advantage of the potential relationship it, could
have with China or do you think it has been a bit. slow?
PM: L think that it will always argue in respect of most
countries with the exception of our own that there could
ha-ve been an earlier and deeper understanding of the significance
of what is happening in China. I think I have said to some
of you before that as far as the United States generally
and not just the Administration that I am somewhat surprised
to government that there hadn't been an earlier
understanding of the dimension anid the significance of
the changes that are taking place in China. I think therefore
it is true to say of the Administration that perhaps that
has been a little slower than one would have expected.
But now it is the case 1 think that the United States
Administration does have a clear picture of the importance
of these changes. Anid at the level of not only the
Administration but 1 think the American business community
there is a growing perception of the importance of China.
So my view is yes, perhaps some original tardiness in perception
but I think i~ t is fairly clear now.
.1rUrA. LS1Mr Hawke, when you were in Japan did you alert the
Japanese leadership of the prospect of a significant
upgrading of Australia's ties with China on this visit
and if so what was their reaction?
PM: I don't know that alert is the right word. I think
if there were any attempt to make a secret of my perception
of the importance of Australia's relations with China and
my commitment to upgrade them it would have to be the worst
kept secret of all time. And so I was quite straight forward
in my discussions with the Japanese in letting them know
the importance that we attach to this relationship, our
intention to strengthen that relationship and that was
I think welcomed by Mr Nakasone and in fact he pointed
out to me the importance that he and his Government attach
to China. He said Further that he thought that the relationship
between China and Japan was improving and further he asked
me to convey his best wishes to the Chinese leadership
which I did.
JOURNALIST: Just going back to the question of Indonesia.
Do you think that the increasing warmth that the relationship
with China coming after the problems Australia has had
with Indonesia recently could be misinterpreted in Indonesia
and could aggravate the difficulties......
PM: I don't think so Michelle, I think there is a clear
enough understanding that what has happened in the Australian
/ Indonesian-relationship has been at the government to
Government level initiated by the Indonesians and not by
Australia. So if there have been changes and of course
there have been then they understand that the responsibility
at a government to government level fo~ r those changes rests
with the Indonesian Government. They do not and cannot
expect that I am going to, on behalf of the Australian
Government, conduct relations with other countries on the
basis of whether. Indonesia will. have some reaction to those
developments-which I see as intrinsically important for
Australia's interests and nor have I had that intention.
As far as I am concerned the reasons for the work that
we are putting into developing the Australia/ China relation
are clear, they are correct, they will remain relevant
into the foreseeable future and we will therefore pursue
those interests for those correct reasons. They are not
being pursued with any intention of setting off that relationship
against another country whether it be Japan, if you remember
I was asked that question at the conference in Tokyo. It
has not been done for that reason nor has it been done
for some compensatory reason.... Indonesian relationship.
It is simply the fact that by any sensible and intelligent
appraisal of Australia's interests we must see what is
happening in China as a fundamental importance. It is in
the . best interests of Australia, China, the region and
globally that we do what we can to strengthen the relationship.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, at the end of the week in China
what are your views about the workability of Communism as a
system of Government? Do you think it would work in Australia
today?
PM: Well, what I think, the most useful way of answering a
question which I think if I may so, an important question
is not in a sense my percpetion, not immediately, I'll come
to it but rather the perception of the Chinese themselves,
I. think it's fair to say that the Chinese leadership, which is
now quite clearly extends, you know, throughout the Country,
when I talk about the Chinese leadership I'm not talking simply
about Chairman Deng, General-Secretary Hu Yao-Bang, Premier
Zhou or Secretary H-u Qi Li but quite clearly the case is now
that the leadership throughout China at all-levels has accepted
and embraced the concepts that have been espoused by the central
leadership, so, ( I put that in bi-parenthesis) the Chinese
leadership, in that sense, have demonstrated an admirable
flexibility in their concepts of socialism. I think it's
important, first of all, to make the point that there remains
a committment to certain basic principles of socialism as they
see them and that is firstly, that major areas of the economy,
as I think I said to one or two of you on the plane, if you
use the language of the commanding heights of
the economy, I think they remain committed to the view that
those should be totally retained within the area of public
ownership and direction, and as far as the ownership of land
is concerned, basically, that should remain within public
ownership. Now, within a committment to those basic concepts,
they have demonstrated a continuing flexibility as to the
administration of the economy without being exhaustive about
it let's pick up these elements. They see as significant a
continuing devolution of responsibility for decision-making
to the level of the enterprise. Where previously direction
as to types of activity, levels of investment and rewards for
participants there is this now increasing devolution
of that decision-making to the enterprise. That they can,
instead of all the profit of the enterprise just being taken
by the centre, they will be able to make decisions on how
they use that profit in terms of new investment, in terms of
degrees of reward to those engaged in the enterprise and so on.
They are also moving much ' More to indirect forms of translating
the central objectives rather than direct forms of control and
the concept of incentive is being extended now from the rural
economy where it's being outstandingly successful, that's being
extended increasingly to the urban economy. Now associated
with that is-a committment to continuation and extension of the
open door, utilisation of * the technology, the capital of the
West, particularly in an increasing number of joint ventures,
so that this flexibility which they are demonstrating shows
that they abandon, if you like, an earlier and sterile committment.
to the rigidities of Marxist-Leninist dogma. So, I think the
important answer to your question is that they have shown
considerable flexibility. They would still say that this a
flaw of socialism adapted to the needs of China and I think
they mean that and they have that committment. The important
thing from the point of view of Australia, and I believe of
the World community, is that the flexibility that they are
showing, means a committment to co-operation with the rest
of the World. The quite damaging closing off of one-quarter
of the World's population which had characterised an earlier
period before the ' reforms of the sixth five year plan and
now into the seventh five year plan, that's come to an end.
It was obviously deleterious for the World that that large
proportion of it's population was closed off. Secondly,
it is tremendously important, I believe, for the rest of the
World that they, the leadership of China, sees an internationally
and regionally peaceful environment as the fundamental condition
for the achievement of their reforms. They understand quite
clearly that it will not be possible to reach or surpass the
targets they have set themselves for the rest of this century
and into the first half of the twenty-first century, if there
is not World peace. And so, you're going to see an increasing
involvement, I believe, of China in the Third World forces in
the relevant international forum, to help to create an environment
of peace. Now I don't believe in any of these things,
either in the way in which they're going about their internal
economic and political reforms or their perceptions of their
place, increasing place, in the World. That they find themselves
constrained by saying, is this in accordance with some preconception
about communism or socialism and I find this extraordinarily
satisfying and reassuring as far as the rest of the
World is concerned. Sorry for the length of the answer but
I hope it picks up the sort of things
JOURNALIST: Mr Hawke, just following on from that, did they
talk at all about possible tensions that may emerge in their
Country as a result of these developments?
PM: I think one of the most refreshing things about listening
to and talking with the Chinese leadership and I think you
know I've had a, as they say, an unparallelled opportunity
both in terms of length and in depth with the leadership of
China, is that they recognise the problems and the constraints
that are involved in what they are about. They don't see it
as a straightforward uncomplicated path. They recognise for all,
both in terms of party organisation anid public education, that
it * will need to be worked on to ensure there is a growing understanding
amongst the people of China as to both the directions
and the purposes of the reforms. I think that what is reassurin g
is that, and I had a better opportunity on this occasion than in
' 84, when you go out to the regions, and we in fact saw, in the
four provinces we met, as I've said, with over a quarter of the
population of China, you can see that there is a reflection at
the regional and lower levels of the leadership of these places,
as you talk not just to governors but to mayors and other
officials and they are enthusiastically going about the task
of not merely implementing a central doctrine, if you like, a
centrally conceived doctrine, they embrace it. Now I think
it' s not just being a question made and saying, well look, they're
saying these things, you can, I think intelligently, apply the
tests about what you hear them saying because you can see, and
it's natural enough, that they appreciate the devolution
of decision-making, the devolution of responsibility. Tihey
are responding to those challenges that are created, you can
see when you're talking to them that they have great p: JAd
in referring to the levels of increase that have taken uL; I-:_ e
in the sixth five year plan, the way in which they are
approaching the task of trying to meet and surpass the sorts
of targets for the future and also what's interesting is
you see the different levels of economic achievement of
economic wealth. For instance, you go to Szechuan' and you
see that, while they were in the forefront of the reforms
in the agricultural area, they are not at the same level of
per capita income as in the prosperous eastern provinces and
they see themselves as having a responsibility of accelerating
the reforms so that they can lift their-people to these high
levels. So, it's clearly not a question of rhetoric, it is
a question of it happenning and happenning, I think, with a
remarkable degree of integration between the centre and the
provinces, and when you think about, how do you run a vast
country like that of a billion people, you know it's mind
boggling and yet it is working with an appropriate degree,
I think, of responsibility between the centre and the regions.
That part of my answer goes to, if you like, the concept of
economic management. I think, at the level of political
organisation, there are conscious plans to see--that the party
mechanisms are developed in a way which reflects the economic
-imperatives as well. Just let me give you this example. Mir
Hu Qi Li was saying to me that the main work that he's now
involved upon is preparing for the meeting in September of
the Congress of the Central Committee, which involves some
320-odd people. Now, what he is doing is getting the documents
prepared f'or that and he said what he wants to do is ensure
that those are prepared as soon as possible so that they can
go out to the provinces and the regions, so that they will
have the opportunity of analysing those documents, which is
looking at the . immediate next period, as to what needs to be
done, so that they will have the opportunity of analysing themd
and by the time they come to the meeting in September, will be
well prepared so that they can make their contributions
of the task their task at the Centre will be to take account
of. what will then be very considerecL--observations for suggested
amendments from representatives around. China and then finalise
for the next period, the-sort of details........ approached.* Now
it seems to me, again I apologise for. the length of the answer
but I think it's relevant to the concept-about " Do you see
problems They are aware of the need to involve leadership
right throughout in the economic reform as the process is so
that there is this degree of involvement, to which I refer.
So, that's what find refreshing, that in a country of the just
unbelievable complexity of a billion people, of that size, with
different levels of development, that they do seem with an
extraordinary degree of intelligence and sensitivity to be making
the sorts of decisions which are necessary to cope with the
undoubted problems that will arise.
I
JOURNALIST: Mr Hawke, will you be indicating to Mrs Aquino
that the Australian Government would like to see American
facilities remain in the Philippines when renegotiation comes up?
PM: I'd be more than happy to answer that question after
I've spoken to Mrs Aq uino. I think it's more appropriate that
I have the discussion with her, but I think you could expect
that, given the position of the Australian Government where
we have made the conscious, deliberate decision to host the
joint facilities for reasons of our perception of their importance
in the global framework of stable mutual deterrents, having
made that decision ourselves, we would see it as appropriate
here. JOURNALIST: Mr Hawke, did the Chinese leadership express to
you the particular concern about Soviet activities in the
Pacific, particularly the South Pacific? If so, what were
the nature of
PM: I did have some discussion with them about this and I
put the view, Jeff, that we did have a concern about this.
We were not exaggerating the nature of the problem and I think
it's fair to say that' s a perception which recommended itself
to the Chinese leadership.
JOURNALIST: What will Australia do to increase our access for
Chinese products, particularly clothing textiles......?
PM: I think these things are relatively said there. Firstly,
we reached agreement, Mike, on establishing a joint ministerial
committee on trade and economic relations. That committee
will not ignore, in fact it will draw upon, the resources currently
involved in the various sectoral areas of co-operation now
existing. On both sides we hear about by senior minister in
the economic area and the purpose of that committee will be
to ensure an adequate coordination of the various economic
initiatives and activity to keep the progress in these areas
under review, to identify projects for concessional finance
and in that way*........ committee will, as part of its responsibilities
try and ensure that, at our end, there is a co-ordination
of the efforts to increase the opportunities of access by
China to our growing import market. So that's the first
general answer. SecondlylI indicated to them that wewill
continue and try and increase the work under the China Action
Plan whereby we provide facilities to China to examine in
detail the structure of our imports and to see what sort of
particular work may need to be done to ensure the appropriateness
and relevance of Chinese products for that market. And
we will I said to them if there is any particular aspects
of that China Action Program to which we ' ye now added quite
a considerable amount of money, if there are any aspects of
that which they, on their examination, would like to see
improved, then we stand ready to receive recommendations from
them and I think it's fair to say, Mike, that they expressed
their satisfaction with the committment of the Australian
Government to these processes. What their position is on the
question of the bilateral trading relationship is this; they
11.
recognise the imbalance that currently exists. They don't
suggest that we can be moving in any immediate way to removing
that imbalance, rather, they want to see a growth in trade,
a significant growth in trade, but within that process of the
growth in trade a relatively greater increase in the level
of exports from China. So that there is, without an elimination
of the gap a narrowing of it.
/ Z
JOURNALIST: Mr Hawke. you are returning to Australia in
a day, have you had or are you planning to have any discussions
with your ministers over the weekend about the issues......
PM: I might be having some phone discussions before I
leave here but Mr Bowen will be meeting me on my return.
I have will have a discussion with him tomorrow night on
my return and then we will be meeting with ministers on
Tuesday. JOURNALIST: Will you be talking with Mr Keating?
PM: Before I leave here?
JOURNALIST: Yes.
PM: I don't think so, I don't know, maybe.
JOURNALIST: I wonder if I could just clarify that prevn' 01.
answer. Can you tell us which economic minister you would
anticipate heading up this from the Australian side and
secondly, on footwear, clothing and textiles can we take
it that what you are saying amounts to a commitment that
protections would : in fact be reduced in the next plan?
PM: I will take the two questions in turn. I have made
no decision in regaird to the minister at this point. Obviously
I will be discussing this whole question with the-Cabinet
when I return and that decision will be made then. As to
the second, what specifically we will be doing on the textile,
clothing and footwear plan for the post-88 period has got
to be decided on the receipt of the final report and the
consideration of the final report by the IAC. We will be
considering that but I have already said publicly as you
will recall, I think it was included in the Nanjing speech,
that clearly the post-88 plan must involve a program of
reduction in protection.
END